Raising an Action for Discrimination in Scotland

[Salmon Man]

I was voted on as a director of a company limited by guarantee. Previous meetings were very hostile with other directors present who did not agree with my aims and objectives. When the vote was taken to make me a probationary director I was not given the relevant paperwork to register with Companies House, and other paperwork necessary to complete the transition from ordinary member to Director. Others were given this paperwork and invited to subsequent meetings. I was not.

I am convinced that this was discriminatory. I intend to do what I can in a civil court to seek redress.

So, without having gone into specific details, does anyone have any comment or opinion to start the discussion off?

In Scots Law, am I entitled to present an action where I feelI haven't been treated with equal opportunities to others in the same role?

All the best

John

[Salmon Man]

Re: Raising an Action for Discrimination in Scotland

Just to add, I've spoken to ACAS who feel this is not a matter for the Employment Tribunal Service as it would first have to be established (in Law) that I was an actual employee of the business.

[Eloise01]

Re: Raising an Action for Discrimination in Scotland

There is no such thing as a probationary director in law. You either were a director or you were not. If you did not hold director status then you were not a director.

Discrimination, in law, only exists in relation to certain protected characteristics, such as race, gender or age. Any discrimination outside these characteristics in law, does not exist.

Directors are not automatically, or even generally, employees at all.

[Salmon Man]

Re: Raising an Action for Discrimination in Scotland

There is no such thing as a probationary director in law. You either were a director or you were not. If you did not hold director status then you were not a director.

Discrimination, in law, only exists in relation to certain protected characteristics, such as race, gender or age. Any discrimination outside these characteristics in law, does not exist.

Directors are not automatically, or even generally, employees at all.

In your opinion is it something I'll have to take on the chin?

And thanks for your prompt reply.

[SpringerSpaniel]

Re: Raising an Action for Discrimination in Scotland

In English law, you might have an action for Unfair prejudice in the running of the company's affairs. Someone else will have to advise you about the position in Scots law.

[Salmon Man]

Re: Raising an Action for Discrimination in Scotland

In English law, you might have an action for Unfair prejudice in the running of the company's affairs. Someone else will have to advise you about the position in Scots law.

Thanks Springer there must be some point in Scots Law where their actions may be deemed unfair and unequal, surely?

It's an angling association, a glorified fishing club, allegedly changed status in the 70's from a 100 year old local man's fishing association, to a closed doors policy company limited by guarantee in order to (according to their website) protect the directors from any financial involvement should the business go under, but really just a way of a close few strangleholding power and control.

They've gone too far though, they have also banned me from buying a salmon permit. The secretary himself is the only person who sells them.

Ironically, there is a freshwater Protection Order on the river which grants unrestricted access to the public purchasing a freshwater permit from a local tackle shop. So I can go fish there for trout, grayling and barbel, but just can't fish for sea trout and salmon. Madness.

Even more ironic is that all they will tell me is that they have deemed me "unsuitable to hold a permit" despite the Scottish Ministers having given me a warrant card as a bailiff on the system, which is overseen by the local fishery umbrella group, of which the same secretary from the association, is also the secretary here.

I want them to stand and face me in a civil court, and tell the court that why I am unfit and proper to hold a fishing permit, yet the umbrella group and the Scottish Government deem me fit to make sure everyone else has a permit, with the powers that carry with my warrant card. Unbelievable.

These people in charge, they are not even anglers. Even more unbelievable.

Nice profile pic Springer, it's the spitting image of the 2 yr old bitch lying across my lap as we speak. Do you work yours? I have mine trained to the whistle but we don't shoot. I do take her ferreting though, without nets. Sometimes she wins, sometimes she doesn't but it's a fair and equal opportunity for the bunnies, I think. LOL

[Eloise01]

Re: Raising an Action for Discrimination in Scotland

Unequal - definitely not. Scots law on discrimination is the same as English law. Only NI has an additional category, based on religious belief.

But the simple fact remains that in any UK law there is no such thing as a probationary director - you were either elected or not. But if you were elected that makes you one of the directors - if they do not agree with you and outvote you then that is called democracy.

Issues to do with fishing permits are entirely seperate and depend upon the rules and regulations under which they are sold by the secretary,and, if relevant, any authority they act on behalf of.

[Salmon Man]

Re: Raising an Action for Discrimination in Scotland

Seems I was never rightfully voted in in the first instance then, as probationary director was the title offered at vote.

They have their own constitution, which allows for a hearing for anyone being banned from the club, or for fishing, but they will not give me a copy.

Seems that legally, there is nothing I can do.

[Eloise01]

Re: Raising an Action for Discrimination in Scotland

That is not necessarily true - assuming you are a member of the club. But the costs could be prohibitive. But the "probationary director thing" is a loser - there is no such thing. Not in law.

[Salmon Man]

Re: Raising an Action for Discrimination in Scotland

The secretary recently informed me that I am NOT a member, never mind a director. He decided that I was never a member, despite not being able to attend director's meetings without ordinary membership.

They're just shutting up shop and making it all up as they go along. They've taken my life away from me, and they know it. This is a punishment for having relevant qualifications and experience in fisheries management and speaking out about how things could be managed better. I am a threat to them.

I knew all along the probationary director was dodgy. They are lying to me saying that all directors come in on a 3 month probationary period.

[Eloise01]

Re: Raising an Action for Discrimination in Scotland

Maybe they do - but that is their rules and they can have them. In law a director is a director. The articles and memoranda are public documents - you can obtain them from Companies House (or possibly the Scottish equivalent - not sure on that) for a fee. But it strikes me that you may be entering into a costly battle which you will have to fund.

[Salmon Man]

Re: Raising an Action for Discrimination in Scotland

I am sounding off, venting my spleen. I fished almost every morning or evening, before and after work, it's my life passion. I am absolutely seething at the way they have just cut me off, and anytime I have occasion to speak with them they just feed me nonsense, made up lies as reasons to justify my ban. If there's the slightest chance that there is something in civil law which states they could have or should have treated me differently then I wish to pursue that.

I am prepared to present any case by myself without representation, to keep costs to a minimal. I have no qualms or reservations about taking on such a task. A couple of years back I was wrongly accused of texting on a mobile phone whilst driving. I went to trial and defended myself and showed the cops up for what they were, mistaken at best, and at worst, in one officer's case, a complete liar.

[MissFM]

Re: Raising an Action for Discrimination in Scotland

Thanks Springer there must be some point in Scots Law where their actions may be deemed unfair and unequal, surely?

It's an angling association, a glorified fishing club, allegedly changed status in the 70's from a 100 year old local man's fishing association, to a closed doors policy company limited by guarantee in order to (according to their website) protect the directors from any financial involvement should the business go under, but really just a way of a close few strangleholding power and control.

They've gone too far though, they have also banned me from buying a salmon permit. The secretary himself is the only person who sells them.

Ironically, there is a freshwater Protection Order on the river which grants unrestricted access to the public purchasing a freshwater permit from a local tackle shop. So I can go fish there for trout, grayling and barbel, but just can't fish for sea trout and salmon. Madness.

Even more ironic is that all they will tell me is that they have deemed me "unsuitable to hold a permit" despite the Scottish Ministers having given me a warrant card as a bailiff on the system, which is overseen by the local fishery umbrella group, of which the same secretary from the association, is also the secretary here.

I want them to stand and face me in a civil court, and tell the court that why I am unfit and proper to hold a fishing permit, yet the umbrella group and the Scottish Government deem me fit to make sure everyone else has a permit, with the powers that carry with my warrant card. Unbelievable.

These people in charge, they are not even anglers. Even more unbelievable.

Nice profile pic Springer, it's the spitting image of the 2 yr old bitch lying across my lap as we speak. Do you work yours? I have mine trained to the whistle but we don't shoot. I do take her ferreting though, without nets. Sometimes she wins, sometimes she doesn't but it's a fair and equal opportunity for the bunnies, I think. LOL

There is something very odd about this Salmon Man - the normal way to buy a fishing licence or permit is through the Environment Agency in England and Wales and, as you rightly say, through a club or landowner in Scotland. Please could you say why, if you are deemed suitable to be a water bailiff, you are not allowed to fish? Normally it's just a matter of money changing hands for a rod licence (or have I misunderstood?)

[Salmon Man]

Re: Raising an Action for Discrimination in Scotland

Yes, let me explain.

In England and Wales you need to acquire a 'Rod License' from the Environment Agency just for the right to own a fishing rod, then you also have to pay the owner or proprietor of the individual river or lake for the right to fish, the permit.

In Scotland, there is no rod license and the Scottish Environment Protection Agency (SEPA) plays no such role as the EA does in fisheries management.

Our freshwater salmon fisheries (rivers) are either controlled by historical entitlement (the riparian landowners) or where there is none established the migratory fishing rights default to the crown, who then lease them to individual clubs and associations.

Most geographical areas of Scotland are controlled by District Salmon Fishery Boards (DSFBs) but my home river system is not, due to historical pollution rendering the system devoid of migratory fish, and the fish have only been back for the last 40 years or so. Our system has it's own 'Trust' umbrella group which oversees the administration of salmon leases and bailiff appointments, but in the grand scheme of things serves no other useful purpose.

At ground level, the clubs and associations, I volunteer my spare time to patrol the water of a smaller water, a tributary of the main river, with it's own club and own salmon lease. I am a bona fide member of that club.

The neighbouring association on the main stem of the system is the one I have the problem with.

So to put your question into some form of context, my bailiff warrant covers the entire riverine system, including the waters which I am refused a permit to fish.

Politics in fishing eh!!

[MissFM]

Re: Raising an Action for Discrimination in Scotland

Thank you for explaining, Salmon Man. Yes, politics creep in to ruin all life's simple pleasures don't they?

Down here (Wye and Usk) most of the fishing is syndicated under control of the riparian owners, who tend to sell the fishing by the day for the season, with a set number of rods per day so that everyone has a fair crack of the whip (or line lol) and the river is not over- (or under-) fished.

Do you think it possible that, even though the situation has obviously become highly emotionally charged, it mightn't be a possibility that they have simply filled all their rods? (Or doesn't it work like that with you?)

As (IMHO) you can trust EloiseO1's judgement on any employment issue, it looks, on the face of it, as if you have no legal redress for your situation. Is it at all possible that there is a third party, trusted by both sides, who could mediate for you so that you can get your life's pleasure back:fish2:?

I suppose it also depends how much you are prepared to "lose face" in order to get your right to fish reinstated and how much the personal animosity matters by comparison.