Tuesday 8th July - Latest News on the OFT v Banks Test Case

[Amethyst]

Re: Tuesday 8th July - Latest News on the OFT v Banks Test Case

BBC NEWS BBC NEWS | Business | Decision awaited on historic fees

Decision awaited on historic fees


The latest hearing has been heard in the High Court

A High Court judge is to take time considering his decision in the latest stage of the case into the fairness of bank overdraft charges.
Judge Mr Andrew Justice Smith decided at the end of a three-day hearing that no immediate ruling would be made regarding banks' historic fees.
The session heard arguments on whether charges going back for years can be challenged by bank customers.
It is the latest stage in the dispute over the fairness of overdraft fees.
Tens of thousands of claims for the refund of bank charges have been frozen in the county courts since the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) and eight banks agreed on a test case to clarify the situation.
The OFT has been seeking legal confirmation that it can rule if bank overdraft charges of up to £35 are fair or not.
But the banks, which provide about 90% of the UK's current accounts, are aiming to protect the estimated £3.5bn a year of income they generate from charging customers who go overdrawn without permission.
They are already appealing against the judge's initial ruling - that the OFT can assess whether fees are unfair.
That only related to current agreements between the banks and their customers.
After the latest hearing, the judge said he would consider the arguments on whether fees levied historically could be assessed for fairness but did not set a date on when he would make a decision.
The entire legal process is expected to last several more months.

[Amethyst]

Re: Tuesday 8th July - Latest News on the OFT v Banks Test Case

edited post #58

[pipeline]

Re: Tuesday 8th July - Latest News on the OFT v Banks Test Case

many thanks, this is really helpful

[borgbaiter]

Re: Tuesday 8th July - Latest News on the OFT v Banks Test Case

edited post #58

Better than the BBC well done A*


Borgbaiter

[Amethyst]

Re: Tuesday 8th July - Latest News on the OFT v Banks Test Case

lol yeyyyy my first A *

Cheers Borg.

The arguments in court are so technically worded its hard to get it into some semblance of PIL. Hopefully all the main points are there. If any bits are unclear to anyone please don't be afraid to ask.

[EXC]

Re: Tuesday 8th July - Latest News on the OFT v Banks Test Case

That's spot on Ame but it was the banks who wanted the orphan charges leaflets treated as 'explainatory' documents as opposed to contractual so to avoid the breach of contact argument. The judge viewed that they should be treated as contractual.

As to when he hands down his judment on historicals he actually said judgment would be ''sooner than last time'' which was 3 months.

It would appear that if the OFT win on penalties, the judge seems to think that could be ''a useful tool'' to county court judges to consider lifting the stays.

Still no decision has been made in the latest part of the high court test case between the OFT and the Banks.

The court has been hearing the OFT's submissions that certain clauses in historical (those prior to November 2007) terms and conditions may be deemed as penalty clauses.

The Judge has indicated his intention to make a declaration on historical fees and their applicability under the UTCCR fairness principles as well as the penalty charges aspects. He expects this declaration to be made within the next three months.

He has already made a decision that current terms may be assessed under fairness principles, and may not be deemed as penalties. The decision relating to the UTCCR is being appealed by the Banks.

The Banks have also already indicated their intention to appeal the ruling made with regards historical terms. The appeals should be held at the same time and a window of end October beginning November has been put forward by the Court of Appeal. The Banks wanted the appeals to be heard seperately and this month as the Court of Appeal had agreed - however the OFT have indicated they are not ready for the appeal, and the Judge wishes all aspects under Appeal to be heard together.


The Judge stated one of the reasons he is holding off on a declaration of the read over of his UTCCR judgement on current terms, to historical terms. as being technicalities of the wording in the declaration. He has concerns over the multitude of leaflets, charge guides and 'promotional literature', that may or may not be deemed part of the agreement.

He is concerned that the county courts would have difficulties applying his declaration as it stands with banks claiming the leaflets price lists and guides are part of the T&Cs but not covered by the judgement, so hes just covering all angles for the good of the consumer.

The banks are writing a proposed forumla of wording to give to the Judge by tomorrow, Thursday 10th July.

He has also asked the OFT for a commitment to bring out the PCA by the end of July. As previously mentioned this should be submitted for redacting on or around the 24th July.

It does appear from what was said in court that the UTCCR's will apply to historic terms across the board, and it also appeared the Judge was in agreement with the OFT over those penalty charge clauses in historic terms that were submitted. These will be detailed in the next judgement.

I am very hopeful that claims based on historic terms will be able to proceed from the time of the declaration, under both penalty charge and UTCCR fairness arguments.

I think it's a given that his declaration on the readover of the fainess assessment judgment to historicals will go the OFTs way. The judge wanted any appeal to it dealt with at the Court of Appeal when they appeal the current terms in Oct/Nov but the banks want it held separately and so will seek leave to appeal when the declaration is handed down.

[Amethyst]

Re: Tuesday 8th July - Latest News on the OFT v Banks Test Case

not so bad then :kiss: Thank you for attending every day and keeping us informed, every one here really appreciates it, and have a lovely holiday xxx

[Mochamoo]

Re: Tuesday 8th July - Latest News on the OFT v Banks Test Case

If any bits are unclear to anyone please don't be afraid to ask.

Ermmmm.... All of it! lol!

IS this going to be one of thoses cases that is stuck in the systems for years and years and years?

I will wait for the dummys guide to the case comes out :embarassed:

[Amethyst]

Re: Tuesday 8th July - Latest News on the OFT v Banks Test Case

I don't think it will be years and years and years - but I would be suprised if its all done and dusted before Christmas.

I should think the waivers would be lifted at least in part November time. hopefully before then, maybe next month, the FSA will get some kind of decent definition of hardship so at least the people in most need can get things moving.

Or is that all a bit optimistic ?

[EXC]

Re: Tuesday 8th July - Latest News on the OFT v Banks Test Case

I think it's quite possible some stays will be lifted as a result of the judgment on historical penalties. The judge made a lot of the fact that the declaration must be worded in a way that will assist county court judges on whether to proceed with the cases.

It will only need a handful of cases to un-stay to get the waiver lifted as a blanket stay for all litigation is a condition of the waiver.
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Based on the judge's body language as well as his words, I'd say we'll have a judgment in around 6 weeks

[tomterm8]

Re: Tuesday 8th July - Latest News on the OFT v Banks Test Case

So, basically, nowt happened.

Edit: forgot to thank EXC for his great work

[TANZARELLI]

Re: Tuesday 8th July - Latest News on the OFT v Banks Test Case

not so bad then :kiss: Thank you for attending every day and keeping us informed, every one here really appreciates it, and have a lovely holiday xxx

I'll second that, thanks EXC you've been a star.

[righty]

Re: Tuesday 8th July - Latest News on the OFT v Banks Test Case

excellent thread Thanks

[scottishlass]

Re: Tuesday 8th July - Latest News on the OFT v Banks Test Case

not so bad then :kiss: Thank you for attending every day and keeping us informed, every one here really appreciates it, and have a lovely holiday xxx

Totally agree thank you EXC most appreciated.

Hope you have a lovely holiday SL xxx
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not so bad then :kiss: Thank you for attending every day and keeping us informed, every one here really appreciates it, and have a lovely holiday xxx

Totally agree thank you EXC most appreciated.

Hope you have a lovely holiday SL xxx
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

Ermmmm.... All of it! lol!

IS this going to be one of thoses cases that is stuck in the systems for years and years and years?

I will wait for the dummys guide to the case comes out :embarassed:

Thank goodness you said that first Mocha lol

I was too much of a coward to admit I didn't understand

and sorry about the post above don't know what happened there and can someone explain how to do multi quotes in easy to understand terms please

[enaid]

Re: Tuesday 8th July - Latest News on the OFT v Banks Test Case

and sorry about the post above don't know what happened there and can someone explain how to do multi quotes in easy to understand terms please

Your Edit, Quote buttons are followed by 2 little paper and pencil signs the 1st one nearest the quote is the multi quote button. click on it on the posts you want to quote till you get to the last one then press quote and you should be ok.