Sir Fred Goodwin is not a banker

[Garlok]

Re: Sir Fred Goodwin is not a banker

Nothing wrong at all Sapphy, UNTIL it starts to move into the sinister realms of corruption and cover up as has clearly happened in the Goodwin case and others.

It is a sad fact that although this particular organisation has laid claim to altruistic principles and all pay lip service to never using it for personal gain, most members are in it for just that and exactly that ---- poersonal gain. Just look at Goodwin alone. Look at he size of his payout. The last figures I could get for Masonic charitable contributions were for 2004. They amounted to a total of £12m and some siginificant proportion of that went to their own charities. If, as is assumed, there are approximately 1 millioin members in the UK as a whole, and many many of that number are in the very highest ecehelons of wage earners. At 12 quid a head that makes the likes of Goodwin et al very generous people indeed does it not? Or does it?

Perhaps those who doubt should flog up on Albert Pike, his writings and beliefs and as for the illuminati, forget Dan Brown altogether rubbish, look up Adam Weishaupt and his successors well inot the twentieth century.

With an open mind there is case for some concern at the very least as to what is actually going on. On purely the banker front as we are discussing Goodwin here, why is Bilderburg kept so secret? why was one particular years worth of minutes from the Iron Mountain Conferences removed from the internet three times by the CIA? Why now does the very existance of the Iron Mountain conference be denied? If the banks wish to return to a position of trust and respectability, then they will have to be more transparent, honest and deal with the likes of Goodwin in such a way that justice is seen to be done not hidden by a veil of secrecy and superinjunctions. Without any conspiracy theory what has gone on and is going on leads to the conclusion that at the very least some form of collusion is happening when it mpost definitely should not.

regards
Garlok

[Sapphire]

Re: Sir Fred Goodwin is not a banker

Ok so you are saying that Sir Fred is a Mason ? What proof have you of that ? In fact what proof have you at all that the masons are involved in the whole thing ?

I'm sorry to say this but it bemuses me that whenever anything goes tits up in this country there are conspiracy theories that always include or actually blame the Masons. Next you'll be saying that Seb Blatter and the rest of FIFA have their own lodge.

[Garlok]

Re: Sir Fred Goodwin is not a banker

The problem lies Sapphy with the fact that the Masons have no policy of justifying their actions or inactions. It is not conspiracy theory at all. You want a copper-bottomed example, then take Michael Baigent who IS a freemason at quite senior level in fact I believe he was or is the editor of their in-house magazine. This is purchasable by anyone at the likes of W H Smith. Yet you will find that he was a co author of "The Holy Blood and The Holy Grail", he is also the author of the "Jesus Papers". He maintains with absolute authority that these are not works of fiction but the result of many years of painstaking research. Yet I have heard many dismiss these as being rubbish conspiracy theory of less worth the real works of fiction emitted by the likes of Dan Brown.

Freemasonry used to be a very overt thing, now it is ultra secret. George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin were co-authors of the American Constitution, only one was not a freemason. the others were overt in their beliefs. However as the years have gone by the excuse for secrecy has been fear of persecution. Maybe but only in Soviet Russia and under the Third Reich, they had nothing "to fear" here or in North America after the War of Independence. Yet slowly but surely they have become more and more secretive and it is well known that the likes of the De Rothschilds and the Bilderburgs ( probably between them the world's most powerful bankers) are prominent Freemasons. As is the House of Windsor I might add.

There is no absolute proof about Goodwin but it is most probable that he is a fraternal brother at the level he got to in the banking world. And as to the conspiracy theory, I am not a theorist in this line by the way, all you really have to do is look around you at what is actually going on and even with an open mind on these matters you can see many things which are not right or just but which do fit neatly into the prophesies of the Masonic World. Why do Chancellors of the Exchequer and Finance Ministers run like guilty schoolboys when the great Masonic families in the banking world snap their fingers?

Ask yourself why New Zealand is no longer a world exporter of meat?
Ask yourself why food is short and getting shorter to the point of crisis? Yet we have paid out millions in "set aside" to farmers to take land out of food production. The EU have poured milk and wine down the drain. Wheat mountains and butter mountains have been destroyed. All at the behest of a small group of powerful Masonic banker families. Of course there is going to be speculation once what is perceived to be a cover up happens like the Goodwin affair.

De Rothschilds are ON RECORD as saying that give them control of a country's currency they will then control completely the politics, judiciary and people of that country.

And like I say I am NOT a conspiracy theorist, I am open minded and NOT prepared just to take propaganda in like a council wheely bin.

regards
Garlok

[Angry Cat]

Re: Sir Fred Goodwin is not a banker

According to the world wide web, his Lodge is Morton Lodge #89
Registered membership number FK37349GN

[Sapphire]

Re: Sir Fred Goodwin is not a banker

Ok so according to you New Zealand no is no longer a major exporter of lamb because of the Masons ? the wheat and butter mountains and milk and wine are being wasted because of the Masons ?
Yes you are right there were and are very prominent Masons, the Duke of Kent is in fact the Grand Master and will be until his demise.
Yes Michael Baigent is the Editor of Freemasonry today, I actually have a copy on my desk as I type.
Yes there is a Knights Templar and I bet you didn't know that is also a Ladies order of Freemasonry.
What I can tell you is that the majority of Masons (I cannot speak for all as I don't know all) meet up once a week and practice their ceremonies for about an hour and the rest of the evening have a drink or six, then they have their quarterly meetings, where they perform their ceremonies and raise money for charity and generally enjoy themselves, most of them go home a little the worst for wear and a bit better for the wine.
Does that make them bad people.... no I think not, they are NOT cooking up plots to starve the world nor break the banks, they are pure and simply groups of men, enjoying the company of other men and raising money for charity at the same time.
The ladies lodge do exactly the same, I should know I have the hangovers to prove it.

No problem there I think, its pure and simple, people raising money for charity, simples.

Put it another way, some people like to join a tennis club, shooting club, swimming club, go to football, rugby or just play cards together, are they responsible for banks closing, jobs disappearing, food being wasted, no of course not, the only difference between those clubs and the Masons is ...
a) you cannot apply to join, you have to be asked
b) the majority do not have an initiation ceremony
c) Masons chose to keep their membership and ceremonies secret to preserve their privacy.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Sir Fred Goodwin is not a banker

Good Lord!
Surely, it comes as no surprise that Fred is a Mason or, even a Knights Templar.

He obviously had assistance from 'Brothers' in high places...

[Angry Cat]

Re: Sir Fred Goodwin is not a banker

Apologies for off topic content but JFK was assassinated in November 1963 and the speech was made to the American Newspapers Publishers Association in April 1961 which was at the start of his Presidency. The title of the speech was "The President and the Press"
The President and the Press: Address before the American Newspaper Publishers Association, April 27, 1961 - John F. Kennedy Presidential Library & Museum


The above has the full text of that speech which might give a little bit of context to the quote which is misquoted many times by many people to suggest he was talking about Masons, etc, etc, clearly he wasn't.

JFK, was a Roman Catholic, as am I.
Good Catholics Should Not be Masons - International - Catholic Online

Anyhow, hopefully we can all get back to the main topic of this thread:
Fred Goodwin and RBS

[Garlok]

Re: Sir Fred Goodwin is not a banker

Yes I did know about the female sectors of freemasonry. There are dedicated female craft lodges in the UK and some mixed lodges. Plus there is Eastern Star and Jobs Daughters if you want to be specific. Eastern Star being more active in the Southern Hemisphere.

Knights templar preceptories are to be seen in several places, not least is the Inner Temple. More famous shall we say for its legal connections. Yes?

Like I said Sapphy, my family is steeped in it. It has divided our family for many years. Lies have been told and looking back the very worst things that have been heaped upon me have been by Masonic liars like the orthopaedic surgeon who boasts on the net of his masonic achievements but is a very dangerous liar andI am vindicated by the appalling deaths at Satfford Hospital. Or is it OK that his lies by not preventing what was going on resulted in the deaths of 1250 people? Is that what freemasonry is about? That is just for starters.

Why in the depths of the Anglican Church, warned off by the Duke of Kent from fully publishing the findings of their investigation into the theology of Freemasonry, is there a "rite" or special prayers to fully release a freeamson from his vows and oaths. Can I respectfully suggest therefore that you read, as a freemason yourself, the writings of Albert Pike. One tome of his is recognised as the leading authority on freemasonry creed. He was a lifelong freemason by the way.

Do you subscribe to the modern wording in your vows or the original and correct version which contains "all ordinances of the land"? As I said there are those who are concerned at the abuses and who have pretty senior provincial honours as well as being in the higher or more correctly alternative echelons of Chapter, Templars, Hospitallers, Rose Croix and the like.

Please tell me why the Salvation Army is so bitterly opposed to freemasonry if it is as harmless as claimed.

You asked why freemasonry is to blame or more correctly in my view why it is perceived to be to blame is the power of the Masonic banking families to create or destroy nations and their peoples, phrases like Son of the Dawn, prince of light start to creep into ritual, a definition I'm afraid of Lucifer. You unfortunately have trotted out the trite response which is actually standard for the time.

Can I respectfully suggest to improve your knowlege of a very deep subject and to what you have got into you also read the Adam Wieshaupt material that is easily available. More difficult is the material continued in a very old book called "Heresies Uncovered" which you may find on the shelves of secondhand bookshops. Usually very dusty.

Please tell me why it has suddenly become expedient to do the "deal" with the Roman Catholic Church. Is it because of increasing influence of Opus Dei in the upper echelons of the western world's Revenue departments?

I have tried to explain why the perception exists but I know it is policy for you not to respond in a proper way. However if you cannot understand the influence that is being exerted I will never get it across will I.

regards
Garlok

[Garlok]

Re: Sir Fred Goodwin is not a banker

Thanks for that AC, I think we are and were trying to explain the probable reason for the ease with which Goodwin's misdeameanours were covered up. Unfortunately the subject becomes very deep.

Perhaps we should look at which golf club he is a member instead and what lawyers also play there.

regards
Garlok

[Sapphire]

Re: Sir Fred Goodwin is not a banker

Thank you for a brilliant discussion Garlock you say it is not policy for me to reply in the proper way, I say basically I don't want to give out any more information than I already have and hope now that we can put this discussion to bed and respect each others opinions and as AC says go back on topic.

Although I will ask you this.... why is it that the Salvation Army preach against alcohol and are so against the demon drink, yet it is they who visit pubs selling the War Cry and raising money for their charity?

Hmmmmmm...... I've never been able to work that one out.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Sir Fred Goodwin is not a banker

Thanks for that AC, I think we are and were trying to explain the probable reason for the ease with which Goodwin's misdeameanours were covered up. Unfortunately the subject becomes very deep.
regards
Garlok

A society of secrets, Garlock...

One can only hope that if the injunction is lifted and that the FSA do their job properly. We may learn about all the misdemeanors that, have been covered up.

The people of this country have a right to know!
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BBC News - Judge to rule on Sir Fred Goodwin injunction
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Sun goes to court over Sir Fred Goodwin gagging order | Media | guardian.co.uk

[Garlok]

Re: Sir Fred Goodwin is not a banker

Unfortunately AC " Society of Secrets" is perhaps a much wider issue than the narrow field we have been discussing. We probably live entirely within one. I have my cynical hat on for a few days now if you notice.

regards
Garlok

[Garlok]

Re: Sir Fred Goodwin is not a banker

Thank you Sapphy.

Sorry I couldn't get back immediately we have been struggling with BT internet and Yahoo mail all day.

Whilst I would disagree with the philosophy you hold dear, I would defend your right to my last breath to have the freedom to hold it and to belong to any legitimate organisation you wished as long as it does not harm others. Another part of the Masonic creed I think you will find.

best regards
Garlok

[CleverClogs]

Re: Sir Fred Goodwin is not a banker

No CC I have NOT and AM NOT! However as my family is steeped in the tradition (and still are) I know far too much for my own good about this organisation. Right thro Craft (Blue Lodge) European esoteric, Chapter, Knights Templar, The Order of St John of Malta (Hospitallers), Rosicrucians etc etc.

Although I only advanced as far as RA, my late father was in all of the above and Mark Masons too; one of my sponsors in the Craft is/was 33' and a member of Quatuor Coronati.

What I am aware of are Masons who are concerned about the abuses and I am also aware of Masons who now insist on the words of the OLD oath being used in initiation rites which include the words "any ordinance of the land" and not the more modern version which gives them a get out clause for fellow member transgressors.

Do you have any evidence of Masons suffering even a radical glossectomy for having violated their obligations? I'm sure that, had any been sawn in twain, at least one paragraph might have been published somewhere.

I am not a catholic either, but it should be noted that John F Kennedy made a speech in 1961, not long before his assassination which referred to this "odious organisation" having no place in modern civilised society.

Have you been cleared by the UGLE Supreme Council to reveal who really shot JFK and why?

No organised Christian Church (including the Anglicans) has found compatibility with christian ethics in it and that is despite the fact that the God of the Rosicrucians must be a christian God yet freemasonry in itself allows for any god (a member must want to be freemason, must be of sound body and mind, and must be believe in a god any god).

That is not entirely accurate, as Pastafarians are not accepted. Nor are Satanists or Santa-ists, for that matter.

For the more politically minded is it not strange that a"deal" has been done between the Catholic church (Opus Dei) and the Masonic movement after centuries of implaccable enmity?

Not really, as it was merely logical for the Papists to surrender a fight they could not possibly win. Just look at the deal the Vatican agreed with the Russian kakistocracy.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Sir Fred Goodwin is not a banker

Although I will ask you this.... why is it that the Salvation Army preach against alcohol and are so against the demon drink, yet it is they who visit pubs selling the War Cry and raising money for their charity?

Hmmmmmm...... I've never been able to work that one out.

Perhaps that's their Commando division?