There is something going on!! Plus power of attorney / previous fraud/ theft

[Quovadisuk]

The 'Trading As' name being used by a company doesn't have to be detailed on Companies House. I can't imagine why he'd need her to be Director of his company. Possibly to move money about from companies that are in his name ( are there any?), to give the impression they are entirely separate companies - maybe one sells to the other etc ? Do the accounts show any deficit or anything concerning ?

What kind of company is it? I mean, what is it that you think they do? It's unlikely but if there is any consumer credit lending involved then they would need to be registered with the FCA, and trading names would need to be listed, same with any claims management type trading ( they'd have to list trading names with the MOJ) .... similarly if they are members of any other trade bodys / need to be authorised etc. But like I say it's unlikely.

As Peridot says all you can do while Mum is of sound mind is keep an eye on things and try not to let her get manipulated into giving him too much power. It doesn't sound like the things he has done so far are things he's done using his power of attorney, more things Mum has agreed to do under her own right, following discussion with him , so not sure it's going to help with getting him removed as POA as she's acting ( on request /suggestion ) rather than him acting for her. If you see what I mean.

Could you look at getting one of the sisters to become a joint POA ? ( I actually have no idea if that's something can be done Peridot ?)

Sorry Amethyst I nearly missed you out sorry , to answer your valid questions, we dont know, we know of other similar named companies and like you say they could be linked . In my opinion I think there is a link and no doubt has several account books to show a limited turnover and the cash book that is taken as tax free returns .... The company description is apt to cash transactions so this would fit nicely for him. its ladies hairdressing and supplies There is no lending though . Could a company be traced through any transactions undertaken by credit cards ? ie barclaycard etc ... if so how does one do this or approach? The plot thickens !!

[Quovadisuk]

I have now looked at Companies house for mum and the sisters .... and from what I can see if Mum resigns as the director the company ceases trading. Whilst I have no urge to cause massive ripples ( although probably deserved ) is this correct and are there any other considerations that they should take into account before mum complete the form?

[Amethyst]

Has anyone discussed this with the brother ? I think that might be a sensible step so he can make alternative arrangements for directorship if he wants to keep that company running.

[Peridot]

Although it may be an idea to get him off as power of attorney first as I suspect the proverbial may hit the fan if mum approaches him about the company before having dealt with the other aspects? I wonder whether get as many of the other things on the list underway first? Just my opinion. I'm not a company specialist unfortunately but there may be others along to assist there.

[Quovadisuk]

Although it may be an idea to get him off as power of attorney first as I suspect the proverbial may hit the fan if mum approaches him about the company before having dealt with the other aspects? I wonder whether get as many of the other things on the list underway first? Just my opinion. I'm not a company specialist unfortunately but there may be others along to assist there.

Mmm I think that is a very good point, and have passed this on as being a more realistic approach as we sort things out ...Thank you for that and Kind regards

[Quovadisuk]

Well the meeting happened between family members but despite the mums request that she wanted him to step down, he has been back to her a few days ;later and convinced her to change her mind once again so back to square one !!!

There is something really wrong here, as the daughters also requested that the mum should be removed as the sole director of his company and that his wife should take the place if he did not choose to do it . This he has refused to do and also refused to meet the family again to discuss these matters further

Bearing in mind I am the husband of one of the sisters, I feel this situation is not acceptable especially as the brother has sweet talked one of the sisters to come back from overseas to look after the mum, so now he has power of attorney with no responsibilities and have the sisters still running around and cooking for the mum whilst he is up to no good in the background !!!

Looking deeper into the situation myself I have started trawling through companies house to see what is going on and still find that the mum aged 87 still has control of his business and that recent accounts have been signed off and submitted to companies house ( no doubt electronically ) by the mum as the board of directors ?

Searching further I have come across another company that he is involved in , but craftily he has not shown his full name properly using only part of his first name and his middle family name as the surname

I also know that one of the accounts is held in a local bank where he takes the mum to undertake any transactions , knowing that if he was challenged at any time he has the guise that its on the mums request and signature that allows the transactions to be made .

I have advised my wife to draw a line in the sand and to make it clear that holding the sole position of power attorney for welfare and finance means just that , so if there is a need to welfare needs then this should be relayed to him to act on and not rely on the good nature of the sisters to do the dirty work !! and if there is a need and he is not acting on them then social services need to be called in .

I think this has hit home this time and the sisters and mum are to be meet very soon to put this fairly and squarely on the table .

In the interim, I have advised that in reality it may now be a case of bringing these matters to a higher level of investigation, as there is a real issue of smoke and mirrors being used here and I am thinking this may be the time to smoke him out ....not an easy one this especially as it involves family . but it seems so unfair and unjust to see all this going on, but feeling powerless to do so little. Its not fair on either the family especially the sisters who seem to be pawns in this elaborate game and plan of the brother. especially based on his previous fraud of thieving money from his late fathers bank account (see previous postings) Any other suggestions welcome .......

[2222]

You said; "Well the meeting happened between family members but despite the mums request that she wanted him to step down..."

This implies that MIL still can come to a conclusion and express wishes reasonably clearly, and you must think she can understand what she's doing or else you would not have mentioned her coming to that decision. The trouble is that she's also elderly and easily-swayed by her unscrupulous son, it seems.

I take it that you cannot prove fraud currently taking place against her?

[Quovadisuk]

You said; "Well the meeting happened between family members but despite the mums request that she wanted him to step down..."

This implies that MIL still can come to a conclusion and express wishes reasonably clearly, and you must think she can understand what she's doing or else you would not have mentioned her coming to that decision. The trouble is that she's also elderly and easily-swayed by her unscrupulous son, it seems.

I take it that you cannot prove fraud currently taking place against her?

We have discussed with the Mother in law the implications and risks that surrounds her, and when this is done, and for no other reason but to try and protect her and care for her , she seems to understand and agree with us . However as the son works? only a few miles a way he ensures what she has agreed with the family, is not a good idea and she is then swayed the other way not to take action .

At the moment I am still looking for the smoking gun to prove the fraud , but as he already had got caught by the family red handed with his hand in the till as it were , he is no being extremely cautious in how he plays the cards these days, but without question ...." there is something going on "

[Amethyst]

There is a reason he's not director of his own company. Think that's where you should be looking. You already checked he's not bankrupt or disqualified and that there's no charges against the company.

Do the recent accounts look healthy ?

What reason has he given his mum for needing her to be director ?

[Quovadisuk]

There is a reason he's not director of his own company. Think that's where you should be looking. You already checked he's not bankrupt or disqualified and that there's no charges against the company.

Do the recent accounts look healthy ?

What reason has he given his mum for needing her to be director ?

Today I went back over all the old files I compiled approx two years ago and found a previous company that his wife was director yet the other person was another person with the same surname but a different forename ,,, so I put a peg in the ground and worked forward, tracing all the companies and directorships he has been involved with , and a trend appears of where names are not in full or part of the Christian name is used and his middle name as the surname .... etc ... As I pull all the companies together you see a trend of opening and closing and basically " chasing the money " In relation to the current company I csee the involvement of his former partner as being a director then resigning, then closure, then opening again , then a company name change, then I think he realises an error with his named as director, then closure again and then the emergence of the mum being sold director of the present company aged 87 ?? The other interesting discovery is another similar named company that he is named as a director, and in each case both companies have filed micro accounts and when reviewed seemed to mirror the year before ? .... The other issue is of couse it shows mum signing off these accounts as the board of directors ..... I did enquire to ask if there are any files held at companies house that shows signatures on these and past returns this was undertaken without giving the game away as it was just a general enquiry but was advised that all returns was done electronically ....quite convenient for him yes ?? I have also enquired to see if an application to receive/ or is receiving a carers allowance,for the mum as if this was the situation, then this may be an opportunity to widen the search further

I have discussed the findings wife my wife ( his sister and mum ) and I think it may be as sad and hard this may be is to hand all this information over to either HRMC or police as requiring further investigation .This is a very difficult decision to make as you can appreciate, but if push comes to shove this may be the only option, as I have reminded my wife that if the situation was reversed he would have no mercy to do just that .

The other issue of course is as the younger sister ( having been convinced to return from overseas) now lives in the mums home, however if the mum should pass over then I can foresee the sister being thrown out to enable access to the property for either his wife's family or indeed to sell to gain access to the proceeds ...being the sole power of attorney for finance and welfare this seems a likely goal .!!

We suspect this as my wife has asked for a copy of the will from the mum, where the mum is reluctant to discuss or offer a copy?

My wife notes the stored furniture upstairs even in the bedroom of the live in sister

He refuses to stand down as POA despite telling the family he is terminally ill

The brother and his wife have there own access to the mums home and will come and go with no acknowledgement to the mum

The brother has applied for a blue badge on behalf of the mum thus making it even more easier to take mum to the bank to do what aver he does and with her apparent brain washed blessing ....


So you can see at the moment its like trying to grab a wet bar of soap .... but I will persevere just as a point of honesty and principal to help support the sisters where I can .... Is there any other bodies that you are aware of that might look at what is going on at a greater depth . as I am now starting to come up against data protection etc when I try to dig deeper, Whilst I appreciate and respect why this should be in place, it does in this instance makes matters a little more difficult to prove what I thinks is fraud or deception at some level .

Finally you asked the question why he needs the mum to be director .... From what I understand the reason given to his mum was that the bank would not offer a bank account to him at that time, so needed her to be director to open one

When I look at his previous record of businesses this was around the time he was opening and closing this particular company, but suspect that its more the case he can distance himself from the similar named company already in existence .. It may be the situation (and I am only guessing here ) is that one company is a front for the other, so that cards and cheques go through both, but the cash element is not shown therefore both companies trade but remains static as far as accounts show but the cash element vanishes ...again I must stress this is only a guess as to what is happening and can offer no evidence to prove otherwise, but I am now trying to get into his head and thinking based on past events as to why one would be so secretive and reluctance to stand down as POA .... Is it the case he has convinced mum to assign the will to him only already ..... seems to make sense he has .... but of course the veil of secrecy sweeps over it all once again ..Time will tell , but I am trying to get everyone forearmed and forewarned

To get back on track, as the sisters challenged him on this matter at the last meeting, there must be some clouding of the truth as to why he refuses to do this and to refuse to discuss it again , as although the events of opening and closing of companies happened two years ago , there is no reason as to why he couldnt get mum to resign and take the helm himself ..... or is there ????

[Quovadisuk]

QUOTE=Amethyst;n1435345]There is a reason he's not director of his own company. Think that's where you should be looking. You already checked he's not bankrupt or disqualified and that there's no charges against the company.

Do the recent accounts look healthy ?

What reason has he given his mum for needing her to be director ? [/QUOTE]

Today I went back over all the old files I compiled approx two years ago and found a previous company that his wife was director yet the other person was another person with the same surname but a different forename ,,, so I put a peg in the ground and worked forward, tracing all the companies and directorships he has been involved with , and a trend appears of where names are not in full or part of the Christian name is used and his middle name as the surname .... etc ... As I pull all the companies together you see a trend of opening and closing and basically " chasing the money " In relation to the current company I csee the involvement of his former partner as being a director then resigning, then closure, then opening again , then a company name change, then I think he realises an error with his named as director, then closure again and then the emergence of the mum being sold director of the present company aged 87 ?? The other interesting discovery is another similar named company that he is named as a director, and in each case both companies have filed micro accounts and when reviewed seemed to mirror the year before ? .... The other issue is of couse it shows mum signing off these accounts as the board of directors ..... I did enquire to ask if there are any files held at companies house that shows signatures on these and past returns this was undertaken without giving the game away as it was just a general enquiry but was advised that all returns was done electronically ....quite convenient for him yes ?? I have also enquired to see if an application to receive/ or is receiving a carers allowance,for the mum as if this was the situation, then this may be an opportunity to widen the search further

I have discussed the findings wife my wife ( his sister and mum ) and I think it may be as sad and hard this may be is to hand all this information over to either HRMC or police as requiring further investigation .This is a very difficult decision to make as you can appreciate, but if push comes to shove this may be the only option, as I have reminded my wife that if the situation was reversed he would have no mercy to do just that .

The other issue of course is as the younger sister ( having been convinced to return from overseas) now lives in the mums home, however if the mum should pass over then I can foresee the sister being thrown out to enable access to the property for either his wife's family or indeed to sell to gain access to the proceeds ...being the sole power of attorney for finance and welfare this seems a likely goal .!!

We suspect this as my wife has asked for a copy of the will from the mum, where the mum is reluctant to discuss or offer a copy?

My wife notes the stored furniture upstairs even in the bedroom of the live in sister

He refuses to stand down as POA despite telling the family he is terminally ill

The brother and his wife have there own access to the mums home and will come and go with no acknowledgement to the mum

The brother has applied for a blue badge on behalf of the mum thus making it even more easier to take mum to the bank to do what aver he does and with her apparent brain washed blessing ....


So you can see at the moment its like trying to grab a wet bar of soap .... but I will persevere just as a point of honesty and principal to help support the sisters where I can .... Is there any other bodies that you are aware of that might look at what is going on at a greater depth . as I am now starting to come up against data protection etc when I try to dig deeper, Whilst I appreciate and respect why this should be in place, it does in this instance makes matters a little more difficult to prove what I thinks is fraud or deception at some level .

Finally you asked the question why he needs the mum to be director .... From what I understand the reason given to his mum was that the bank would not offer a bank account to him at that time, so needed her to be director to open one

When I look at his previous record of businesses this was around the time he was opening and closing this particular company, but suspect that its more the case he can distance himself from the similar named company already in existence .. It may be the situation (and I am only guessing here ) is that one company is a front for the other, so that cards and cheques go through both, but the cash element is not shown therefore both companies trade but remains static as far as accounts show but the cash element vanishes ...again I must stress this is only a guess as to what is happening and can offer no evidence to prove otherwise, but I am now trying to get into his head and thinking based on past events as to why one would be so secretive and reluctance to stand down as POA .... Is it the case he has convinced mum to assign the will to him only already ..... seems to make sense he has .... but of course the veil of secrecy sweeps over it all once again ..Time will tell , but I am trying to get everyone forearmed and forewarned

To get back on track, as the sisters challenged him on this matter at the last meeting, there must be some clouding of the truth as to why he refuses to do this and to refuse to discuss it again , as although the events of opening and closing of companies happened two years ago , there is no reason as to why he couldnt get mum to resign and take the helm himself ..... or is there ????

[Peridot]

Hi Quovadisuk,
A really tough situation for you all. Unfortunately while mum has sufficient mental capacity to make her own decisions none of you can force her to do anything. I suppose all you can do is point out the potential issues.
I would say through it is not a case of him standing down as attorney for your mum. Currently this is her decision. The only other thing you could do is contact the Office of the Public Guardian to flag your issues with them as it would seem that he may not be acting in her best interests which as attorney he is expected to do at all times. Here are the contact details: https://www.gov.uk/report-concern-about-attorney-deputy
It is a really hard situation as with mum having sufficient capacity to make her own decisions she should be involved throughout. Even if her capacity were diminished, the attorney should be ensuring they have tried all methods to allow her to make her own decisions as far as possible. Not ideal when this person is her attorney!

[Quovadisuk]

Just to update everyone ...I know this goes back to 2018 .... but thought you would like to know ....The brother has recently passed away and we are now in the process of starting a new POA this time a shared one with the sisters involved . We found that the M.i.law was a major share holder of the company she had fronted for him as director but wasn't aware , so we have now completed the correct forms and she has resigned as director of that company ( although still responsible for it for 6 months) we will see where this leads , but I have today posted another enquiry about this.