call centres etc debate from enaids BT thread

[TUTTSI]

Re: enaids mums bt bill

I know this is not exactly on topic. But last year I unearthed at my place of work that BT were adding some services to the bills to the tune of £350 each year. As it was a new job I felt I should look into it and I made further enquiries and was passed backwards and forwards arround the world until I found that over 3 years BT had been charging for a services that they was not being used and they should never have charged it. It took manyphone calls and persiverance to get the money refunded.

It basically boils down to the fact that you have to check every bill thoroughly and I am of the same opinion as Celestine that for the elderly they should have a local number to ring with a special department dedicated to help the elderly where they find it difficult to communicate and where they do not have to listen to these awfull messages to listen for the options and then press different numbers to get through. I have trouble doing that now myself! so goodness knows what I will be like in 20/30 years time.

It also worried me that had Enaids parent paid by DD and this money had been taken from their pension it may have left them short to pay bills and food etc. After all £100 is a lot of money to a pensioner. It is also a worry to think how many other pensioners have had these mistakes and they did not have a member of their family to check this out. Well done to you Enaid for helping your parents in this situation.

xx

[enaid]

Re: enaids mums bt bill

Okidoki, think this leaves me needing two letters, one to BT and one to Ageconcern.
The one to Ageconcern I would prefer to be sent from Beagles if that is possible, think it will have far more clout than a letter from just plain old Nelly.

[Sapphire]

Re: enaids mums bt bill

Okidoki, think this leaves me needing two letters, one to BT and one to Ageconcern.
The one to Ageconcern I would prefer to be sent from Beagles if that is possible, think it will have far more clout than a letter from just plain old Nelly.

I agree with that hun but can I also suggest that the Disabled are taken into consideration as well.

[Amethyst]

Re: enaids mums bt bill

Yep good idea.

Hows the BT letter coming along ? If you still need a hand shout. You want to work on the one to ageconcern as well ?- I guess it will be asking if they do any work in this area already and suggest things which could help. And yes possibly coming from LB formally may get noticed more.

[enaid]

Re: enaids mums bt bill

I am grateful to everyone for your help, a letter will be going to BT tomorrow.
I am so glad that this thread has infact brought to light a little bit of insight into the plight of the elderly.
I know we have a few shall we say not "spring chickens" anymore on here. We know who we are and we also know our IT levels and the such
There is though a generation that were here before us and I know for a fact my parents wouldn't have a clue about any of this stuff or TBH have any interest. They have enough on their plates just taking things day by day.
So I do hope we can get a letter to Age Concern and maybe Help the Aged too. Even if it does not become part of their campaigns etc at least we will have let them know we are thinking of the elderly too Enaid x

[Xena]

Re: enaids mums bt bill

Excellent letter Tig, expect nothing less from you. Hope you use it Di.

[Amethyst]

Re: enaids mums bt bill

regarding the paper billing charge - I know talktalk have been removing the paper billing charge (£1.25 per bill ) for customers who do not have any broadband/internet capability. But takes the customer complaining to get the charge removed grrrr.

[argentarius]

Re: enaids mums bt bill

Goodness me, there have been some posts on here since I last looked. Some of you are rather easily upset and of course that wasn't my intention. I can't imagine why WendyB imagines that I was insulting or belitting anyone - I was not. Nor when I speak about "customers" do I mean the specific customers involved in this case - "customers" is a generic term.

INDIAN CALL CENTRES

Sapphire - I am glad to hear that you aren't (intentionally) racist. But I am sick of hearing people criticise staff in Indian call centres with ill-founded statements about their being

not even based in this country and cannot speak our lanquage properly

. What on earth relevance is where somebody is sitting dealing with your phone call, and how is caring about where they are sitting not racist?

On the same topic

They were geographaphical and linguistic.

Geographical/racist? Same difference in this case. Not liking dealing with someone because they are based in India/because they are Indian.

"Most workers in Indian call centres are better educated and can understand English better than the customers they are dealing with" because it is so patently untrue. Not only that, by your own measure, it must also be racist.

No, it's not racist. Nor is it untrue. Most Indian call centre workers are graduates. Only a minority of UK customers are graduates. All call centre workers are tested for their ability to speak in English. As Celestine has stated, most reputable UK companies take a lot of effort to work with their employees to give them some understanding of British culture, as well as in understanding regional accents.

I'm not sure of the relevance of the fact that "only" 30% of Indians understand English when by your own statement only 0.1% of the population work in call centres.

OBSOLETE RENTED EQUIPMENT

WendyB says that there's no reason why the letter writer shouldn't have an opinion on this matter. I quite agree - but cluttering up complaint letters with "kitchen sink" trivia doesn't help the reader to understand what the main point is, or to deal with it.

SPELLING & GRAMMAR

Originally Posted by argentarius
I don't think Sapphire's response is much better, although obviously you've improved the grammar and spelling. Is this a back handed compliment?

... (snipped)

There is absolutely no need to be patronising, sanctimonious and give the impression that you are always right and everyone else is wrong. The fact that grammar and spelling need correction is not a crime, nor should it be treated as one. In fact commenting on it would seem to be a bit "non-intellectualist" (I know that's not a word). Smacks of intellectual snobbery to me.

I haven't been any of those things. Nor did I make any comment at all about grammar and spelling "needing" correction - that was already pointed out by Sapphire. My real point was that Sapphire had sorted the grammar and spelling, but not addressed the other points which I went on to make about the content.

CALL CENTRES GENERALLY

THAT is what these big companies should remember that CUSTOMER SERVICE is the MOST important part of their business, and the ability for their customers to talk to someone easily (ie NOT press 1 for this, 2 for that), and to be able to talk to somebody who is based in the British Isles and knows what is going on in this country. And even more importantly be able to understand regional accents etc is in my mind THE MOST IMPORTANT THING any company can offer to their customers.

I don't actually agree that customer service (meaning dealing with telephone queries) is the most important part of BT's business. The most important part of their business is providing a good quality telephone service, and then after that correctly billing for that service. Clearly in this case, the second part of that has fallen down. Customer service is important, but it's not more important than the underlying service.

As you might have noticed, I don't have a problem with overseas outsourcing. But as I've said before, those call centre staff need to be well trained and empowered to resolve issues.

The "press 1 for x" approach to call centres is not done for no reason. In most call centres, it works like that because there are specialist teams trained to deal with specific issues. It also means that new staff can be put on the phones quicker, even though they only know how to deal with a few types of query.

It is not realistic for all members of staff at a bank, or BT, or wherever to be trained to deal with every possible type of query, and that's why "press 1 for x" is used.

SUPPORT FOR VULNERABLE CUSTOMERS

I wholeheartedly agree with Celestine's comments:

The real issue is that people such as Enaids parents or my grandparents need a greater level of customer service and support. This goes across all sectors, utilities, council tax, insurance etc etc.

Maybe we could look at contacting Age Concern to see what could be done.

CHECKING BILLS/PAYMENT BY DD

Luckily this is the only bill my mum pays, my dad does all the rest through his bank and DD's.
If this had have been a DD payment the mistake I am sure would never have been found.
The very thought that it could have been paid by DD and there not be enough funds in the account to pay it fills me with dread. My dad getting a letter from the bank saying this has not been paid would have seen him off for sure.
So although the mistake has been rectified over the phone by myself (and until the new bill arrives it is not completely sorted IMO) I do think BT should be made aware of the upset it has caused and the real problems it could have caused had I not been able to help my parents.

and the whole of TUTTSI's post.

It's only sensible to pay bills by DD if you are going to check them, and understand them, when they arrive so that you can clear up any problems before the DD is taken. If you are sufficiently vulnerable that you can't understand bills or deal with problems, then you ought to get someone to look after your interests under a power of attorney or similar. Shouldn't you?

What I'm trying to get at, without sounding harsh - and I'm sure some will slate me for this - is that it's reasonable for a supplier to assume that they are dealing with customers who are able to deal with their financial affairs.

THE REVISED LETTER

Amy's revised letter is far better than the original - well done, Amy. I still think that the comments about the obsolete equipment are pointless and sarcastic, and I'd delete them. If the equipment was really that bad, a caring relative might have got it replaced years ago rather than waiting for the opportunity to make sarcastic comments to BT about it, don't you think?

DATA PROTECTION

BT shouldn't be discussing your parents' account with a third party, so I trust that either they've already authorised you to deal with their account on their behalf, or you included/will include a covering letter to BT from your parents authorising them to disclose information to you?


I hope that you get a resolution which you, and your parents, are happy with, enaid.

[enaid]

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/showthread.php?t=11179

Well I personally think you are ageist, rude and totally out of touch with reality.

To insinuate I am uncaring because I havent bought them an up to date phone is a horrid thing to say.
I was complaining about the fact they were payinfg £13 a quarter for the rental of a phone they have had a long time, no update on it at all. Even with rented TV's years ago they updated your set periodically.
The fact you can now but a phone and a decent one for about £10 - £15 was the problem I had.
Also we found out at weekend the MIL is paying rental at the same rate for a phone that isn't even plugged in, she uses one someone gave her. She too was under the impression she had to rent a phone from Bt.
So I think it must be my family that are thick or uncaring, I just hope you grow old with all your marbles and clever people around you. Enaid

[argentarius]

Re: enaids mums bt bill

I'm not ageist.

It was you who was telling BT that your parents couldn't cope with an incorrect bill, or speaking to foreign call centre operators, or dealing with a call queuing system, because of their age.

I'm not insinuating that you are uncaring, either. I'm just saying that sending a letter saying that your parents have a phone which they can scarcely lift up because it's so ancient, suggests that you didn't do anything to resolve that problem. It's the sarcastic wording which was the problem, not the fact that you didn't get them a new phone.

There are probably loads of people still paying rental for BT phones. That's just the way it is. At the time the market was deregulated there were, doubtless, loads of articles about the change in the requirement. It isn't BT's responsibility to keep reminding people who didn't notice the change at the time.

I despair if you think I'm rude. My only intention on this thread has been to point out things in the original complaint which were irrelevant and hence unhelpful.

If you can't accept being told that things can be said better - which many others as well as I have pointed out - then just ignore me, as I'm sure you are doing. But why ask if you don't want honest feedback?

[Jester]

Re: enaids mums bt bill

I've lost count of the number of times I have spoken to foreign call centres acting for UK companies whose employees do not even realise that Swansea is in the UK !!

Because my address is in Welsh (with Welsh words) they assume it is not in the UK. Takes ages to explain that Wales is indeed part of the UK.

But then again, I have the same problem with Americans !!!

Ho hum !!

[argentarius]

Re: enaids mums bt bill

Oh dear! My wife is Welsh and she has spent 20 years trying to educate me out of pronouncing Welsh place names in a numpty English way.

Without wishing to stereotype or be racist :rolleyes:, I think the Americans are worse than anyone, for not realising that there is a United Kingdom which consists of more than "England".

[Tools]

Re: enaids mums bt bill

And that England has more places than London or York

[Guest]

Re: enaids mums bt bill

No, it's not racist. Nor is it untrue. Most Indian call centre workers are graduates. Only a minority of UK customers are graduates. All call centre workers are tested for their ability to speak in English. As Celestine has stated, most reputable UK companies take a lot of effort to work with their employees to give them some understanding of British culture, as well as in understanding regional accents.

I'm not sure of the relevance of the fact that "only" 30% of Indians understand English when by your own statement only 0.1% of the population work in call centres.

It is, rather obviously, untrue and clearly racist by your own measure.

According to data published by the CBI just last week, there are currently 10.1m graduates in the UK. There are around 500,000 workers in Indian call centres.

Do the maths.

[WendyB]

Re: enaids mums bt bill

I'm not sure of the relevance of the fact that "only" 30% of Indians understand English when by your own statement only 0.1% of the population work in call centres.

So presumably we can presume this means that only 30% of the 0.1% can speak English? Lets just hope if I ever call I get answered by one of the other 70% of the 0.1%. If there's approximately half a million call centre workers, and I've therefore got a 30% chance of having an intelligible conversation, lets also hope that the 30% all work for the company I'm trying to converse with.