The mother dictating the order?

[t135t0]

Hi Again,


Hi after alot of ups and downs i see my daughter on nov 7th for the first time in 3 months. I wrote a heartfelt letter to the mother (after getting some great advice off here from two contributors) and a few fb msgs to her and her family and it worked, well i think it did, its either that or she realised she is in breach of court and if i took her back she would get prosecuted. Anyways it dont matter im seeing my daughter again.

In my letter i said i would seek counselling and try and sort my anger issues out. This past few days my circumstances have changed and i need to find a new home and relocate etc so im going to struggle to pay for the counselling as its £70 an hour round here. I messaged the centre coordinator who knows of the letter i sent and the idea i seek counselling, i said i may not be able to afford the counselling at the moment, and as it was my suggestion and nothing to do with my court order can the session on the 7th with my daughter still go ahead,???? The coordinator replied with "the mother will only let you see scarlett if you have been to counselling". i didnt reply to that as i didnt want to go on at the coordinator but can the mother do that??...if the mother is setting the conditions whats the point in having a court order in place??

I know you will all say just go to the counselling and im going to try but scene as i suggested it and it has zero to do with the court can she still refuse to attend the centre if i genuinely couldnt afford to go to the counselling sessions?

[Amethyst]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

As you made an offer to her, ie. you would seek counselling, and she agreed, ie allow contact, then I think she would be within her rights to withdraw her side of the bargain if you withdraw yours. It may have zero to do with the court now, but as you made a promise to seek counselling it would look quite bad to renege on that and still expect to see your daughter, and if you did go back to court to enforce the order and this issue with counselling and anger issues comes up it may not be as in your favour as you hope. This is quite a sensitive time so I really would go all out to ensure you can do the counselling, even if you can only manage an hour it will show you are serious and it is your priority. You have made a step forwards, to renege on it now will really damage any future negotiations about contact.

[t135t0]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

Ok thank you for the quick response.

Just to let you know and anybody else who may see this thread i do have anger issues but there has been no physical violence what so ever, i never said that earlier. i dont want people think i hit or hurt women, i just let off steam and get frustrated with the mother

[Amethyst]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

I didn't think you had done, hope I didn't sound like I thought you had. However, it is obviously something the Mother is using against you to limit access, whether there are genuine concerns or not, demonstrating you are taking steps to help resolve that issue will be a big plus point for any future court / private discussions.

[MissFM]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

Hi t135t0

Just to add that I think Ame is (as usual) right here - you have turned a really significant corner now and it's so important that you make it crystal clear that, in all matters connected with your daughter, you will keep your word as well as your cool whatever the obstacles.

That seems (to me) quite a steep cost for counselling, so am taking the liberty of supplying a couple of links that may help suggest ways to get it either on the NHS or more affordably.

Can I get free therapy or counselling? - Stress, anxiety and depression

Frequently Asked Questions about Counselling and Therapy services


These things do take time to put in train, and all such services vary in their efficacy for different people (one size doesn't suit all, lol) - the important thing is to demonstrate your commitment to keeping your promises, moving forward.

I'm so happy for you and hope all continues to improve xx

[t135t0]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

Hi MissFM,

I think your all right as usual, i have been given another chance and it could well be my final, final one so best foot forward i guess. Ill find the money.

[leclerc]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

As you made an offer to her, ie. you would seek counselling, and she agreed, ie allow contact, then I think she would be within her rights to withdraw her side of the bargain if you withdraw yours. It may have zero to do with the court now, but as you made a promise to seek counselling it would look quite bad to renege on that and still expect to see your daughter, and if you did go back to court to enforce the order and this issue with counselling and anger issues comes up it may not be as in your favour as you hope. This is quite a sensitive time so I really would go all out to ensure you can do the counselling, even if you can only manage an hour it will show you are serious and it is your priority. You have made a step forwards, to renege on it now will really damage any future negotiations about contact.

Can I clarify if there is already a court order in place for contact? If that is the case then breech of that order to revoke contact without due cause and not attending counselling is not due cause to cease contact.

[t135t0]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

Can I clarify if there is already a court order in place for contact? If that is the case then breech of that order to revoke contact without due cause and not attending counselling is not due cause to cease contact.

Yes there is a court order in place. I didnt quite understand your answer though?..can you explain it a little more please?

[Amethyst]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

If a contact order is in place and she has breached it then you could return to court to enforce it now, but you know that already. However what I was saying was she could make an issue out of the anger issue and your informal negotiation to attend counselling - and then reneging, and rely on that in court as to why she didn't allow contact ( which might not work but it is a risk). Whereas if you do the bit you promised and she reneges on her end you are in a much stronger position to return to court to enforce the order as you can show you have done everything possible. If you do your bit ( which you put forward ) then she has a choice - she either reinstates contact and complies with the original contact order, or she risks you taking her back to court and her looking unreasonable.

[leclerc]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

She can but if the OP has not put anything in writing then he can flat out deny that he made that as a provision of contact and that he felt that it was important for his child and himself to bond and that going through a counselling was the best option for both of them. The fact that he told the mother about this means that doubt would be placed on this.

If she has broken contact off then the court is the best way to go since it is a breach of that court order.

[MissFM]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

A link to the OP's other thread, Leclerc, so you can see the background: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...daughter-again x

[t135t0]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

Hi, Unfortunately i have found myself back on here seeking advice. i was here last September and you were all fantastic but it seems i dont learn by my mistakes and found myself in an even worse situation. its been a crazy 3 months since this thread started, i have hd a few jobs, was so close to having my daughter out of the centre on my own and paid over £1000 in csa and nursery fee's. Even though this past 3 months i have only met my daughter 3 times and on two occasions she wasnt interested but thats kids for you. The shit has really hit the fan now as they have got wind of some threats i have made to somebody in a neighboring village, some woman bullied me out of a work place, made me homeless for the night and her bf pinned me up against the wall by my throat, so last week in a drunken outburst i messaged them on facebook with some really nasty messages. The mother of my daughter and her family have got wind of this and stopped all contact and i am probably going to a criminal court as a result of that outburst i had on facebook. The family are adamant i am not seeing my daughter for a very long time and i agree what i did is not how parents should act, sending threats via fb is not a good role model and i understand their concern . As i said when this thread started i have never posed any direct danger to my daughter, there has been zero physical violence towards the mother and her entire family, and i have attended all my contact centre visits. This situation yet again is mainly down to me and i know my faults so please dont give me a hard time, all i would like to know is, as the threats were not directly aimed at my daughter or any of her family and they were aimed at somebody who is totally unrelated to this whole situation where do i stand in seeing my daughter again and what steps do i now take in sorting this out. It can only be done the legal way and i have exhausted all other avenues, i have written letters, talked to the family for 2 years and so on...it can only be done in court, are they allowed to stop me for this reason and will the court block me from seeing my daughter. I have heard it is very rare a court will stop a parent seeing their child so i am confident it wont come to that i just dont relish the prospect of being in a contact centre another 12 months as i have been in one for 14 months already, but at the moment not even that is going to happen. I dont think it is wise to enforce the order even though she does have 5 breaches up to now as she can probably prove i am at fault for her not attending the centre. i think i probably need to start the whole process from scratch with a c100 form, seek counselling so the court can see i am trying to mend my outbursts and instability and keep my fingers crossed. i did attend one counselling session in october but i didnt think it was my cup of tea, but i have been advised for it to work you need to have about 5 or 6 sessions. Again thank you so much for reading, i know i have only myself to blame and all honest answers are welcome

[leclerc]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

Am about to head out but the first thing you need to do is to not panic. Unless the POLICE take action and normally this would take the form of a polite word in your ear then all is good and well. How did they hear about these threats if they are unrelated and the people involved are not related.

Will have a proper look later on today....

[t135t0]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

I dont know how they heard about it, they wont tell me. The police officer said there is a possibility they will take action, they have offered a solicitor and he said its upto the the sergeant on the day if they will take it to court. i am afraid to say i have been warned about talking to these people a few months ago as i was so bloody angry with the way i was treated by them. it is only facebook after all and there is no evidence i actually did this, my fb is totally private and you can see nothing, so i could just play dumb .

in worst case scenario and they do charge me and take me to court surly they cant stop me seeing my child as it is not at all related to do with her and our situation, the family simply got wind of this by a stroke of luck. i saw my daughter last sat, then by monday im never seeing her again. and i see her in a controlled supervised environment, and as much as i bloody hate that centre it could be my saving grace as to seeing her again as this is partly why they exist

[leclerc]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

To be blunt, you are an idiot to think in that manner. You must always remember: If you post something on the internet it remains there forever.

Buy a paper and pen and when you get pissed off then write it down and go back to it later when you have calmed down and then destroy it.

It depends what you are accused of and it will depend on whether the child was in your care at the time. They can ONLY stop you seeing the child via a court order. I cannot remember whether contact is with a court order or not but unless you have harmed the child during contact or the child is of an age where their views are more weighted then you will not have a problem.

You big problem is simply that you need to find a way in which you can understand the triggers that make you do stupid things and to find a way to deal with that. Perhaps the issue of counselling is a problem of which type you have since there are many different types and that may or may not be the issue of engaging in that. In fact, if the court order made clause of going to counselling then you might be in a no win situation.

Furthermore, the mother's family CANNOT make a complaint to the police if they do not have the facebook message. I'd suggest that you perhaps deactivate your facebook profile until this situation sorts itself out.

I do want to say that I don't like the fact that you have kinda had a few jobs which does not show commitment towards making a living and supporting the child. Having said that, if they were temp jobs and the contract came to an end then so be it.
Sorry to be harsh but if we work hard for you to get contact, you should take on board our annoyance when you mess with it