Ask Bluebottle

[Guest]

Re: Ask Bluebottle

Incidentally, a police officer's primary duty and responsibility is the protection and preservation of life.

Interesting, would this come before the security of the state? and would this be his own or others.

D

[labman]

Re: Ask Bluebottle

What, in your experience, is the police view (I appreciate you can only talk about those of you and your colleagues) of laws in this country which allow someone protecting themselves to be prosecuted for assault?

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Ask Bluebottle

is it true (i got told this at a take that concert) that a policeman cannot accept a soft drink/a cigarette/ a packet of crisps/chocolate bar from a member of the public incase an incident breaks out and they can be classed as accepting a bribe?

I only ask because at said concert, my sister took far too much food, and we offered it to the bobbies for during the concert. The head man took it and thanked us, said it would be appreciated, but that a uniformed constable cannot accept so much as a polo mint! I also offered a policeman who was looking longingly at my ciggies (bad puff shouldnt have been smoking) a cigarette,and he said he wasnt allowed one!

[Bill-K]

Re: Ask Bluebottle

As an ex-taxi-driver, I've had the (dubious) pleasure of PM-ing our BlueBottle on several occasions. We've had some "good craic," and he's certainly one of the 'Old Guard,' IMHO. It's interesting to see the factual replies to those old chestnuts about whether a copper can arrest you if his flies are undone, etc., along with the heavier stuff that many of us feel strongly about - BUT WERE AFRAID TO ASK !!!

Well done for fielding all that, BB. I've learned a lot from this thread, and the questions asked are often very indicative of general public feeling, I believe. Your unbiased replies are invaluable.

With regard to that song, Davy, was it Arthur Askey ? I haven't googled it yet. But I always remember that line from "My Old Man said 'Foller the Van, and don't Dilly-Dally on the Way.'"........"You can't trust the Specials like the old-time Coppers when you can't find your way 'ome !"

And as for DavyB's argumentative posts about what time it is - judging by past form - I reckon the irascible old bugga's spoiling for another punch-up !!! Bless ya, Davy.

[brummie]

Re: Ask Bluebottle

Police officers are Crown Servants, not Public Servants. The office of Constable is an appointment by the Crown. During the Oath of Attestation (Swearing-In), police officers swear allegiance to the Queen and to uphold the Queen's Peace. They also swear to uphold the law and to enforce it without fear or favour, malice or ill-will and to discharge their duty according to law.

Civil Servants are Crown servants, like police officers, but Local Government Officers (LGOs) are Public Servants, as they do not take any oath on taking up their appointments.

but are sworn to duty to serve in their capabilities the public, being the crown's subjects, as are our armed forces. All of our forces are duty-bound to serve the monarch and her subjects......by order.

[brummie]

Re: Ask Bluebottle

In order to charge someone with USI (Unlawful Sexual Intercourse), the girl has to be aged 13 years or over, but under 16 years, and be willing to make a complaint to the police. If the girl is not willing to make a complaint and was not coerced into having sex, it is going to be difficult to successfully prosecute someone for an offence of USI. If coercion has been used, then it is Rape. There are specific offences relating to girls below the age of 13 years and to those who abuse a position of trust, e.g. teachers, care workers. Sexual offences relating to minors are enshrined within the Sexual Offences Act 2003.

so can we divide;the complaint, against being coerced against her will?

[Guest]

Re: Ask Bluebottle

As an ex-taxi-driver, I've had the (dubious) pleasure of PM-ing our BlueBottle on several occasions. We've had some "good craic," and he's certainly one of the 'Old Guard,' IMHO. It's interesting to see the factual replies to those old chestnuts about whether a copper can arrest you if his flies are undone, etc., along with the heavier stuff that many of us feel strongly about - BUT WERE AFRAID TO ASK !!!

Well done for fielding all that, BB. I've learned a lot from this thread, and the questions asked are often very indicative of general public feeling, I believe. Your unbiased replies are invaluable.

With regard to that song, Davy, was it Arthur Askey ? I haven't googled it yet. But I always remember that line from "My Old Man said 'Foller the Van, and don't Dilly-Dally on the Way.'"........"You can't trust the Specials like the old-time Coppers when you can't find your way 'ome !"

And as for DavyB's argumentative posts about what time it is - judging by past form - I reckon the irascible old bugga's spoiling for another punch-up !!! Bless ya, Davy.

Moi!!!

Slandered and stabbed in the back, i believe it was Gilbert and Sullivan, Pirates of Pensance
I remember the " if you want to know the time ask a policeman" song from when we were kids, we got many a clip around the ear from teasing our local bobby about it, luckily BB can't reach me here.

D

[bluebottle]

Re: Ask Bluebottle

"A policeman lot is not a happy one" was another of my favorites.

What time does it say now.

D

You don't know how true that is, Davy.

[bluebottle]

Re: Ask Bluebottle

Interesting, would this come before the security of the state? and would this be his own or others.

D

The protection and preservation of life is still the primary duty and responsibility of a police officer, Davy. It supersedes all other duties and responsibilities. This applies to the officer's own life as well as that of others. There are many brave officers who have made the ultimate sacrifice protecting the lives of others. The two officers in Greater Manchester who lost their lives recently are a prime, but tragic, example of this.

[bluebottle]

Re: Ask Bluebottle

Moi!!!

Slandered and stabbed in the back, i believe it was, Gilbert and Sullivan, pirates of penance
I remember the " if you want to know the time ask a policeman" song from when we were kids, we got many a clip around the ear from teasing our local bobby about it, luckily BB can't reach me here.

D

I can always put my detective's hat on, Davy. Lol!

[bluebottle]

Re: Ask Bluebottle

so can we divide;the complaint, against being coerced against her will?

As stated, the girl has to make a complaint before the police can act. However, if it is a case that involves a person who holds a position of trust, like, a teacher, then a complaint is not required, just a report. It is an offence for a person holding a position of trust to abuse that position by having a sexual relationship with a person under 18 years. Coercion can amount to Indecent Assault or Rape. If there is an absence of consent, it is Rape or Attempted Rape. If the girl is under 13 years at the time of the offence, it is Rape per se.

[bluebottle]

Re: Ask Bluebottle

but are sworn to duty to serve in their capabilities the public, being the crown's subjects, as are our armed forces. All of our forces are duty-bound to serve the monarch and her subjects......by order.

This is the current Oath of Attestation under the Police Reform Act 2002. The wording has changed since I took it some years ago -

I, ... of ... do solemnly and sincerely declare and affirm that I will well and truly serve the Queen in the office of constable, with fairness, integrity, diligence and impartiality, upholding fundamental human rights and according equal respect to all people; and that I will, to the best of my power, cause the peace to be kept and preserved and prevent all offences against people and property; and that while I continue to hold the said office I will to the best of my skill and knowledge discharge all the duties thereof faithfully according to law.

[bluebottle]

Re: Ask Bluebottle

is it true (i got told this at a take that concert) that a policeman cannot accept a soft drink/a cigarette/ a packet of crisps/chocolate bar from a member of the public incase an incident breaks out and they can be classed as accepting a bribe?

I only ask because at said concert, my sister took far too much food, and we offered it to the bobbies for during the concert. The head man took it and thanked us, said it would be appreciated, but that a uniformed constable cannot accept so much as a polo mint! I also offered a policeman who was looking longingly at my ciggies (bad puff shouldnt have been smoking) a cigarette,and he said he wasnt allowed one!

What the head man said is absolutely correct, Puff. Also, police officers are not permitted to smoke on duty and, in particular, whilst in uniform.

[bluebottle]

Re: Ask Bluebottle

What, in your experience, is the police view (I appreciate you can only talk about those of you and your colleagues) of laws in this country which allow someone protecting themselves to be prosecuted for assault?

It is all a matter of what constitutes reasonable force, Labman. You are allowed to use as much reasonable force as it necessary to protect your person or property. What force you use will depend on the circumstances. Say, for example, a bailiff turns up at your house, throwing their weight about and they have no lawful reason or right to be there. They then try to make forcible entry and you block their path. That is reasonable force. They then try to physically move you out of the way and you punch them in the solar plexus, winding them. Again, reasonable force. However, if you had grabbed a heavy object and bashed them across the head with it, rendering them unconscious and wounding them, then you might some explaining to do as it could be a disproportionate use of force. But this is where the law becomes a bit of an ass. If the bailiff is built like the proverbial brick outhouse door, does weightlifting and you are physically smaller and weaker, bashing him across the head with a heavy object could amount to reasonable force.

The unfortunate fact is, Labman, every case is judged on its individual circumstances. The reality of people being prosecuted for defending themselves against assaults and unlawful entry to property by certificated bailiffs is a matter of considerable concern. Bailiffs should not receive preferential treatment. The chief judge for the Plymouth area, Paul Darrow, has stated that he favours an inquisitorial system of justice, as opposed to the adversarial system that is currently in use in England and Wales, as this enables the court to find out exactly what happened and then decide from that whether there is any case to answer. This system is used in a number of Mainland European countries.

[Guest]

Re: Ask Bluebottle

This is the current Oath of Attestation under the Police Reform Act 2002. The wording has changed since I took it some years ago -

I, ... of ... do solemnly and sincerely declare and affirm that I will well and truly serve the Queen in the office of constable, with fairness, integrity, diligence and impartiality, upholding fundamental human rights and according equal respect to all people; and that I will, to the best of my power, cause the peace to be kept and preserved and prevent all offences against people and property; and that while I continue to hold the said office I will to the best of my skill and knowledge discharge all the duties thereof faithfully according to law.

Not much of the above here BB http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...yside-19710415

D