The EU referendum

[des8]

Re: The EU referendum

Des having lived in wales not far from you for 11 years I know that some welsh do not like some English had plenty of experience with that the Poles at that time worked in a West wales abbatoir plenty of problems in that town as I remember now I expect there are more and the problems may have increased.
Foreign workers seem to have a different work ethic to UK workers that may be a good reason they get the crap menial low paid jobs .

We all know people of other nationalities and religions they are NOT all bad as with the English fans in France a few mess it up for the majority.

For info im only half welsh I use this user name in memory of my mum

Corrected your post for you
I was tongue in cheek for parts of my post.
And I'm told (not having lived there since 1988) that Llanybydder is "well Polish"!!

[PAWS]

Re: The EU referendum

I wasn't going to comment on this story but.......


You know the whole migration debate reminds me of Enoch Powell’s comments when the citizens of the commonwealth first began to arrive in the UK. The fact that they supplied the labour required to rebuild a war torn country mattered little. The fact that they were mostly born citizens of the British Empire mattered even less. Now the sugar, rubber and precious stones were no longer being taken from their lands neither they nor their families were wanted.
General opinion, fuelled by the xenophobic press and ignorant scaremongering resulted in shocking racism. This included signs specifically excluding Black people from lodging houses (along with the Irish and DOGS!) and Black or Asian men being FALSELY accused of crimes especially those against women.
Are these the ‘good old days’ we want? Accusing foreigners of all that ails the UK sounds a little too ‘Nuremberg ’ for my liking.


But there is hope….


If the UK leave Gove will be able to reaffirm his love of the death penalty so he can ‘adiós’ all the rapists. I just remembered all the British people who have been jailed abroad for rape, murder and hooliganism-Perhaps it is only when abroad one feels the urge to commit a crime.


Oh and yes, much of the above is laced with sarcasm and comments which may upset but as I am European and not originally from this country I had better get used to that! Perhaps we should all wear a badge or something so innocents will be warned and avoid us until we can be rounded up and booted out. Well, it worked so well the last time. Remember when another leader blamed the economic failures and crime on foreigners.?

[Guest]

Re: The EU referendum

Which leader was that, there have been so many of them.

That twerp in America seems to be the latest one

[PAWS]

Re: The EU referendum

This one is going back a bit -say to 1933 in Germany!

I am just a bit annoyed that the media and then the leave campaign leaders have waved this awful crime around as though it was a ‘positive’ thing.
Of the ten’s of thousands of rapes reported every year how come this one made such headlines?
All victims and perpetrators of rape should be treated the same regardless of nationality, race or religion. Because of the nature of the crime most victims, especially those under the age of 16 would probably prefer it was not splashed all over the media or used as a tool to stir up xenophobic outrage. It should never be used simply to strengthen a political campaign.
The number of reported rapes has gone up but according to the rape crisis centre the overall figure has not significantly increased and many of the people they help were raped years ago and only now, due to the changes in police attitudes are more people reporting rape and/or sexual assaults both current and historical
The truth is that more children -and by that I mean girls and boys under the age of 16 -were raped before migrants were ‘invading’ the UK.

[enaid]

Re: The EU referendum

I have another question.
The farming subsidies, am I right in thinking they are paid to farmers to control what the farmers produce?

I think it should be left to the farmers to control what they produce, I would think they know best on the matter and would only produce what would help them prosper.
May be wrong but it's just what makes sense to me.

Like Greece has it's olives (and very little else ) as far as I know, do they get subsidies?

[pt2537]

Re: The EU referendum

The biggest problem is that people voting for leave are voting for the unknown, and of course for Boris as prime minister. Im not sure really what is worst but hey ho.

The economists have all predicted a recession if we leave, indeed the global markets are already showing signs of trouble.

If we leave then the workers rights which we all enjoy, such as paid holiday, paternity leave, etc will all be at risk as patel and gove have already said that they want to reduce these rights.

If we leave the EU it has already been made clear that we leave it all not just the EU but the single market too and to those who are claiming we can stay in the EEA newsflash, to be in the EEA you have to follow EU Law but you have no vote on the decision making process.

Lets not forget that Albania was used by the leave camp as an example of how they want things to work.

Personally, i use many of the EU legislation to fight for consumers, the bank charges case in Foster burnell could never have succeeded without our membership of the EU as it was an ECJ case that brought about the result.

Also lets not forget that at present we have the channel tunnel which is policed by the french at Calais, the French government have already made it clear if we leave t hen the migrant camps etc become our problem.People worry about immigration now, well there is no evidence to show beyond doubt that we will have better control of immigration if we leave.

I really cannot see what we will benefit from if we leave.

[enaid]

Re: The EU referendum

So you are basically better the devil you know?

I believe we need to get our own house in order, for every legislation that has been in our favour there must be dozens that hinder or are of no practical use to us.
I can't see the point of being part of a club that's practically on it's knees. I know that has a lot to do with the Euro, but does that not prove often bigger is not always best.
I do not think much can get worse for us re housing, schools, NHS, and industry and on industry no one will convince me if we have something worth selling no one will buy it.
I feel we need a clean break to sort out our own and how do we know that staying in is the better, when we actually do not know if things would have been better had we never joined in the first place.

[christinez]

Re: The EU referendum

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about June 23rd, and people want to know the facts.
Here are some:
You are not voting to leave the EEA or WTO, meaning all of the UK's trade and benefit agreements will remain unchanged should we leave, until such a time that the UK decides to renegotiate them for any reason.
You are not voting to leave NATO, meaning our security agreements remain unchanged. Should we receive an act of hostility from a non-NATO member, then NATO countries are obliged to come to our assistance. This does not change.
You are not voting to leave the UN, G8 or G20, meaning Britain will have the same voice on the world stage as it does today.
You are not voting to leave Europe!! The UK will still, geographically, be part of Europe. Non political organisations aligned to Europe will still extend membership to the UK (I.e. sports governing bodies, and so on).
You are not voting to stop recognising Interpol, Europol and neither are you voting for SIS / MI6 to stop dealing with other intelligence services in the fight against terrorism and global, organised crime.
You are not voting against being able to travel to Europe, contrary to the belief of some fools recently on TV. The UK has always maintained stricter border and passport controls than many EU members. This will not change. You will still use a passport to go on holiday and you will still be allowed entry to countries in Europe. You may even get chance to skip queues by using the non--EU queues at the airport (the only point so far that is my opinion, and not necessarily a fact).
The UK economy will benefit to the tune of £billions in the first year after we leave.
Medical and science research will not simply stop. The UK pays into the EU to then get money back in the form of funding. The UK will now be in control of this money and can choose to fund whatever UK based medical, science, art or other research it chooses.
Farming will not lose money because of EU funding being cut. The UK negotiated a rebate of some monies that the UK pays to the EU, in order to subsidise UK farmers. Instead of asking for our money back, we can give it straight to farmers. No change there.
You are not voting against human rights. The EU Convention on, and European Court of Human Rights are not part of the EU. Until parliament passes a new bill of rights for the UK, these will still apply, as will precedents already passed down to UK courts from Brussels.
You are not voting to kick anyone out of the UK or block access to anyone. Neither are you voting to stop recruiting valuable European workers into things like the NHS.
Like my other point about passports for travel, the UK is already outside of the Schengen zone and so migrant workers must enter the UK with a valid passport before and after June 23rd. That will not change.
British borders maintain full control of who comes and goes. Should someone have the skills to apply to work in the NHS, then they will still be permitted travel and given an opportunity to apply for a job. Worst case, points based assessment, like the US, Canada and Australia use, will come into effect.
The UK is likely to negotiate freedom of labour movement though, in exchange for freedom of goods movement.
You are not voting to move jobs nor production out of the UK! The EU actually helped fund the move of Ford Transit production from the UK to Turkey... Yes, the EU helped give UK jobs to people in Turkey by giving Ford a loan of £80m with very generous terms!
What you are voting for is UK sovereignty. You are voting to stay in or leave a political union of leaders and representatives that you British people did not elect.
You are voting against a commission of unelected, elite men that nobody at all voted for and yet they make decisions on our behalf.
You are simply voting to bring sovereignty back to Westminster, and that is all. If you worry about that because you don't like the Conservative government, look at the reality. Their majority in parliament is very slim. They have been blocked on big decisions already. You are therefore not giving sovereignty to David Cameron, but to the UK House of elected representatives.
Do not be fooled by the fear campaigns that are simply run by the wealthy, who need EU money to thrive! Think about the future, and your family's future.

[pt2537]

Re: The EU referendum

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about June 23rd, and people want to know the facts.
Here are some:
You are not voting to leave the EEA or WTO, meaning all of the UK's trade and benefit agreements will remain unchanged should we leave, until such a time that the UK decides to renegotiate them for any reason.
You are not voting to leave NATO, meaning our security agreements remain unchanged. Should we receive an act of hostility from a non-NATO member, then NATO countries are obliged to come to our assistance. This does not change.
You are not voting to leave the UN, G8 or G20, meaning Britain will have the same voice on the world stage as it does today.
You are not voting to leave Europe!! The UK will still, geographically, be part of Europe. Non political organisations aligned to Europe will still extend membership to the UK (I.e. sports governing bodies, and so on).
You are not voting to stop recognising Interpol, Europol and neither are you voting for SIS / MI6 to stop dealing with other intelligence services in the fight against terrorism and global, organised crime.
You are not voting against being able to travel to Europe, contrary to the belief of some fools recently on TV. The UK has always maintained stricter border and passport controls than many EU members. This will not change. You will still use a passport to go on holiday and you will still be allowed entry to countries in Europe. You may even get chance to skip queues by using the non--EU queues at the airport (the only point so far that is my opinion, and not necessarily a fact).
The UK economy will benefit to the tune of £billions in the first year after we leave.
Medical and science research will not simply stop. The UK pays into the EU to then get money back in the form of funding. The UK will now be in control of this money and can choose to fund whatever UK based medical, science, art or other research it chooses.
Farming will not lose money because of EU funding being cut. The UK negotiated a rebate of some monies that the UK pays to the EU, in order to subsidise UK farmers. Instead of asking for our money back, we can give it straight to farmers. No change there.
You are not voting against human rights. The EU Convention on, and European Court of Human Rights are not part of the EU. Until parliament passes a new bill of rights for the UK, these will still apply, as will precedents already passed down to UK courts from Brussels.
You are not voting to kick anyone out of the UK or block access to anyone. Neither are you voting to stop recruiting valuable European workers into things like the NHS.
Like my other point about passports for travel, the UK is already outside of the Schengen zone and so migrant workers must enter the UK with a valid passport before and after June 23rd. That will not change.
British borders maintain full control of who comes and goes. Should someone have the skills to apply to work in the NHS, then they will still be permitted travel and given an opportunity to apply for a job. Worst case, points based assessment, like the US, Canada and Australia use, will come into effect.
The UK is likely to negotiate freedom of labour movement though, in exchange for freedom of goods movement.
You are not voting to move jobs nor production out of the UK! The EU actually helped fund the move of Ford Transit production from the UK to Turkey... Yes, the EU helped give UK jobs to people in Turkey by giving Ford a loan of £80m with very generous terms!
What you are voting for is UK sovereignty. You are voting to stay in or leave a political union of leaders and representatives that you British people did not elect.
You are voting against a commission of unelected, elite men that nobody at all voted for and yet they make decisions on our behalf.
You are simply voting to bring sovereignty back to Westminster, and that is all. If you worry about that because you don't like the Conservative government, look at the reality. Their majority in parliament is very slim. They have been blocked on big decisions already. You are therefore not giving sovereignty to David Cameron, but to the UK House of elected representatives.
Do not be fooled by the fear campaigns that are simply run by the wealthy, who need EU money to thrive! Think about the future, and your family's future.

Nonsense!!!

[pt2537]

Re: The EU referendum

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about June 23rd, and people want to know the facts.
Here are some:
You are not voting to leave the EEA or WTO, meaning all of the UK's trade and benefit agreements will remain unchanged should we leave, until such a time that the UK decides to renegotiate them for any reason.
You are not voting to leave NATO, meaning our security agreements remain unchanged. Should we receive an act of hostility from a non-NATO member, then NATO countries are obliged to come to our assistance. This does not change.
You are not voting to leave the UN, G8 or G20, meaning Britain will have the same voice on the world stage as it does today.
You are not voting to leave Europe!! The UK will still, geographically, be part of Europe. Non political organisations aligned to Europe will still extend membership to the UK (I.e. sports governing bodies, and so on).
You are not voting to stop recognising Interpol, Europol and neither are you voting for SIS / MI6 to stop dealing with other intelligence services in the fight against terrorism and global, organised crime.
You are not voting against being able to travel to Europe, contrary to the belief of some fools recently on TV. The UK has always maintained stricter border and passport controls than many EU members. This will not change. You will still use a passport to go on holiday and you will still be allowed entry to countries in Europe. You may even get chance to skip queues by using the non--EU queues at the airport (the only point so far that is my opinion, and not necessarily a fact).
The UK economy will benefit to the tune of £billions in the first year after we leave.
Medical and science research will not simply stop. The UK pays into the EU to then get money back in the form of funding. The UK will now be in control of this money and can choose to fund whatever UK based medical, science, art or other research it chooses.
Farming will not lose money because of EU funding being cut. The UK negotiated a rebate of some monies that the UK pays to the EU, in order to subsidise UK farmers. Instead of asking for our money back, we can give it straight to farmers. No change there.
You are not voting against human rights. The EU Convention on, and European Court of Human Rights are not part of the EU. Until parliament passes a new bill of rights for the UK, these will still apply, as will precedents already passed down to UK courts from Brussels.
You are not voting to kick anyone out of the UK or block access to anyone. Neither are you voting to stop recruiting valuable European workers into things like the NHS.
Like my other point about passports for travel, the UK is already outside of the Schengen zone and so migrant workers must enter the UK with a valid passport before and after June 23rd. That will not change.
British borders maintain full control of who comes and goes. Should someone have the skills to apply to work in the NHS, then they will still be permitted travel and given an opportunity to apply for a job. Worst case, points based assessment, like the US, Canada and Australia use, will come into effect.
The UK is likely to negotiate freedom of labour movement though, in exchange for freedom of goods movement.
You are not voting to move jobs nor production out of the UK! The EU actually helped fund the move of Ford Transit production from the UK to Turkey... Yes, the EU helped give UK jobs to people in Turkey by giving Ford a loan of £80m with very generous terms!
What you are voting for is UK sovereignty. You are voting to stay in or leave a political union of leaders and representatives that you British people did not elect.
You are voting against a commission of unelected, elite men that nobody at all voted for and yet they make decisions on our behalf.
You are simply voting to bring sovereignty back to Westminster, and that is all. If you worry about that because you don't like the Conservative government, look at the reality. Their majority in parliament is very slim. They have been blocked on big decisions already. You are therefore not giving sovereignty to David Cameron, but to the UK House of elected representatives.
Do not be fooled by the fear campaigns that are simply run by the wealthy, who need EU money to thrive! Think about the future, and your family's future.

There are some many aspects that i could pull apart in the above post its frankly embarrassing.

EU laws are not made by unelected , just to point out that we have MEPs, perhaps you should look up what they do and more importantly how EU Laws are passed. There are many similarities with the UK there.

Secondly no one mentioned withdrawing from NATO or the G8 to mention that is nothing more than an attempt to deflect attention from the weakness of the leave argument.

Thirdly if we do leave the EU then we DO LEAVE THE EEA too, we do not contrary to your suggestion get the choice, that has been made clear, and whats more if we did remain in the EEA then we would still have to abide by EU law but would have no input on the decision making process behind it which we have at the minute!!

[EXC]

Re: The EU referendum

You are simply voting to bring sovereignty back to Westminster, and that is all.

http://terencestrong.co.uk/what-you-...eu-referendum/

What's not mentioned here is that we're voting on leaving the single market.

The EU single market imposes no tariffs on imports and exports between member states and the EU has trade deals with other non EU states. That means that the UK can sell most of what it exports (and a lot of what it imports) at competitive prices which benefits consumers and in turn attracts inward investment that creates employment and generates tax revenue.

[pt2537]

Re: The EU referendum

http://terencestrong.co.uk/what-you-...eu-referendum/

What's not mentioned here is that we're voting on leaving the single market.

The EU single market imposes no tariffs on imports and exports between member states and the EU has trade deals with other non EU states. That means that the UK can sell most of what it exports (and a lot of what it imports) at competitive prices which benefits consumers and in turn attracts inward investment that creates employment and generates tax revenue.

EXACTLY. Its like saying were getting divorced but will still be married,if we vote leave we leave the lot.

Also lets not forget the benefits of the European Arrest Warrant which has brought many UK criminals to justice even thought they have fled the country.

And lets not forget that we would have to renegotiate deals with the EU, i dont think anyone has focused on the fact that there are no guarantees that we will be able to negotiate better deals.

And like i said without the ECJ rulings we would never had won the Foster Burnell case and many many others.

[pt2537]

Re: The EU referendum

Ive just seen the BBC news article on the EU referendum, so Universities, Farmers and small businesses are seeking assurances that if we leave the EU they wont be losing their grants etc from the EU.

The Leave camp say they will find the money and gaurantee no cuts. WOW, so where is this money coming from? i mean do they really expect us to believe that they can suddenly magic up a few hundred billion to plug the gaps?

The remain camp have confirmed that there will be cuts as the money wont be available. I know who i believe and it aint Gimpy Gove and Boris the Bellend thats for sure

[christinez]

Re: The EU referendum

The “single market” is in reality a political project that is turning inexorably into a single government of Europe. There is no need to be part of this expensive legislative machine in order to export goods or services into the EU. The latest figures show that between 1993 (the dawn of the single market) and 2015 there were 36 countries – including India, Russia, China, America, New Zealand, Canada, Brazil – who did better than the UK at exporting to the single market. They weren’t “in” it. They didn’t have Brussels making 60 per cent of their laws. And yet they did better than us.
It is time for this country to show some of the self-belief of these two great companies. It was only a few months ago that the Prime Minister was saying we would thrive mightily outside. He was right first time. As James Dyson says: “We will create more wealth and more jobs by being outside the EU. We will be in control of our destiny. And control, I think, is the most important thing in life and business.”

[enaid]

Re: The EU referendum

Also lets not forget the benefits of the European Arrest Warrant which has brought many UK criminals to justice even thought they have fled the country.

Lets not forget either the foreign criminals arrested here that we can not deport, this also a massive cost to eh tax payer.