BMW Financial Services - Voluntary Termination/Excess Mileage

[Phaeton]

NH, you say BMW FS aren't above the law.... you're absolutely correct, however they DO operate within the law

That has yet to be proven, personally I don't think they are, I believe they are using their own interpretation which may not be exactly what the legislator intended. But only a court case with prove it.

[GreggM]

You seem very black and white yourself, you sure you don't work with a BMW!

Good luck in your line of work, i can only imagine you must take great pride in what you do.....

[scotstoun]

^^ You're on here seeking validation for your decision to not pay excess mileage charges, and are clearly annoyed that I'm not giving you the validation that other contributors are.

Don't pay it then. It's your dilemma and your future, not mine. You're obviously unsure of what to do, so go and pay £200 for some initial legal advice on the matter... Personally I'd always value advice from a qualified and experienced law professional over that given by someone on an internet forum who struggles with grammar and punctuation.

I'll bow out of this topic now, and I suspect that in due course you will also bow out when reality eventually dawns.

[GreggM]

My last post on this....

I am not looking for any validation especially not from your good self.
There are other avenue's outwith of consulting a lawyer.
BMW are currently under investigation after receiving many complaints regarding excess mileage.

Its not as clear cut as you make out my friend......

[Bass Player]

scotstoun

What a helpful chap you are to take your own time out to engage in substantial arguments with no motive what-so-ever.

I never understood why anyone pays debt collectors. Once the finance companies have given up the debt collectors can simply be ignored. Once you’ve blocked the number it’s just a case of recycling the letters.

[Antdo492]

Hi!

First of all, Stuckcluckets well done for your perseverance, I haven’t seen a recent update from you and I hope that your situation has been resolved amicably?

I came across this article while reviewing information online regarding VT as am debating doing this with, would you guess it... BMW FS!

My wife has done this previously with Audi FS (Volkswagen) and she was not hassled for any cost in relation to excess mileage that said, it would seem to be very different on here.

Now I am not a legal professional, but I do have some limited understanding of contracts…

My contract is: Hire Purchase Agreement Regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

On my contract there are sections relating to

Termination

“you can terminate this agreement at anytime before your final repayment falls due by giving us written notice. You will have to return the Vehicle and pay

1. Any arrears and any other sums which have become payable under the agreement before the termination (including any Excess Mileage Charge), plus
2. The amount (if any) by which one-half of the total amount payable exceeds the aggregate of the advance payment and repayments you have paid, plus
3. If you do not return the Vehicle in good repair and condition the sum required to compensate us for this. This will be your maximum liability if you comply with these requirements.”

And

Termination: Your Rights

“You have a right to end this agreement. To do so you must write to the person you make you payments to. They will then be entitled to the return of the goods and to half the total amount payable under this agreement, that is £XX,XXX.XX. If you have already paid at least this amount plus any overdue instalment and have taken reasonable care of the goods you will not have to pay anymore.”

BMW FS own agreement stipulates this and even says you will not have to will not have to pay anymore.

Now! Both these items are in the contract and clearly contradict one another, but there is an amount defined under your rights with the contract. As such when executing a VT should you refer to this element of your contract? Additionally, if the VT is agreed/complete prior to the excess mileage charge cost being issued they them selves have no path to claim inline with their own contact?

I’m not sure where the “risk” is if you were to go to court? This is only binding document you should regardless of what is issued you when you VT the vehicle. The people on here seeking (like me) are not contract/legal experts and as such this should your favour. Its black and white in the agreement with your rights under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

If you have already paid at least this amount (50%) plus any overdue instalment and have taken reasonable care of the goods you will not have to pay anymore

This is all my simple view…

I did debate a part EX with BMW for a new car and I think my biggest gripe is how the charge is worked out? There seems to be an element of “double dipping”.

I have found that when speaking with BMW about swapping my car for a new one I would have to pay the negative equity on the vehicle based on its current miles as well as the excess charge…

This is worked out by valuing the vehicle at the time of interest and additional charge (excess mileage), the condition of the vehicle also plays a role here, mine is in very good condition other than a scuff on a wheel.

So! BMW advised me as follows (I am going to make some cost up so my point can be seen and relate this back to my current mileage on a proportional basis).

My agreement was for 12000 miles a year and a 48-month term. Total mileage is 48000 miles.

At 36 months I should have done 36000 but actually have done 63000 miles resulting in a 27,000-mile difference which at 0.0934 pence per mile works out to £2,521.80.

Assume the settle figure is £12,000.00

Now BMW valued the car on its current mileage at £10,000.00
Which is £2,000.00 short of the settlement figure. Then advised my that I have pay the excess mileage despite already depreciating the value of the car already.

I advised them that the current value of the car should be work out on the proportionately @ 36000 as they were already going to bill for the excess miles, and they had worked it out on a proportional basis.

Again in theory if they did it this way my car would be worth £14,000.00. £2000.00 in positive equity meaning I can use this to cover a portion of the excess mileage charge.

Boring and I hope it makes sense but for anyone considered a part EX with excess mileage. Don’t be duped by these corrupt salesmen.

I intend to VT my car similarly to the way me and my wife VT’d our Audi next month stipulating Termination and my rights element of BMW FS Agreement (As was the same with Volkswagen), hopefully I will not be met with the same obstructiveness but if worst comes to worst I am prepared to settle (with negotiation) as I believe (not everyone shares this view) there should be some good morals applied. I should have only done X number of miles and I have gone over…
My professional circumstances changed which is why this occurred… S**t happens…

[Ashfox]

I followed the process as suggested on this site and am going through the same issues with BMW FS regarding excess mileage charge.

Currently awaiting a response from the financial ombudsman, but not holding my breath based on other experiences I've read about.

Have just checked my credit report and the amount of excess mileage BMW claim I owe is now showing as the only outstanding balance (which they've told me will be a black mark next month when it falls more than 28 days due!)

Considering whether the easy way out is to try and offer a settlement with them as I'm worried about the damage that could be done to my credit score. Legal action would not be worth the cost that BMW are asking for so I don't see much other choice.

I have a colleague who has some experience in dealing with these kind of claims as a lender who has not seen this interpretation of the CCA used so loosely in order to pursue a charge in what is very much a grey area!

Just wanted to add my experience in case it benefits anyone considering VTing with BMW....

[Dicksonk]

Hi ASHFOX.

Just wondered if you have had a response yet from the Financial Ombudsman, I’m in a similar position with BMW Finance so would be interested to hear any update. Thanks.

[Ashfox]

Just a letter from the ombudsman to say that they have contacted BMW to investigate the claim. No result yet!

I had a call from BMW debt collectors today to reiterate that if I didn't pay the amount it would be marked on my credit report. And offered that if I make full payment today and the ombudsman finds in my favour, they will refund the amount! How kind. I'm holding out to see what the ombudsman says before deciding what to do.

[Dicksonk]

Thanks for coming back to me, grateful if you could let me know what the outcome is from the ombudsman if you don’t mind.

Thanks.

[Ashfox]

So I've just had my latest credit report and the outstanding mileage charge has been flagged as a missed payment (and reduced my credit score) ... Then it contradicts itself with the following commentary underneath.....



Voluntary Termination

What does this mean? The lender has reported that the account has been closed under Section 99 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. This relates to hire-purchase and condition-sale agreements (credit used to buy a car or other vehicle) and allows you to return the car and owe nothing once you have repaid half of the total price.

[Paul_D]

Hello everyone. I was sent this forum post by my sister who is looking to get out of a PCP on a 1 Series as she & her partner now have a baby and want a bigger car. As a high court bailiff for >20 years, her sending me this was an attempt to convince me that my advice to her was wrong and that she won't be liable for an excess mileage charge.
In her case it is just under £150, so small beans. I've told her she can either pay it and settle her account with BMW and not hear anything again from them, or not pay it and suffer poorer credit terms for years to come, which given that she wants a bigger car and to take out a mortgage, will likely cost her far more than £150. BMW won't waste their time taking legal action for £150.
My job involves collecting money from people that have a high court judgement against them. 19 out of 20 times it's the 'Can Pay, Won't Pay' crowd, of whom my sister is one. 1 in 20 is genuine hardship due to ill-health or job loss. The former make my day and keep me in plenty of work, so feel free to dinghy your excess mileage charges

[ostell]

I would suggest that you start a thread of your own if you want assistance but the way the legislation is written then there is no liability for mileage charges after a VT. It may have been BMW that were told by a judge that it wasn't payable but they still try.

I would agree with you though for the sake of £150 it's not worth the hassle.

[Paul_D]

^^^ Love it! Keep up the good work. Armchair lawyers like you keep me in work and my bonus high.

[Ashfox]

For anyone it might help, almost 2 years later I've had my reply from the Ombudsman and they have sided with BMW...

"I’m not persuaded that the provisions of the CCA would have prevented BMW from seeking payment of the excess mileage charge"