There is something going on!! Plus power of attorney / previous fraud/ theft

[Quovadisuk]

Guidance and suggestions really appreciated on this one please : I will endeavour to keep things concise but please bear with me on this but let me paint the picture first
Basically, My wife lost her father a few years back , her mum is still alive and lives in the same house as she has always done My wife has three sisters , and three brothers . Two of the sisters live and work in the UK along with one brother the other brothers live and work overseas . When my wife’s father passed away some months later I went to the house and happened to help my mother in law to open the mail as she is elderly and has arthritis and was shocked to find that she was due a visit by the bailiffs to seize goods in three days . It was always claimed that her son was looking after all her affairs and we started to look deeper The next thing that was found was the overdue fees for the nursing home that had not been paid prior to his demise and this surprised us as his accounts had been set up to pay these out of his pension To cut the story short the son had managed to get the pin and card from his fathers room and stole nearly £12,000 I pressed for charges to be brought but as the detective investigating said there was a case to answer but in our absence he pleaded with his mum and she refused to give the primary statement for the case to go forward

since that time I have been keeping a vary wary eye in his business dealings and found that he had registered his mums home as the registered address for his business dealings and even as of today’s date has managed to coerce his mum into signing papers at some stage without our knowledge to be a director of it
Accounts
In all these instances we have tried to warn the mum of what is going on , but the sweet talker he is , it doesn’t seem to make any difference

We know he has his eye on the house she lives in to the point that he has even moved property in there what makes this wors is that he has managed to apply and get power of attorney status for the mum

I have raised considerable concern to pathetic public guardians office even highlighting the above events to them and offering the evidence and a statement from the bank stating that the above events were a correct account of events. and objected to the application being granted based on him not being a reliable and trustworthy amilperson to take care of his mums welfare and finances To my dismay they wrote back stated that they were unable to refuse the application as they could only consider taking action if he had done something wrong when he become power of attorney and not before

He claims to be terminally ill and is telling other family members he has to go overseas for treatment which costs £6000 each time , AND I SMELL A RAT Aga

[Quovadisuk]

Sorry got cut off there :

So to finalise , Can I confirm if this son has somehow taken a charge on his mums property to get access to money ie a loan or mortgage against the house and how should I do it .

What steps or preacuitions I should be advising the sisters to take to ensure another fraud I or coercion is in the planning ( or has already. been set ) I I fear the shark of the brother is up to his tricks again, but is now using the law to help him do it !!!

We. have one sister now recently living at the house tto try. help look after her , but she also has to work and whilst she is at work the brother comes around and does his convincing with the mum and so it goes on

Sorry it’s so long winded but I did try my best but there is so much to say Obviously I have told the sisters to keep an eye out for bank statements and any mail that would suggests something is wrong but it would seem there is little I can do for the sisters yet my instincts are that there is something wrong here and the hairs are standing up on the back of neck thinking the best thing to do in this situation any help or suggestions appreciated

[2222]

You can easily check the land registry to see whether a charge has been placed. Cost is £4 iirc.

You can also set up email alerts so the LR tell you if someone attempts to alter the register entry for the property. that is free and well worth doing for your own property too.

[2222]

https://propertyalert.landregistry.gov.uk/

[Amethyst]

As well as checking for any second charges on the property with the LR , you could look into protective registration with CIFAS too https://www.cifas.org.uk/services/id...e-registration and also get your wifes mum to check her credit files if possible. Although as POA he would be able to act on her behalf so it wouldn't stop anything, it might raise questions sooner. If she does have full capacity though, they are her decisions to make and all you can do is support and advise.

To my dismay they wrote back stated that they were unable to refuse the application as they could only consider taking action if he had done something wrong when he become power of attorney and not before

Presumably you went through the Object to Registration process when the LPA was being applied for? What's the point of that process, and the option "An attorney is acting against the donor’s best interests" if they would only consider actions after appointment and not before ( other than bankruptcy etc )

What happened with the bailiffs and the nursing home fees ?

Tagging Peridot

Any idea where he's going for this treatment btw? Somewhere sunny ?

[Quovadisuk]

Thank you all for the time to reply . It is appreciated thank you . The suggestion to enrol on the property alert was done yesterday, but thank you anyway ... I have also written an email to the fraud area of land registry to at least raise awareness as to what is going on , no doubt I will get a reply and further guidance next week so I will keep you posted . With regards the appeal against the power of attorney , I was in lengthy ,discussions with OPG and the result of the outcome was they could do nothing . I did find this bizarre as as it’s like giving the keys to a bank robber stating that he has hasn’t taken any money even though past events showed that he did when given the opportunity and even today I find this outcome still incredible but to be honest you see such decisions made like this on a daily basis so I shouldn’t be so surprised should I?

With regards the bailiffs, being there on the Friday afternoon, I was able to immediately telephone them to explain the situation, quite unusually they would in this instance suspend the visit if payment was made , and to be fair as it was owed a payment was made and that staved of the visit

The nursing home fees were obviously owed so having explained the situation to the local authority also they chose to put a charge on the house to guarantee repayment . Although this really should have involved the police as theft , it didn’t for the reasons already mentioned ( this still makes me feel angry today ) at the best the family could do via the mum was to apply pressure that as he stole this money then it should be paid back, which he ( or someone is ) at a £100 a month I recently worked this out to see that he has another five years to go , but of course I am sure he is betting his mum doesn’t survive that long, and being power of attorney this will all work in his favour when the time comes . It is quite sad to see how people will stoop so low , even when it’s their on flesh and blood . The whole situation is very distasteful to watch I do monitor to see if these payments are being made

I did another Companies House check on the MUM and despite her age of 83 find she is sole director of his wife’s? Company I See that he has no directorships , but I know that both he and his wife run this business and use the mum ( and the home address ) as being the person to have an active role in the company ( and probably doesnt have a clue about it all ) A friend has suggested my wife should ask her mum to complete the papers to resign this position and register this resignation with companies house ... Is this a good idea ? Finally I was told via a family member that he goes to Turkey for this treatment, to me this seems unlikely or to use a pun her bazaar but each time a question is asked by family members the responses seems to vary . I think this I am quite safe to bet that this is another red herring .

I have asked my wife to visit the bank where her mum has savings , just to make them aware of events and to ascertain if they can see if any large cash amounts have been withdrawn . I haven’t spoken with her today as she has gone to visit the mum this weekend , so at this stage I cannot confirm one way the other . I have told the sisters that If I do find anything wrong or unaccounted for I will call the police without hesitation . let’s hope this is not necessary for the sisters sake , but if it needs to be done it will be .


Anyway thank you all again for the time and support regards

[Quovadisuk]

Thinking on this today , I have undertaken numerous searches on him and by chance on his mum , and it would appear that he has set up a company solely in his Mums name and home address in 2015 From what I see at companies house the company is live, and due to submit accounts at the end of this month . Whats concerning me here is that the whole company is in the Mums name as director and also manager ..... with the office address being the house address the mum currently resides ........ I have raised this with one of the sisters , who in turn spoke to the mum, who says she was asked to sign papers for him to set up the company as he couldn't get credit , however we all know he owns property, so this seems to be another veiled attempt to scheme once again . I note that the mum ( according to Companies House) has significant control as she is the only person named on any paperwork?

The other interesting issue is that when I do a search for this active company , I dont actually find the named company trading address(es) I see similar named companies , but not this articular company??
Finally as the mum is actually 87 years young and has no knowledge or experience of running a company or indeed being a director of one , would this be a valid reason to ask the OPG to remove him as holding power of attorney as obviously as the mum holding this position he is knowingly using his mum as guarantor for his business by way of name and of course ultimate legal responsibility to not only Companies House, but also to inland revenue and VAT ( if registered ) so therefore putting the mum at unnecessary risk an therefore

• an attorney is acting against the donor’s best interests

Its just a thought , but the whole set up and affair does not sit comfortable at all

Is there any other information I can get concerning this company that seems to be veiled in secrecy ?? I really would like to see signed documentation if possible on say the set up of the company or the signed off accounts in 2017 to see if in fact the signatures are indeed the mums or indeed have been signed by someone else purporting to be the mum .... are these available anywhere??? Regards

[Amethyst]

Are you looking on companies house beta ? Everything publicly available is on there I'm afraid.

Any charges against the company ?

Random company link just in case you're on companies house webcheck rather than beta

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/c...filing-history

Limited companies. ... Usually, if you are a director (or acting as a director), you are not personally liable for paying the company's debts. This means that if the limited companydoes not pay its debts and a creditor takes court action, only the company assets are at risk.

however if he's got her to sign any kind of personal guarantees that could be a problem ( I'm not sure how just naming her as a director would help him get a loan as his given reason was "he couldn't get credit" unless a PG was involved - but surely even a bank wouldn't take a PG from a non present 87 yr old ) Is the date of birth correct ?

Any shareholders showing on the company confirmation docs ?

Could be using a trading name - if there is a website anywhere it should carry the company reg address and co house number on it so try searching on those too


Tricky if the admitted theft of the care home fees has already been disregarded.
"

• an attorney is acting against the donor’s best interests"

Has anyone got her to check her credit file ? Nothing on land registry at all ?

It could all all be innocent of course but the mention of needing her as he couldn't get credit is concerning.

[Amethyst]

Check insolvency list and banned directors list for his name too as that could be why he needed her as director... ( just thinking why he'd not put himself as director ) although bankruptcy should have prevented him becoming her attorney anyway.

[Peridot]

Hi Quovadisuk,

It looks like you are getting as much info as you can so far. Well done for doing a lot of the leg work. I have assumed this is a Lasting Power of Attorney that has been registered and will continue as if it is but do correct us if this is not the case.

To create the LPA your MiL must have had capacity so it would be difficult to demonstrate that prior to the creation of the LPA and appointment of the attorney there had been any dealings that she had not agreed to. There is nothing you can do about dealings or arrangements, prior to his being appointed an attorney without her making a statement to the Police I'm afraid.

When did the LPA get registered?

Who was the certificate provider on the LPA and were any family notified that the LPA was being created. Did no-one object at that stage or did the family believe the situation was ok at that point? If your MiL has capacity then she can bring the LPA to an end herself by revoking it. As a form of damage limitation this may be a sensible option. A new LPA can be created appointing individuals she trusts to deal with things correctly should she lose capacity. I appreciate this will involve further fees but from the sounds of it would be well worth doing if your MiL is agreeable.

It must be a really difficult situation for you all but if your MiL has capacity she is allowed to make her own decision, however sketchy those decisions appear to others, unfortunately. However, if the attorney is not acting in your MiL best interests and she is not of sufficient capacity (legally) to make some of the decisions that the attorney has taken, then the OPG should be involved under their safeguarding policy. If your MiL has capacity then they will struggle to get involved.

Is your MiL concerned? Would she be open to seeing a lawyer to find out what her rights are in relation to the company directorship etc. It may be helpful to have a lawyer set out exactly what could happen if things don't get dealt with for the company, which she evidently has no dealing with, although is apparently responsible for.

The problem that you have appears to be that the family (and the OPG apparently) believe that your MiL has mental capacity to make her own decisions even if they are poor decisions. If the OPG felt action had to be taken then the Court of Protection would become involved. However in relation to LPA's (or enduring powers of attorney and deputyships) the court only has jurisdiction where the Donor lacks capacity within the meaning of

MCA 2005

. If an individual does not lack capacity but is nonetheless susceptible to abuse or undue influence, the court will be unable to step in. However, if abuse is believed to be taking place then it is possible to apply to the High Court as it has jurisdiction to protect vulnerable adults.

I would also suggest that you or one/some of the children seek some face to face advise on this from a Court of Protection specialist to establish what options there may be available to try and prevent the son continuing with his shenanigans.

The attorney appointed as you are well aware must act in the donor (your MiL) best interest and wherever possible enable her to make her own decisions (even if they are bad decisions I'm afraid). You need specialist advice on this as soon as possible, both from a Court of Protection specialist and a Company lawyer specialist. Do bear in mind that if your MiL has mental capacity it is however up to her what she does.

[Quovadisuk]

Well I did the search on the property and it does just show the charge from the local council for the nursing home fees that we knew about
Companies house show a company reg number and and address which is the accountants office but not the address of the trading company

If I do a search for that company then I see similar named companies but not the name of the company that is registered ? Is it not the case that if a company is trading as " whatever " then shouldn't that show at companies house and not what I see ?

There appears to be no shareholders or no other person except for the mum signing off the accounts as director for the period 2017

There appears to be no charges against the company

His name doesnt appear as being bankrupt on the register for bankruptcy or banned directors

[Amethyst]

The 'Trading As' name being used by a company doesn't have to be detailed on Companies House. I can't imagine why he'd need her to be Director of his company. Possibly to move money about from companies that are in his name ( are there any?), to give the impression they are entirely separate companies - maybe one sells to the other etc ? Do the accounts show any deficit or anything concerning ?

What kind of company is it? I mean, what is it that you think they do? It's unlikely but if there is any consumer credit lending involved then they would need to be registered with the FCA, and trading names would need to be listed, same with any claims management type trading ( they'd have to list trading names with the MOJ) .... similarly if they are members of any other trade bodys / need to be authorised etc. But like I say it's unlikely.

As Peridot says all you can do while Mum is of sound mind is keep an eye on things and try not to let her get manipulated into giving him too much power. It doesn't sound like the things he has done so far are things he's done using his power of attorney, more things Mum has agreed to do under her own right, following discussion with him , so not sure it's going to help with getting him removed as POA as she's acting ( on request /suggestion ) rather than him acting for her. If you see what I mean.

Could you look at getting one of the sisters to become a joint POA ? ( I actually have no idea if that's something can be done Peridot ?)

[Peridot]

Hi again,

Unfortunately one registered you can't add or remove an attorney. The whole document would have to be revoked and started again. Of course if MiL has capacity then she could say that she'd like more than one child to deal with matters but they would have no legal standing while the LPA remains in place appointing the son only. In addition banks etc would not deal with a person who is not appointed on the LPA so no way of getting hold of information if not appointed. Best to revoke and start again in my opinion.

[2222]

Well I did the search on the property and it does just show the charge from the local council for the nursing home fees that we knew about
Companies house show a company reg number and and address which is the accountants office but not the address of the trading company

If I do a search for that company then I see similar named companies but not the name of the company that is registered ? Is it not the case that if a company is trading as " whatever " then shouldn't that show at companies house and not what I see ?

There appears to be no shareholders or no other person except for the mum signing off the accounts as director for the period 2017

There appears to be no charges against the company

His name doesnt appear as being bankrupt on the register for bankruptcy or banned directors

I suppose that you have evidence that this particular company is trading at all? I have a company that I set up in a fit of enthusiasm when I had a new trading idea. I then had second thoughts and did nothing with the company, but I have not dissolved the company as it only takes 5 minutes a year to file nil accounts and the confirmation statement.

There's no personal liability for me as a director, even if I fail to file all the required paperwork. After a couple of warning letters, Companies House will just strike the company off the register.

I think there's a possibility of a personal liability issue for directors if the company causes pollution or kills someone, but I have no idea whether that's even on the radar in your MIL's case?

[Quovadisuk]

Thank you all again for the inputs received today , they are invaluable, and do help with formulating plans to plan a way forward, thank you . My thoughts and actions to date on the situation is as follows :

All sisters agree that mum should resign from the directorship of the company :

Two sisters are accompanying mum to the bank to request statements over the last two years to check for any unknown withdrawals or activities :

Two sisters to continue the visit from the bank to the solicitor to verify if the original paperwork for POA are on file, and to check same and amounts paid*1

One sister to complete the paperwork for the removal of the brother as being POA and attach copy of original application*2 and submit same
Mum is able to think for herself and now understands the trust she has put in her son for future care and welfare may have been misplaced

One sister will officially register as mums carer

All sister will help mum re-apply for POA and all sisters only will be named and share the responsibilities

Discuss with Mum her will, and if she hasn't a copy to hand of what has been agreed , then to write a new one confirming all previous wills are nul and void .


* 1 There appears to be some discrepancy as to what was asked for by the son , to what was actually paid, hence the check

* 2 There seems uncertainty as to where the original forms came from or submitted by


Hopefully if all goes to plan , then at least we have all done our very best to stave off any attempt to mislead or defraud .



The company that mum is director of :

Digging deeper into Company House files . It would seem that his original company included parties including the sons future wife . This company then ceased trading, after 6 months and a similar named company opened, again this closed, and I think this was because a mistake was made and his name showed somewhere on the paperwork ..... To resolve this ( and I am only assuming this ok ) he then uses mum to "front " the new company again with a similar name to retain control and its assets yet no longer appear in or on any registered paperwork,hence he is able to trade without responsibility. I did track back the registered address shown at companies house to find it ends in a building that contains 267 other companies and an accountancy firm which I assume is either acting on behalf of these many companies probably including his own .

Is there any other way to get more information of what is really going on here as to me everything seems very suspicious and wrapped in secrecy, Is there a way to inspect tax returns or VAT( if applicable ) or indeed ask a company to undertake a more detailed investigation on these events and company ??

In any event I will keep you all posted as things develop ...kind regards to all !!