EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

[Guest]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

Pot4r I take it you mean this

2) If you pass no money on to the Enforcement Agent, do you inform the agent of any payments made? Do you advise that they need to make their own arrangemnets to collect their fees?

Answer yes and yes

This illustrates Precisely what i am saying.

It starts with a presumption, if you do not pass on the fees, this is the question which you should be asking, you should not presuming it is the case, it may never happen.

It is like the question, have you stopped beating your wife answer yes or no.

The response says nothing that agrees with your case because it refers to an incorrectly phrased question, of course bailiffs are responsible for the collection of there own fees. it is who they are paid to which I presume you are questioning, or are you who knows.

[leclerc]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

Pot4r I take it you mean this

2) If you pass no money on to the Enforcement Agent, do you inform the agent of any payments made? Do you advise that they need to make their own arrangemnets to collect their fees?

Answer yes and yes

This illustrates Precisely what i am saying.

It starts with a presumption, if you do not pass on the fees, this is the question which you should be asking, you should not presuming it is the case, it may never happen.

It is like the question, have you stopped beating your wife answer yes or no.

The response says nothing that agrees with your case because it refers to an incorrectly phrased question, of course bailiffs are responsible for the collection of there own fees. it is who they are paid to which I presume you are questioning, or are you who knows.

what questions should be asked in your opinion since that has been asked?

[Guest]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

Sorry, but you are wrong. Here's another one:

Dear Mr

Re: Request for Information

Thank you for your Freedom of Information request which we received on Thursday 5^th February 2015.

I can confirm that Eastleigh Borough Council does hold the information requested.

The information you requested is as follows:

1. What happens at your Local Authority should a Council Tax account that has been passed
to an Enforcement Agent receive a payment, either a full or part payment, direct from the
debtor?

If a payment is received in relation to a debt that is with the Civil Enforcement Agents for collection they are informed of the change in balance.

2. If you pass no money on to the Enforcement Agent, do you inform the agent of any
payments made? Do you advise that they need to make their own arrangements to collect
their fees?

Civil Enforcement Agents are fully aware of the fees that they can charge Council Tax Payers which are set under legislation and are enforceable.

3. If you pass all or any money onto the Enforcement Agent, please can you show the exact
legislation that compels you to do so, directing me to the specific part?

As advised in question 1, the Civil Enforcements Agents are informed of any changes to balances of any cases in their possession.

4. If there is no such legislation, can you direct me to any policy, contract or service level
agreement you have in place that compels you to pass on direct payments?

We do not pass money over to the Civil Enforcement Agents where there is a balance still due to the Council.

5. If a policy, contract or service level agreement is in place, what legislation or regulation
makes that document legally binding on a defaulter when they have not agreed to its
terms?

Our procedures have been put in place with guidance from the ‘code of conduct and good practice guide for the national standard for enforcement agents’ issued by CIVEA (Civil Enforcement Association) in 2002.

6. Should a defaulter make a direct payment to clear the arrears stated on the account and
receive a receipt, does your Local Authority consider this proof that the original account has
been paid?

We issue receipt’s to Council Tax Payers at their request and this is considered proof of payment which they have made direct to the Council. Where payment is made direct to the Civil Enforcement Agents and there is dispute about payment then we would request a copy of any receipt issued by the Civil Enforcement Agents and take the matter up with them.

7. From where does (or did) your Council Tax collection staff take their training or advice on
the practice of taking direct payments in the circumstances outlined in this
correspondence?

Revenue Staff are in-house trained which includes taking payments from debtors even when the case is with the Civil Enforcement Agents.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any further enquiries regarding your request.

If you wish to make a formal complaint with regards to your information request please contact:

Mr Richard Ward
Head of Legal and Democratic Services
Eastleigh House
Upper Market Street
Hampshire
SO50 9YN
Fax: 023 8068 8122
Email: Richard.ward@eastleigh.gov.uk

If you are unhappy with the way in which your complaint is dealt with then you may apply to the Information Commissioner for a decision. The contact details for the Information Commissioner are:

The Information Commissioners Office
Wycliffe House
Water Lane
Wilmslow
Cheshire
SK9 5AF

Yours sincerely

Nakatiwa Silunyange


Nakatiwa Silunyange
Freedom of Information Officer
Legal and Democratic Services
Eastleigh Borough Council | Eastleigh House | Upper Market Street | Eastleigh | SO50 9YN
023 8068 8285

eastleigh.gov.uk

@EastleighBC

/eastleighbc

No I am not these answers stated to comply with the 2002 guide to enforcment agents not the TCE as I said earlier many authorities have yet to upgrade their systems, the procedure which is currently being used is the TCE and associated regulations.

The giuudence is defunct and presently being reissued, in its modified form.

Again a reason why the requests are less than useless,

[Big Al]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

what questions should be asked in your opinion since that has been asked?

I can't see how I could've been more clearer. The lame argument that Andy58 is now trying - "if" - is ridiculous. The second question is a follow up of the first question. It cannot be asked without the word "if".

[Big Al]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

No I am not these answers stated to comply with the 2002 guide to enforcment agents not the TCE as I said earlier many authorities have yet to upgrade their systems, the procedure which is currently being used is the TCE and associated regulations.

The giuudence is defunct and presently being reissued, in its modified form.

Again a reason why the requests are less than useless,

"We do not pass money over to the Civil Enforcement Agents where there is a balance still due to the Council."

Can't get much clearer than that.

[Big Al]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

Try this one:

Dear Mr *** – I am writing in response to your request for information as set out in the attachment to your email below. I have been provided with the following responses:


1) What happens at your Local Authority should a Council Tax account that has been passed to an Enforcement Agent receive a payment, either a full or part payment, direct from the debtor?

We receive very few direct payments where an enforcement agent has been instructed in respect of the debt. Payments are dealt with by advising the Enforcement Contractor to reduce the debt on their system. We have not had any payments in full and clearly we are unable to prevent a debtor making a payment by automated telephone payment or internet (we do not have a cash office at Broadland). If a payment is received the debtor is advised in writing that all future payments should be made direct to the Enforcement Contractor.

2) If you pass no money on to the Enforcement Agent, do you inform the agent of any payments made? Do you advise that they need to make their own arrangements to collect their fees?

We do not pass on payments to the Enforcement Contractor - they will collect fees direct from the debtor.

3) If you pass all or any money onto the Enforcement Agent, please can you show the exact legislation that compels you to do so, directing me to the specific part?

N/A – see point 2 above

4) If there is no such legislation, can you direct me to any policy, contract or service level agreement you have in place that compels you to pass on direct payments?

N/A

5) If a policy, contract or service level agreement is in place, what legislation or regulation makes that document legally binding on a defaulter when they have not agreed to its terms?

The contractor operates under the legislation to collect the debt for the council. Contractual arrangements are a normal part of the process whereby recovery of the debt is achieved within the framework of the legislation.

6) Should a defaulter make a direct payment to clear the arrears stated on the account and receive a receipt, does your Local Authority consider this proof that the original account has been paid?

Receipts are not issued for Direct Payments.

7) From where does (or did) your Council Tax collection staff take their training or advice on the practice of taking direct payments in the circumstances outlined in this correspondence?

Training is provided internally when any new legislation comes into force.

I trust this response will meet your purposes but if, for whatever reason, you wish to get back to me please feel free to do so. In particular if you are unhappy with the information provided or how your request was handled please make contact and I will explain how you can make a complaint either to the Council or to the Information Commissioner.

Malcolm Black
Admin Manager, Democratic Services, Broadland DC
Ext 2532 or (01603) 430532

bCycling to work can improve your health and is kinder on the environment

This email and any attachments are intended for the addressee only and may be confidential. If they come to you in error you must take no action based on them, nor must you copy or show them to anyone. Please advise the sender by replying to this email immediately and then delete the original from your computer. Unless this email relates to Broadland District Council business it will be regarded by the council as personal and will not be authorised by or sent on behalf of the council. The sender will have sole responsibility for any legal actions or disputes that may arise. We have taken steps to ensure that this email and any attachments are free from known viruses but in keeping with good computing practice, you should ensure they are virus free. Emails sent from and received by members and employees of Broadland District Council may be monitored

[Guest]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

For clarity, Andy has not always believed that if the bailiff doesn't collect, he doesn't get paid. For many months he was shouting from the rooftops that he would be paid regardless. There are posts by him to this effect on this very message board. This is an example of Andy's so called understanding of legislation that he keeps harping on about.

He doesn't seem to understand that applying the correct interpretation of the word proceeds' as per any dictionary is not an error either.

Further evidence of Andy's failure to understand legislation comes in his recent skewed claim about AOE's in which he has claimed both that fees may be added and then that they can't.

[Guest]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

"We do not pass money over to the Civil Enforcement Agents where there is a balance still due to the Council."

Can't get much clearer than that.

I agree, firstly this relates to a procedure under the old system, and secondly, what is the "balance still due to the council" according to the TCE the balance due whilst the debt was under an enforcment power would be the subject of the calculation under section 13( less compliance and pro rata etc).

[Big Al]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

For clarity, Andy has not always believed that if the bailiff doesn't collect, he doesn't get paid. For many months he was shouting from the rooftops that he would be paid regardless. There are posts by him to this effect on this very message board. This is an example of Andy's so called understanding of legislation that he keeps harping on about.

He doesn't seem to understand that applying the correct interpretation of the word proceeds' as per any dictionary is not an error either.

Further evidence of Andy's failure to understand legislation comes in his recent skewed claim about AOE's in which he has claimed both that fees may be added and then that they can't.

Proceeds has been clearly defined in legislation - money from the sale of goods or money taken by the EA. There are no other provisions, none.

[Guest]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

For clarity, Andy has not always believed that if the bailiff doesn't collect, he doesn't get paid. For many months he was shouting from the rooftops that he would be paid regardless. There are posts by him to this effect on this very message board. This is an example of Andy's so called understanding of legislation that he keeps harping on about.

He doesn't seem to understand that applying the correct interpretation of the word proceeds' as per any dictionary is not an error either.

Further evidence of Andy's failure to understand legislation comes in his recent skewed claim about AOE's in which he has claimed both that fees may be added and then that they can't.

here we go resorting to personal abuse when the argument is failing, no idea what you are talking about my opinion on this as never changed as it is based on an understanding of he legislation, however as shown your comprehension skills leave a lot to be desired so you may have misunderstood previous posts.

[Big Al]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

I agree, firstly this relates to a procedure under the old system, and secondly, what is the "balance still due to the council" according to the TCE the balance due whilst the debt was under an enforcment power would be the subject of the calculation under section 13( less compliance and pro rata etc).

Umm... the 'balance still due to the council' would be what you owe the council only.

[leclerc]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

I can't see how I could've been more clearer. The lame argument that Andy58 is now trying - "if" - is ridiculous. The second question is a follow up of the first question. It cannot be asked without the word "if".

If I quote someone then the question is for them and not yourself, BigAl so Andy58 the question I have asked remained unanswered so please can you answer it?

[Big Al]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

'We do not pass on payments to the Enforcement Contractor - they will collect fees direct from the debtor.'

Even clearer methinks.

[Guest]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

He doesn't seem to understand that applying the correct interpretation of the word proceeds' as per any dictionary is not an error either.

.

I will educate you on this matter whilst i have a minute pote.

In legislation, the definition of terms used do not depend on the "dictionary dentition" many if not most words used within legislation have there own meaning within the particular act and this is why there is usually a section which is called definitions.

[Guest]

Re: EA fees and Councils and FOI's discussion

'We do not pass on payments to the Enforcement Contractor - they will collect fees direct from the debtor.'

Even clearer methinks.

I could really go on all day. if you look at the question assosiated with this answer

2) If you pass no money on to the Enforcement Agent, do you inform the agent of any payments made? Do you advise that they need to make their own arrangements to collect their fees?

We do not pass on payments to the Enforcement Contractor - they will collect fees direct from the debtor.

"IF YOU PASS NO MONEY", you are giving the authority a case where they do not pass money, in that case the EA would have to collect there own fees(unless you expect them to work for nothing), but this is not the case.