OFT Test Case - as it happens

[Lizzie47]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

Thanks EXC and Celestine
Just what we wanted ALL the detail..:okay: ill be logging in for updates..

[EXC]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

It’s showtime

Queens Counsel for the Royal Bank of Scotland Laurence began by setting out the background to the case. He talked of ‘’the torrent of claims’’ thatthe banks had faced and ‘’the deluge’’ on the Financial Ombudsman Service.

He said that the issues of the relevance of UTTCR and Common Law need to be settled and it was appropriate for the Office of Fair Trading was involved. However he was less certain about the OFT’s views on their findings in the April 2006 investigation into credit card default charges that there was cross-over to current accounts. These he described as ‘’ill judged comments’’. The judge interrupted, ‘’this doesn’t affect the case’’. The QC paused briefly and continued. ‘’a hornet’s nest has been stirred’’.

Rabinowtz turned to his submission telling the judge that none of the witneses who had given statements to the banks case would be cross examined. There was then an interruption from a distant bank’s QC, Milligan, who complained of ‘’the amplification not working’’ and not being able to hear the judge’s microphone. ‘’I believe Mr Milligan is having trouble with me’’ the judge said. ‘’perhaps the beginning of a stream?’’. Although said tongue in cheek it must have sent a little bit of a shudder down the QC’s back.

During the next part of his submission the QC recommended to the judge that the volume of historical trems & conditions was such that for the judge to consider all of them in detail would be......

More in a bit if I'm still conscious....

[EXC]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

Tom, Stephen & Phil outside the IDRC and out to lunch, & The Bunker

[smutley]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

sincere appreciation on the case reporting..... its like we were there with you! thanks for your hard work and hope you get a good nights rest

[EXC]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

I'm gonna write up the rest in the morning. I'm too tired now. It dosn't start to 11.00 tomorrow so I'll get a pass at 8.00 and type and post the rest from the bunker before it starts.

It was easy to get in and not all the feed room places were taken.

[EXC]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

Amazing that after all the hullabaloo about the few public places and only 20 people show up and most of those were not even members of the public. All the bo''cks cag were spouting about the lack of space and there letter writing campaign to MPs and not ONE of there 160000 members could actually be arsed to attend

[EXC]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

No probs Smutly and good to have you over here

[Celestine]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

Have a very well earned rest tonight Exc.........:roll:

Thanks for all your hard work. :thankyou:



Look forward to further updates.:okay:

[EXC]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

Thanks Kate

[agnes]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

Tom, Stephen & Phil outside the IDRC and out to lunch, & The Bunker

:goodluck:Thanks so much for all you are doing.

[EXC]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

Day One Continued.

........to focus on the key aspects of them. he said that the OFT would concentrate on current T&C’s and it was for the FSA to look at the historical ones.
Rabinowitz out-lined the ‘’constructive issues’’ of the UTCCR, relating to 62b which the OFT believe do not form part of the contract.


The issue of the T&C’s being in ‘’plain inteligible language’’ was raised and became the most interesting exchange so far. After harping on about the balance that was needed to be struck between plain intelegable language and concise wording the judge intervened with the OFT’s view that far from being in plain inteligable language, they were ‘’in no language at all’’.Justice Smith went on to give an example: If aspects of T&C’s are subsequently defined in a leaflet then the T&C’s are in no language at all. Therefore ‘’the question needs to be asked, does a term need to be made clear that it is in fact a term?’’. It was clear he thought it does.This was significant in that the judge was clearly on the OFT’s side on this point and it prompted wry smiles and nods of approval from Stephen and Tom.


The QC went through 2 cases that supported the bank’s case - one involving First National Bank and the other Easy Car Hire. The rest of the session was taken up with quite tedious stuff about EU directives and there application.


The quality of the legal arguments of his case aside, there’s no doubt that the RBS QC gave a very polished performance. Throughout the 5 hours he was putting his case he rarely looked at his notes and never faltered in his delivery. Like him or loathe him, it was seriously slick stuff.

Tit bits

The attendant to our feed room wore a school teacher like black robe and came across as a headmaster. On occasion there was an iterference to the sound of the feed and he would stroll around suspiciously in the hunt for someone’s switched on mobile. Matters weren’t helped when half way through the morning Tom Brennan’s phone rang and instantly realising the gravity of his fax pas he made a calculated judgement call not to risk fumbling around for his phone and he made an undignified sprint for the door Honestly, these bloody legal types eh?


In the gents which were located next to the hearing room I spotted 2 emptyminiture bottles of vodka stashed in a apaper towel holder. Interesting.


The judge was neither robed or wigged and wore a suit and tie.


The transcriber in the hearing halted the proceedings when her machine broke and the judge called for patience until it was dealt with, ‘’we must have a transcript’’.

During day one it emerged that the judge and the OFT did not have copies of a section of RBS’s court bundle. Naughty.

[peed 'orf]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

During day one it emerged that the judge and the OFT did not have copies of a section of RBS’s court bundle. Naughty.

Does this mean the missing pages can not be used as evidence? Or is the Court going to bend the rules for the Banks, yet again?

[TANZARELLI]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

I'm loving this bit:

Justice Smith went on to give an example: If aspects of T&C’s are subsequently defined in a leaflet then the T&C’s are in no language at all. Therefore ‘’the question needs to be asked, does a term need to be made clear that it is in fact a term?’’

This will P*SS on the bonfires of Banks such as LTSB et al who regulary amend T&Cs using leaflet notifications.

[StoneDeCroze]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

Amazing that after all the hullabaloo about the few public places and only 20 people show up and most of those were not even members of the public. All the bo''cks cag were spouting about the lack of space and there letter writing campaign to MPs and not ONE of there 160000 members could actually be arsed to attend

Whilst I may or may not agree with you on this point, is this realy the time or place for petty and snide comments?

[TANZARELLI]

Re: Day 1 - OFT Test Case - as it happens

I have to agree on the fact we needn't lower ourselves to the levels of some other sites.