Man who killed himself over £20,000 payday loan debt ‘started owing £100s’ – Mirror O

[PAWS]

Re: Man who killed himself over £20,000 payday loan debt ‘started owing £100s’ – Mirr

Yea, actually I did miss the point as well! Sorry!

[meellis]

Re: Man who killed himself over £20,000 payday loan debt ‘started owing £100s’ – Mirr

My mother is a blue badge holder (CPD a respiratory problem) and my other half always complains that I park to far away because I always say that I am fit and healthy enough to walk so let those less able park closer. I don't want it to be drawn on the disabled bay parking because I said I was in the wrong and the reasons why. The point I am trying to make that I feel is relevant here is that the bloke had a full on attack on me because he assumed that because I wasn't in a wheelchair and I was able to walk that I automatically couldn't have been disabled. When I say full on attack I don't mean a quick comment much more than that. This person, like the one that attacked the person with the heart problem probably thought he was clever fighting for a good cause but what if I did have a heart condition, or a respiratory condition or something like MS where on a good day it isn't obvious that there is something wrong. When we get things in our heads that we will not allow to be questioned then we start to have a very one sided view of things and sometimes we go too far, even if we feel that the cause is right. This is one of the issues we deal with where debt is concerned the people who cannot see, or won't allow themselves to see, that it is not always the debtors fault (sometimes is) but there is a responsibility from the lender as well. This is why Mrs CW has problems with the other half, not because he's a bad bloke just because he only understands what he wants to understand, there is a lot of them out there. when you are depressed about your situation and you here peoples views on it then it can very quickly make the problems worse and harder to talk about.

[wales01man]

Re: Man who killed himself over £20,000 payday loan debt ‘started owing £100s’ – Mirr

When you are with someone who is disabled and cannot walk well you can see at times the ignorant able bodied pigs who abuse the spaces.

[PAWS]

Re: Man who killed himself over £20,000 payday loan debt ‘started owing £100s’ – Mirr

This is one of the issues we deal with where debt is concerned the people who cannot see, or won't allow themselves to see, that it is not always the debtors fault (sometimes is) but there is a responsibility from the lender as well. This is why Mrs CW has problems with the other half, not because he's a bad bloke just because he only understands what he wants to understand, there is a lot of them out there. when you are depressed about your situation and you here peoples views on it then it can very quickly make the problems worse and harder to talk about.

So true Meellis. The treatment of people in debt is one dimensional. There is also the stigma of debt because those who are secure assume everyone who is being chased by a DCA is simply trying to avoid paying back what they owe.

[meellis]

Re: Man who killed himself over £20,000 payday loan debt ‘started owing £100s’ – Mirr

By the way, back to the parking bays, this is not just my opinion this was an article on the radio when they were talking about the innocent able bodied man who died of his invisible heart condition ( he knew he had it but how would anybody else) when he was attacked for parking in a disabled bay. On the radio program they received calls from other disabled people who had been attacked because they had disabilities that weren't obvious to the naked eye. I believe the man that attacked the innocent person was in his seventies so how he lives with knowing he brought on somebodies death because he went other the top in an argument I don't know.

[Wombats]

Re: Man who killed himself over £20,000 payday loan debt ‘started owing £100s’ – Mirr

The point being made originally that mental health impairments are invisible, and people would never dream of say or doing what they do if they could see a limb hanging off or an oxygen mask being worn all the time etc... is an excellent one, as is the fact that there is absolutely no doubt mental health issues carry with them a huge stigma for those who don't understand them.

With the person in question here, it is not fair totally to blame DCA's (debt and DCA's are killers, but.......) In the same way one can rarely see a mental health illness in someone (not never see, sometimes the mental impairment is very obvious), nor can one see what the months or years of living on a small income, trying to exist from day to day without having to take out a PDL had had on that man's mind. I suspect there was probably an underlying depressive illness before the PDL's were even taken out - we will never know.

We should never judge others from just what can be seen. Within that person could lie a host of issues, mental health, cancer, whatever, but things which may affect their ability to function at that point in time. Certainly with mental illness, later that day they may be ostensibly fine, but that is the nature of the beast and what makes it such a terriblyy debilitating illness for who have the burden of carrying it. The illness is sometimes always apparent, sometimes occasionally apparent and sometimes never apparent, but always there within the person affecting their thoughts, their actions, their lives.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Man who killed himself over £20,000 payday loan debt ‘started owing £100s’ – Mirr

With the person in question here, it is not fair totally to blame DCA's (debt and DCA's are killers, but.......) In the same way one can rarely see a mental health illness in someone (not never see, sometimes the mental impairment is very obvious), nor can one see what the months or years of living on a small income, trying to exist from day to day without having to take out a PDL had had on that man's mind. I suspect there was probably an underlying depressive illness before the PDL's were even taken out - we will never know.

We should never judge others from just what can be seen. Within that person could lie a host of issues, mental health, cancer, whatever, but things which may affect their ability to function at that point in time. Certainly with mental illness, later that day they may be ostensibly fine, but that is the nature of the beast and what makes it such a terriblyy debilitating illness for who have the burden of carrying it. The illness is sometimes always apparent, sometimes occasionally apparent and sometimes never apparent, but always there within the person affecting their thoughts, their actions, their lives.

Mental health issues work much like physical issues in that what is rather harmless for people without the condition can be fatal to those who have it. For example, teenagers who collapse and maybe die whilst training or playing in a school team. Healthy kids are perfectly fine with the sports but they can be fatal for those with a heart condition. However, not all people who feel suicidal (even if they don't carry it out) as a result of their debts suffer from depression or have a mental health problem. Some people just can't see it's possible to live a full and happy life with CCJs or even after bankruptcy, which the the worst that can happen to anyone as a result of being in debt.

[Johnboy007]

Re: Man who killed himself over £20,000 payday loan debt ‘started owing £100s’ – Mirr

I am registered disabled.
I have acute C.O.P.D and need to take oxygen on exertion.
I have osteoporosis and arthritis.
I am 70 years old, and my sex life is non existent.
And all you peeps can worry about, is finding somewhere to park

[PAWS]

Re: Man who killed himself over £20,000 payday loan debt ‘started owing £100s’ – Mirr

Johnboy I absolutely agree a solid reality check is a good thing but I think we all wish that was all we had to worry about. Sometimes sweating the small stuff takes your mind off the big issues and to be honest that’s not always a bad thing. :_tighthug__by_darkm

[Johnboy007]

Re: Man who killed himself over £20,000 payday loan debt ‘started owing £100s’ – Mirr

Johnboy I absolutely agree a solid reality check is a good thing but I think we all wish that was all we had to worry about. Sometimes sweating the small stuff takes your mind off the big issues and to be honest that’s not always a bad thing. :_tighthug__by_darkm

I was just trying to bring a bit of light hearted humour into this issue of disabled parking.
Unfortunately, we have strayed from the subject of the poor unfortunate victims who commit suicide every year.:tinysmile_twink_t2:

[Wombats]

Re: Man who killed himself over £20,000 payday loan debt ‘started owing £100s’ – Mirr

Yes FP - that is very true. For some, the pressure just becomes too much and there is no life beyond what they see, hence suicide.

The thing is, the suicide, whether triggered by illness or just not being able to see any real life beyond debt is an escape. What we must achieve, somehow, in time, is a way for people to get that escape without things getting that far. There will always be odd exceptions, but those aside, most of these issues are avoidable - we just need someone with appropriate authority and understanding to do something.

What seems to hinder this to a large extent is that those who have a real understanding of the issues surrounding this have little chance of climbing any political ladder far enough to do anything. They're unlikely even to get a foot on the bottom rung of it because their experiences of the issues are used against them. Also, as people climb the ladder, too often their views change and they forget their roots and the times when they struggled. Most have never had to struggle at all.

If I look at my own family, I have a brother and sisters, and two of them complain about struggling financially. They mean they can't pay for the new car in cash and have to borrow a small amount. Realistically what chance do they have of understanding their brother who has not been able to afford a postage stamp to put on an envelope to apply for a job, who sneaked out of his house at 5.00am to steal milk straight after the milkman delivered it to be able to have any, who drove to see an ill parent not having any idea how they were going to get home as they had no money for fuel, who used to be physically sick waiting for the post as he was scared of what was in the letters coming through the door? They will never understand it as they haven't lived it.

As the saying goes, "All things are relative." What hardship means to so many in this country is very different to the reality of hardship in this country.

We were more on the right track when we were talking about appearances though, as there are many outwardly 'well off' middle class people, struggling with their commitments. I could write for ever about this and the issue of changing attitudes or changing legislation etc.....

The real answer is finding that magic release valve for everyone at their own threshold before they have to do anything too drastic. That is a huge challenge.

That side of financial hardship where you go hungry to feed your daughter is something arguably you need to go through to truly understand.

[geoffrey]

Re: Man who killed himself over £20,000 payday loan debt ‘started owing £100s’ – Mirr

There is some very real hardship around especially among the elderly but when a friend (ex bank manager) became a voluntary debt counsellor he came across a family whose home was about to be re-possessed who had two nearly new large cars on the driveway when they had no real need for a car at all. Another single-parent mother of three was just having a new 48" TV installed when they already had two others, there were computer games all over the place, and they had just returned from Euro-Disney. Some people are not poor but they are just useless with handling money. Our family saved up for everything and bought nothing that they could not pay for immediately except their house.

[Johnboy007]

Re: Man who killed himself over £20,000 payday loan debt ‘started owing £100s’ – Mirr

There is some very real hardship around especially among the elderly but when a friend (ex bank manager) became a voluntary debt counsellor he came across a family whose home was about to be re-possessed who had two nearly new large cars on the driveway when they had no real need for a car at all. Another single-parent mother of three was just having a new 48" TV installed when they already had two others, there were computer games all over the place, and they had just returned from Euro-Disney. Some people are not poor but they are just useless with handling money. Our family saved up for everything and bought nothing that they could not pay for immediately except their house.

I agree that there are people who are bloody useless when it comes to handling money.
However, if you have kids who's friends or school-mates have computer games and have been to Euro-Disney. How the hell do you say to your own kids.. "Sorry, but you can't have any of these things".
You are very fortunate, in that your family had the means to be able to save up to get things you wanted.
Many, many people are not in the same boat.
A factory shuts down, hundreds lose their jobs.
What mummy and daddy could buy last week, they cannot buy this week.
In fact, the two big nearly new cars on the drive, are on the drive because mummy and daddy can't afford the petrol, and can't even afford to pay the mortgage.
Selling two cars would not even raise enough money to ward of court proceedings.

Yet the Romanian gypsy, who arrived in this country with absolutely nothing. Within a few months, was able to send thousands of pounds back home to his wife and kids in Romania. Just so they could build an even bigger house than the one they have got.
And where did all this money come from? English benefits system, backed up by European laws.
Yes, we pay for someone else's family who do not live here. But we can't give the money to our own desperate people who really need it.
But immigration abuse is another subject........ :focus:

[Amethyst]

Re: Man who killed himself over £20,000 payday loan debt ‘started owing £100s’ – Mirr

Lol Johnboy, you've been watching Channel 5, for shame ! xx May as well read the Mail and the Express. :doggieyes:

( Just noticed you've gone a funny shade of orange.... Welcome to VIP xx )

[meellis]

Re: Man who killed himself over £20,000 payday loan debt ‘started owing £100s’ – Mirr

Geoffrey, even though I don't disagree with your views because there are people like that it is an argument that is brought out by times like this and people believe it to be the majority of cases. The truth is this is the majority of cases that reach the headlines and because of the stigma it attaches to debt it is what makes proud people scared of being open in case they get viewed in the same light. When I was made bankrupt I had to have a meeting with the insolvency service and the bloke I met with was half my age. He tried to make me feel guilty about borrowing too much and couldn't see the argument that they had decided to lend to me as much as I had decided to borrow. And before people think I was frivolous I was building a small plumbing and heating business, my turnover had gone from £58,000 in the first year and would have been £380,000 in the year of bankruptcy. The major thing I did wrong was to pay my staff for sitting at home in the snow and Christmas which turned out to be 5 weeks. One of my friends said that he couldn't understand why people would start a business with all the stress and worry attached and I said that if people didn't we would all be self employed. When you invest in these things in the good times, be it personal cars on the drive or company vans, you forget that they are worth less once you sign for them than you actually owe on them so when debt comes calling you find you have to either find the monthly payments or find a lump sum to hand them back, draw your own conclusions.
Johnboy, I am truly sorry about your medical problems. Even though I said my mother had CPD , its what she calls it, it is COPD and she has had it bad for 4 years now (she is 67). I know what you have to live with I myself only suffer with gought attacks but being a self employed plumber trying to work to pay the bills when you cant walk is a stressful and tiring experience. Even when I cant walk though in all public car parks I generally park in the correct places and limp to where I need to.