call centres etc debate from enaids BT thread

[WendyB]

Also having read the bill, you are charging them rental for equipment ie a phone as old as the hills that has proberbly been paid for 3 zillion times over.

I love it! I've told you a million times not to exaggerate though.......


I know you wanted practical suggestions and this is not much help grammatically Di, but tbh it might have more impact. I will work on a proper version later, if no-one beats me to it.

[WendyB]

Re: enaids mums bt bill

Can someone check this letter for me when they get a mo please, any suggestions or corrections gratefully received enaid x


Dear BT,

On a visit to my elderly parents today, I was met by my very distraught mother.
She was shocked and upset to open a bill from yourselves in the sum of £255, which is far different to their usual bills of around £70-80.
As both parents are now in their 80's I am frequently asked to help with their mail as they cannot understand some of the correspondence they receive.
My mother had tried to contact BT using the number quoted, however she failedto get through, mainly due to the complicated system of pressing buttons for various options, which as you will appreciate is difficult for the elderly and those not so conversant with today's modern i-tech systems. This made her even more distressed.
I then phoned on her behalf and when I eventually got through to the right department, was told "Well the good news is, it is a mistake". Considering the amount of distress it has caused to my parents, I found this to be rather a flippant remark.

I trust that an amended bill will be sent out to them within the next 7 days.

Whilst I appreciate that mistakes do happen, I find this totally unacceptable. told your billing dept will be made aware of their error. Had my parents been paying by Direct Debit, this incorrect amount would have been debited from their account and may not have been noticed till much later, if at all. Furthermore, the £4.50 charge for not paying by Direct Debit is penalising them furhter. In effect they are paying for the privelege of noticing your mistakes.

Having examined the bill in closer detail, I find that they are being charged for equipment rented from yourselves. Please be advised that I have now purchased, on their behalf, a new telphone. Therfore please remove the equipment charge from any future bills and arrange to collect the rented equipment at your ealiest convenience, by prior appointment. If you do not wish to collect, please send a prepaid container so that they can return the equipment to you.

Yours
for enaids mum and dad

Is this better Di?

[Sapphire]

Re: enaids mums bt bill

Can someone check this letter for me when they get a mo please, any suggestions or corrections gratefully received enaid x


Dear BT,

On a visit to my parents this morning, I was met by my very distraught mother.
Although the BT phone bill is in my fathers name she is the one who pays it and she was very shocked and upset to read it was for £255.
I have been frequently asked to help them with their mail etc as the are now in their 80's and some of the mail they get they can not understand.
My mother had tried to phone BT using the number quoted, she failed at the third number to press for options and this made her even more distressed.
I then phoned and went through all the rigmarole we have come to expect before we get near to solving our problems.
When I got through to the right dept, I was told "Well the good news is, it is a mistake".
So right it was a mistake £178 for rental of equipment had been added to the bill. It was dealt with by that amount being knocked off the total and me being told that a new bill would be sent out for £77, a figure more in the liking to my parents quartely bill.
While I hold my hands up and have no doubt that mistakes happen, I find this totally unacceptable in being told your billing dept will be made aware of their error. On thinking this over afterwards my parents could well have easily had this paid by DD as per your letter that came with the bill.
Not only would they have proberbly never noticed this problem in that case, I find your £4.50 per quarter for having a paper bill sent, an insult.
Also having read the bill, you are charging them rental for equipment ie a phone as old as the hills that has proberbly been paid for 3 zillion times over.
I will purchase them a new phone and you can arrange to collect your equipment by prior appointment.

Yours
for enaids mum and dad

Dear BT

On arrival at my elderly parents home (they are both in their mid 80's) for my daily/weekly visit, I was met by my mother who was completely disraught, so much so I was in two minds whether to contact her GP immediately.
Once I managed to calm my parents down I was amazed to find out that this turmoil was caused by a bill from yourselves for £255, now I have just lately taken over dealing with their finances and paperwork and was shocked that they had allegedly run up a bill for that amount of money.
Before my arrival my mother had attempted many times to contact yourselves to query the bill but was confused with your automated telephone system, which in reality would confuse Einstein himself at times, and even worse when you do manage to get through you are met with someone who is not even based in this country and cannot speak our lanquage properly, perhaps you could explain to me how elderly people who are hard of hearing are supposed to get anything dealt with by talking to someone 6,000 miles away.
Because my mother had failed to get through to the right department I then decided to try and luckily I managed to get through to your billing section, who upon investigation decided that the bill was wrong and exclaimed 'well the good news is, it is a mistake'. Now forgive me for saying this but it doesn't take a genius to work that out does it. Happily the matter was resolved and the bill is being reduced by £178 and a new bill is being issued for £77 which is more like it should be.
Whilst I understand that mistakes can happen I would be grateful if you would make your billing department aware, so that this hopefully cannot happen again and cause distress to other elderly customers, who could have paid the bill without querying the mistake or even had the money taken from their accounts by direct debit and whichever way would have caused them to be grossly out of pocket.
On further investigation of the bill I find that you are charging rental for equipment that was probably used by Alexander Graham Bell in 1876 (he invented the telephone, just incase you didn't know). So in light of that I shall be going to our local store and purchasing more up to date equipment for my parents and would be grateful if you could arrange a time which is mutually agreeable for one of your workmen to come and collect the equipment.
I would also like to point out that I believe that charging £4.50 for a paper bill is disgusting and would like to register my thoughts on that matter.
Perhaps as a gesture of goodwill you could at least organise for my parents to stop having to pay the £4.50.

Yours


Di

[argentarius]

Re: enaids mums bt bill

I think TBH that a lot of the things you raise are irrelevant and therefore not helpful.

The nub of the issue is that they were mis-invoiced for equipment rental. And BT sorted that out on the telephone - issue resolved.

The fact that your parents don't understand their bills, and can't cope with automated telephone enquiry systems, is a red herring.

And the fact that your parents are paying to rent a phone - like everyone used to until this was deregulated - is not BT's fault or BT's mistake - it's your parents' lack of understanding.

You also don't make it clear what you are expecting BT to do - you aren't asking for compensation (and if you were, I'd ask "what for"), and you aren't asking them to collect the rental equipment yet.

All you'd get to that letter is a "fob off" reply because you aren't clear what you want.

[WendyB]

Re: enaids mums bt bill

That's why Di asked us to have a look at the letter first.

[argentarius]

Re: enaids mums bt bill

I don't think Sapphire's response is much better, although obviously you've improved the grammar and spelling.

There's no need for racist comments in complaint letters. Most workers in Indian call centres are better educated and can understand English better than the customers they are dealing with. The main reason people get hacked off with dealing with them is that they are either poorly trained or not empowered to resolve problems in a satisfactory manner.

The sarcasm may be amusing to us but once again it doesn't get the problem resolved.

And they aren't going to stop charging the £4.50 for paper billing so that's a pretty pointless thing to ask for.

The only thing I think you might get out of them is a refund of some of the phone rental charges, and a £10 bung for the "upset" of the high (and incorrect) bill.

But I don't really think they deserve either of the above, because BT dealt with the error expeditiously as soon as they were made aware of it.

[enaid]

Re: enaids mums bt bill

Do you really think that Arge?
If I had not been around who do you think would have resolved this problem?
If my mum had have been all alone and got her bill, having tried to get through on the phone and couldn't, then who would she have asked for help?
I was on the receiving end of the error being rectified and it was taken so lightly by the customer service person, that I was disgusted tbh.
I don't want compo, I wanted an explanation and a guarantee this wouldn't happen again, I got neither.
I am also of the belief even though I am not as literate as some, but can speak my mind, that us Brits do not in fact complain enough and that is why we are paying premium rates for third class services in all areas of our day to day living.
i

[Sapphire]

Re: enaids mums bt bill

Argentarius.

Let just get something straight here I am not a racist and I am highly insulted that you are intimating such a thing.

Obviously you do not know me, as others on here who have met me know that I am very friendly with a member on here who is of Pakistani decent. You have hurt me badly by your comments.

I was merely pointing out that an elderly person who could be hard of hearing would find it extremely hard to understand and rectify any query by talking to someone who is 6,000 miles away.
My own mother who was 85 years old had trouble in that way and even myself (I am 52 and hard of hearing myself) find it hard talking to call centres who employ people whose first language is not our National tongue.
Anyway however you dress it up, as much as the people who work in the call centres try (and yes I know that they are mostly very highly educated people), it is still extremely hard to talk to them and I agree it is not their fault, in as much it is not our fault either.
That is not a racist comment it is merely fact, unfortunate, but it is fact.

My comment on the £4.50 gesture of goodwill, was meant that I believe that BT SHOULD drop the charge for Enaids parents, just as that a GESTURE OF GOODWILL.

[Guest]

Re: enaids mums bt bill

I don't think Sapphire's response is much better, although obviously you've improved the grammar and spelling.

There's no need for racist comments in complaint letters. Most workers in Indian call centres are better educated and can understand English better than the customers they are dealing with. The main reason people get hacked off with dealing with them is that they are either poorly trained or not empowered to resolve problems in a satisfactory manner.

The sarcasm may be amusing to us but once again it doesn't get the problem resolved.

And they aren't going to stop charging the £4.50 for paper billing so that's a pretty pointless thing to ask for.

The only thing I think you might get out of them is a refund of some of the phone rental charges, and a £10 bung for the "upset" of the high (and incorrect) bill.

But I don't really think they deserve either of the above, because BT dealt with the error expeditiously as soon as they were made aware of it.

While I agree with most of the sentiment in this post, I object to the statement "Most workers in Indian call centres are better educated and can understand English better than the customers they are dealing with" because it is so patently untrue. Not only that, by your own measure, it must also be racist.

As much as 70%, if not more, of India's population have absolutely no understanding of English at all. Call centres account for 0.1 percent of the total labour mass in India, approximately 500,000 people. It is really not helpful to make such patently untrue statements.

What might be helpful however, are your thoughts on a more suitable letter for enaid to send to BT.

[WendyB]

Re: enaids mums bt bill

Before I start, I must point out that I am not anything ist, as far as I am aware. Not racist, sexist, ageist or any other ist. I am also not the most politically correct or tactful person. I should also probably apologise if my following post annoys anyone. But I'm not going to.

I think TBH that a lot of the things you raise are irrelevant and therefore not helpful.

The nub of the issue is that they were mis-invoiced for equipment rental. And BT sorted that out on the telephone - issue resolved. True

The fact that your parents don't understand their bills, and can't cope with automated telephone enquiry systems, is a red herring. It's not a red herring, it's a fact. Also, it would help to illustrate the situation. Things which seem trivial to some are big deals to others.

And the fact that your parents are paying to rent a phone - like everyone used to until this was deregulated - is not BT's fault or BT's mistake - it's your parents' lack of understanding. Also true but that doesn't mean the letter writer can't have an opinion on it.

You also don't make it clear what you are expecting BT to do - you aren't asking for compensation (and if you were, I'd ask "what for"),but she's not, so that's a bit of a pointless red herring isn't it. and you aren't asking them to collect the rental equipment yet. which is why I added a bit in about collection to be arranged etc.

All you'd get to that letter is a "fob off" reply because you aren't clear what you want. Which is why Enaid asked for people to have a look at her letter, so what she wanted could be made clearer.

I don't think Sapphire's response is much better, although obviously you've improved the grammar and spelling. Is this a back handed compliment?

There's no need for racist comments in complaint letters. You may have taken this to be a racist comment. Just because you did so does not mean everyone else reading it will do so. Most workers in Indian call centres are better educated and can understand English better than the customers they are dealing with. How can you presume that? You have no idea what qualifications people may or may not have. Generalisations and presumptions are so annoying. For all you know the elderly parents could be retired University professors with a string of degrees. The main reason people get hacked off with dealing with them is that they are either poorly trained or not empowered to resolve problems in a satisfactory manner. No it isn't - it's because the workers in the call centres cannot understand us, possibly due to either our regional accents or their heavily accented English, a two way conversation is sometimes near impossible unless you know the phonetic alphabet and have to spell out each word in a alpha b bravo English.

The sarcasm may be amusing to us but once again it doesn't get the problem resolved. True, but a little light relief never hurt anyone

And they aren't going to stop charging the £4.50 for paper billing so that's a pretty pointless thing to ask for.

The only thing I think you might get out of them is a refund of some of the phone rental charges, and a £10 bung for the "upset" of the high (and incorrect) bill.

But I don't really think they deserve either of the above, because BT dealt with the error expeditiously as soon as they were made aware of it.

There are always grey areas, not everything is black or white and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I know we are not here to sugar coat, but insulting and belittling people is just as bad an "ist" as those previously mentioned, in my opinion. As is accusing someone of something when you have no evidence to back it up.

We should also remember that everyone has strengths and weaknesses, those of us who know what our own weaknesses are ask for help, and likewise try to help others when the need arises, or help is asked for. There is absolutely no need to be patronising, sanctimonious and give the impression that you are always right and everyone else is wrong. The fact that grammar and spelling need correction is not a crime, nor should it be treated as one. In fact commenting on it would seem to be a bit "non-intellectualist" (I know that's not a word). Smacks of intellectual snobbery to me.

And if that sounds Arg-ist, well it probably is.

[EXC]

Re: enaids mums bt bill

Saphire's comments were clearly not ''racist''. They were geographaphical and linguistic. The frustration caused with UK companies using Indian call centres is that it gives the consumer the distinct impression that the customer service element of BT's opperation is so unimportant to them that it can be dealt with in a third world country.

Enaid has an unchallegable right to vent her negative emotions in her complaint. If negative emotions are the result of not being able to communicate with a communications company then surely BT needs to know about it.

[Sapphire]

Re: enaids mums bt bill

To carry on this discussion on call centres, myself and my OH have a small/medium business and we pride ourselves on our Customer Service, as we believe that it is one of the most important parts of any business.
The ability for any customer to be able to call us and discuss anything about their account (any many other things as well, yes even football), and for us to be able to deal with them quickly and efficiently is paramount for us, because of this we believe we luckily have kept most of our customers through the good times and the bad, and they even stuck with us when we folded one company and started another.
THAT is what these big companies should remember that CUSTOMER SERVICE is the MOST important part of their business, and the ability for their customers to talk to someone easily (ie NOT press 1 for this, 2 for that), and to be able to talk to somebody who is based in the British Isles and knows what is going on in this country. And even more importantly be able to understand regional accents etc is in my mind THE MOST IMPORTANT THING any company can offer to their customers.

Anyway lets get back to basics



NELLY STILL HASN'T GOT A LETTER

So if anyone would like to oblige her and help write one it would be gratefully appreciated.

Thank you

[Celestine]

Re: enaids mums bt bill

A huge company like BT could/should consider treating its elderly customers differently to other customers. A dedicated customer care centre for 'vulnerable' individuals would not be that hard to set up and could stop many of the problems detailed in Enaids letter.

Personally, I don't have a problem with overseas call centres. It is true that they often employ graduates and large companies, like BT go to extraordinary lengths to teach their staff about British culture (!! Corrie and Crimewatch!!). The staff are well paid compared to the rest of the local workforce, often earning the equivalent of a doctor or lawyer. This then benefits their families and improves the local economy.
Only once when I was dealing with Talk Talk (2 yrs ago) did I become frustrated at dealing with an overseas call centre because I was receiving terrible customer service and didn't feel that the staff understood my problem properly. By and large I have encountered helpful, polite staff. Only 3 weeks ago, a gentleman 5000 miles away manged to remotely resolve a connection issue between my lap top and my BT homehub.

However......my Nan & Grandad live in a cottage in our garden. They have separate bills to us and I have to help them with every single bill and letter. My Nan is of the generation who refuse to 'owe' money, so pay everything on the day they receive the bill. Several times I have discovered errors that Nan just couldn't have spotted. Dealing with anything on the phone is a nightmare. The crazy thing is that they have no major illnesses, neither of them are senile or suffering any sort of dementia. But they are 88 & 89 ...... they just seem to struggle with modern life.

I think the real issue here is not so much the call centres or the lengthy 'push button 3' access to get help etc. I can cope with these fine....they are irritating but they serve a purpose and they work reasonably well for most people under age 75-80.

The real issue is that people such as Enaids parents or my grandparents need a greater level of customer service and support. This goes across all sectors, utilities, council tax, insurance etc etc.

Maybe we could look at contacting Age Concern to see what could be done.

[enaid]

Re: enaids mums bt bill

Thank you Cel for that post, you really understood what I was trying to put across, not only on here but in a letter of complaint to BT.
Luckily this is the only bill my mum pays, my dad does all the rest through his bank and DD's.
If this had have been a DD payment the mistake I am sure would never have been found.
The very thought that it could have been paid by DD and there not be enough funds in the account to pay it fills me with dread. My dad getting a letter from the bank saying this has not been paid would have seen him off for sure.
So although the mistake has been rectified over the phone by myself (and until the new bill arrives it is not completely sorted IMO) I do think BT should be made aware of the upset it has caused and the real problems it could have caused had I not been able to help my parents.

[Amethyst]

Re: enaids mums bt bill

I agree that a complaint is in order. Other companies do offer special services to elderly people. Like reading bills out over the phone (where problems would be picked up before they reach the customer as the CSR should see an anomoly straight away on screen and the customer can query things immediately)

example from Ireland - http://www.bordgaisenergysupply.ie/d...s_Brochure.pdf

Yes I think this type of thing should be pushed by ageconcern and the like to the big companys to implement similar schemes.

Just for ref OTELO are considering bringing contact & resolution period down to 8 weeks Office of the Telecommunications Ombudsman - Latest News (they usually make u wait 7 months without resolution before they will step in and come after OFCOM)