OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

[Amethyst]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

Also wanted to add that the OFT have said that if the Judgment is in favour of the banks they will be looking at the charges under competition rules, so its by no means ''D Day'' to quote "This is Money".

[natweststaffmember]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

Also wanted to add that the OFT have said that if the Judgment is in favour of the banks they will be looking at the charges under competition rules, so its by no means ''D Day'' to quote "This is Money".

Absolutely and this was covered in Day Three of the House of Lords Appeal. The Banks' winning may not be the end of the matter because they are still concerned by the interplay of charges ie one charge triggers another one.

[shooter]

Re: OFT Test Case on Bank Charges update - Supreme Court Judgment coming soon !

If there is no referral to the ECJ(only the court can do that), the banks' fail in their appeal, then we move onto secondary issues or what is called the Substantive issues.

Anyone got any Ideas how long the next part will take??

Shooter

[natweststaffmember]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

"That may be a convenient moment to answer a question
21 which I left over from yesterday from my Lord Mance as
22 to the extent to which the OFT could pursue a fairness
23 assessment of the relevant terms, even if this appeal
24 succeeds and the OFT's case fails.
25 The position that the OFT takes on that is that, in
110
1 light of the accumulation of factors one has just been
2 going through in paragraph 81, the OFT's position is
3 that the assessment that the relevant charges are unfair
4 based on the matters that presently cause it concern
5 would not be excluded by article 4(2), even if
6 your Lordships were to conclude that the charges are the
7 price for services supplied in exchange within the
8 meaning of the exemption."

Amethysts point, day 3 House of Lords Appeal, page 109-110

[davidl]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

wouldent it be funny if the test case went the way of the banks or the outcome of the oft's investiagtion found that bank charges were fair all this waiting around and he/she said this and years of campaining for nothing it scares me even thinking about it!

[natweststaffmember]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

wouldent it be funny if the test case went the way of the banks or the outcome of the oft's investiagtion found that bank charges were fair all this waiting around and he/she said this and years of campaining for nothing it scares me even thinking about it!

Well, they have already said that they believe them to be unfair so your point is not particularly that relevant to be honest. Nice post btw cos I thought for a nanosecond you were being serious

[davidl]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

Natwest staff member i just have this niggling fear in the back of my mind that we will lose hope not though for obvious reasons.

[shooter]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

"That may be a convenient moment to answer a question
21 which I left over from yesterday from my Lord Mance as
22 to the extent to which the OFT could pursue a fairness
23 assessment of the relevant terms, even if this appeal
24 succeeds and the OFT's case fails.
25 The position that the OFT takes on that is that, in
110
1 light of the accumulation of factors one has just been
2 going through in paragraph 81, the OFT's position is
3 that the assessment that the relevant charges are unfair
4 based on the matters that presently cause it concern
5 would not be excluded by article 4(2), even if
6 your Lordships were to conclude that the charges are the
7 price for services supplied in exchange within the
8 meaning of the exemption."

Amethysts point, day 3 House of Lords Appeal, page 109-110

Nattie just wondering if this was in answer to my question cause if so I don't get it.

I was asking cause like everyone else was wondering is it will be this decade or next?

shooter

[Amethyst]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

We have in many ways already won... look at the massive changes in many areas of the finance industry since this began full swing in 2006, due in part to the credit Card Default charges investigation by the OFT and the huge profile legal case that Stephen Hone took at the end of 2005 which was settled out of court. Increased regulation and guidance from the regulators and the OFT. Consumers awareness of many other areas is much greater now too, due in part to the publicity of the bank charges issues and the growth of consumer forums. How many people do we see come here to ask for help reclaiming charges who then go on to sort out bailiffs, reposession and massive debt problems.

If we 'lose' in court we have managed to change the future of banking for the better and that is something we should all be very proud of.

Have to say I'm still stuck 50/50 on the judgment being one way or t'other.

[Amethyst]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

shooter - no one really knows, the banks could agree with the oft and voluntarily pay people back or they could fight tooth and nail and drag it out another year.

[natweststaffmember]

Re: OFT Test Case on Bank Charges update - Supreme Court Judgment coming soon !

Anyone got any Ideas how long the next part will take??

Shooter

Very difficult to answer the question without having a response to the first part. If the Banks' win the appeal then that could be the end of the reclaiming issue but it might not be the end.

[shooter]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

Thanks for that Ame
Just though someone more knowledgeable than me would have an Idea of the time scales involved.
Suppose we'll just have to hope that the banks give in although I can't see that happening after they have gone this far.

[Amethyst]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

nope, we're all in the dark till 9.48am Wednesday


Anyone fancies a refresher in the arguments put forward and to get a feel of what the judges are looking at have a read of the Transcripts from the House of Lords hearings - Legal Beagles - very worthwhile and quite amusing in places

[EXC]

Re: OFT Test Case on Bank Charges update - Supreme Court Judgment coming soon !

If there is no referral to the ECJ(only the court can do that)

I don't think there can be a referral to the European Courts of Justice now.

The Supreme Court have announced that ''judgment will be given....''. And in concluding the appeal hearing Lord Phillips said ''The Committee is grateful to counsel for their submissions and, subject to the possibility of a reference to Europe, will report their opinions to the House in due course.''

[EXC]

Re: OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

One thing that we do know is going to happen after the judgment is what the OFT told the banks last month - they they expect to make ''substantive comments'' on the issue of charges.