OFT Test Case - as it happens

[Nattie]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

a few points from the above.
1) Sometimes although the judge may seem to favour one side or the other, it may not be the result we expect.
2) If the OFT wins there is already mechanisms in place for the next phase of banking.
3) I am surprised that apart from Penalty Charges and Legal Beagles that no other site as of yesterday had gone to the court, OR more importantly, made enquiries about how to get into the OFT test case to report.
I am not blowing the Beagles trumpet but you have hot air and you have action.

I have just had another thought, if the OFT do win will the banks appeal and appeal the removal of stays?

[EXC]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

It was a very interesting and unusual day

I'll try my best to get today's courtroom capers written and posted up in the nexr 2 or 3 hours.

[Budgie]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

Hi Nattie

1) Sometimes although the judge may seem to favour one side or the other, it may not be the result we expect.

Although we could expect "playing to the gallery" from a County Court Judge, i doubt that a Judge of the calibre of this one would indulge in that sort of antic.

2) If the OFT wins there is already mechanisms in place for the next phase of banking.

Agreed, Am sure the Banks have detailed secret plans for their revised charging systems all ready to go when they lose the test case.

3) I am surprised that apart from Penalty Charges and Legal Beagles that no other site as of yesterday had gone to the court, OR more importantly, made enquiries about how to get into the OFT test case to report.
I am not blowing the Beagles trumpet but you have hot air and you have action.

Thank goodness that LB peeps are there. Am sure that other sites will start to attend once we get to the nitty gritty stages. At the moment though it's great that the LB guys and gals are there to keep us all informed.

I have just had another thought, if the OFT do win will the banks appeal and appeal the removal of stays?

Bound too! But Judge will surely cover this possibilty in his recommendations

[scoobydoo]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

I agree with Nattie

We all know we are not going to influence the decision now - however sure this is the culmination of a huge amount of public pressure and hopefully some sort of justification for all those members of the public who had to endure the stress of taking their case to court. Surely they will be interested in the proceedings. Also an understanding of the case as it unfolds I think would be preparation for whatever action is needed when the result is known. Better from the "horses" mouth than some media reports. Personally in the end I think we all know the banks are capable of recouping any losses if it does not go their way in changing the charging structure , however personally I would rather see a system that is fairer to all and does not penalise the most needy - and is clearer - so we can vote with our feet.
With regard to the comment about the OFT causing the amount of claims - I hope the answer was that the banks only had to successfully defend one case and it would all have gone away?

Look forward to todays news!

Any pictures of our roving reporter EXC to post up - Want to see what the criminal on the run looks like!

Jan

[Nattie]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

Budgie on point 1, what I was saying is that sometimes your perspective may not necessarily be as it is perceived. I think before the trial began that the service argument was a compelling one on some charges, but rabinowitz has stated that it is part of the whole package of the current account. It will be interesting how other QC's go forward from this standpoint or if they differ in interpretation or should I say presentation.

[Nattie]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

To add to this OFT myth, RBS Group were not saying that before the Report on charges, what they were saying was media coverage of the Stephen Hone case was the cause.

[TANZARELLI]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

a few points from the above.
1) Sometimes although the judge may seem to favour one side or the other, it may not be the result we expect. Totally agree there Nattie mate.
2) If the OFT wins there is already mechanisms in place for the next phase of banking. And it wont break the bank lol
3) I am surprised that apart from Penalty Charges and Legal Beagles that no other site as of yesterday had gone to the court, OR more importantly, made enquiries about how to get into the OFT test case to report.
I am not blowing the Beagles trumpet but you have hot air and you have action. Partly agree here, but it is not always possible to get away from other commitments (Penalty Action Group) discussed it but it and really wanted to , but so far not been able to as yet. It is still early days though so this could poss change. But I get your point.

I have just had another thought, if the OFT do win will the banks appeal and appeal the removal of stays? I think it would be a fruitless attempt. Afterall they have had it benefitting them for to long already it would only be fair that the tables were turned in our favour. I may be wrong.

Tanz

[Tools]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

Any pictures of our roving reporter EXC to post up - Want to see what the criminal on the run looks like! Jan

Here you go Jan Holiday Snaps

[Budgie]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

Wasn't disagreeing with you at all Nattie.

We can only summise how things are progressing based on the snippets we get from LB reporters at the court. Am sure that Rabinowitz is doing a great job for RBS but it certainly seems that he was put in his place by the Judge over the intelligible language point.

I agree that it will be very interesting to see how the other QC's presentations proceed. It's early days yet.

However, the OFT's response to the Banks defence and counterclaim does a wonderful job of ripping the banks fees for a service argument to shreds so if the combined legal might of the banks cannot score points, even at this early point in proceedings, I feel confident that the stage will be set for the OFT legal team to tidy matters up nicely when they finally get to present their case in a couple of weeks time.

It will be fascinating to see EXC's report on todays proceedings.

Budgie

[TANZARELLI]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

Most definately Budgie, and if points like the laungage matter and T&Cs are batted back by the judge it can only be a good thing.

I beleive a lot of people will be happy with that body blow. And may there be plenty more to come to the banks.

[Budgie]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

BBC news article http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7196736.stm

Will be interesting to see EXC's report and get his take on how these arguments were viewed by the Judge.

[TANZARELLI]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

I do support charges don't get me wrong. As long as they are proportionate and are not penalties. Call it £2 as a generous estimate and I wouldn't mind paying that. Just don't like being ripped to line the pocket of the banks. End of story.

[agnes]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

Errrrr isn't it more relevant that we consider that the Banks would not be losing their own money. THEY WOULD BE GIVING IS BACK OUR OWN MONEY - PLUS INTEREST.

I believe the UK economy would receive an unprecidented lift WHEN the OFT win. Consumers with money in their pockets usually spend it on things, thereby indirectly boosting the economy. The Banks will also have to rationalise their charging systems in line with whatever new regulations are forthcoming and an open playing field will develop, Customers will move accounts to Banks offering the fairest charging system.

I have to say; I entirely agree with you BUDGIE you put my thoughts into words a lot better than I could. :thanks:

[scoobydoo]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

It is incorrect to say they are charged only for those services," he said.

"The package of services is always being supplied. "They are at one and the same time charged both for the specific service and the overall bundle of services," he added


But I have a couple of questions- if the charges include the whole bundle of services - that means if you exceed your OD limit you are charged for everything
If you are in credit and have free banking -you are charged for nothing?So surely that is a penalty for those who go OD? So if no body went OD there would be free banking for all! I DONT THINK SO. Or am I reading this incorrectly?


Secondly as the case is against a group of banks - what happens if their arguments about the charges are all different? Hope they are as they are all spending customers money of expensive representation - would be a waste of money if they all came up with the same argument wouldnt it:rolleyes:

By the way tools- thanks for link - definitely shifty.

Jan

[agnes]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

I do support charges don't get me wrong. As long as they are proportionate and are not penalties. Call it £2 as a generous estimate and I wouldn't mind paying that. Just don't like being ripped to line the pocket of the banks. End of story.

This is a point I have always made, that nobody would object to paying a fair and proportionate charge (£2-£3) for going overdrawn, a point which seems to be overlooked, but extortion at £30 is not acceptable.