The mother dictating the order?

[Openlaw15]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

These might be of interest
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/a_to_c/c..._social_media/

that's more than of interest that's more likely to reflect OP's position.

having said that they are a little old and I do not know if that idiot graylings proposals for increasing the maximum sentaence to 2 years has been implemented
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/bits/20...ternet-abuse/1

However , I think we really need to look at the root causes, you said that you had been paying daylight robbery amounts for counselling , not knowing where you live it is difficult to tell BUT have you talked to your GP about this and tried to get counselling on the NHS, not at all easy i know but a possibility . Alternatively there are plenty of local charities and organisations that offer counselling at much reduced rates, do not be put off by the people running these. An example I heard of was in Birmingham where the city centre church do counselling , however it is not done in a push Christianity down your throat point of view , it is done from a 'every person is important' point of view .

I would also echo what has been said, do not accept a caution without serious thought , particularly if you ever need a job with what used to be called an enhanced CRB check. I do not know the rules about legal aid right now but it used to be that everyone who was interviewed for a crime that could potentially , and I stress potentially, lead to a term of imprisonment was entitled to free representation at the police station
Phone round a few solicitors and see what they say

Some advice now is on the phone too

[Openlaw15]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

These might be of interest
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/a_to_c/c..._social_media/

having said that they are a little old and I do not know if that idiot graylings proposals for increasing the maximum sentaence to 2 years has been implemented
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/bits/20...ternet-abuse/1

However , I think we really need to look at the root causes, you said that you had been paying daylight robbery amounts for counselling , not knowing where you live it is difficult to tell BUT have you talked to your GP about this and tried to get counselling on the NHS, not at all easy i know but a possibility . Alternatively there are plenty of local charities and organisations that offer counselling at much reduced rates, do not be put off by the people running these. An example I heard of was in Birmingham where the city centre church do counselling , however it is not done in a push Christianity down your throat point of view , it is done from a 'every person is important' point of view .

Cognitive Behaviour Therapy (CBT) may help too. It's about learning how to deal with issues without losing control. Lots of things cause stress but not everyone reacts to stress in the same way. We are confronted by stimuli (things which stimulate our senses, ie visual, perception, thoughts), but like Pavlov's dogs knew when it was time to eat in classical conditioning, when the cues (hints) are there - ie emotions boil over, is the time to back off before trouble ensues. Or as it were, the fight or flight response so sometimes it's better to choose flight.


I would also echo what has been said, do not accept a caution without serious thought , particularly if you ever need a job with what used to be called an enhanced CRB check. I do not know the rules about legal aid right now but it used to be that everyone who was interviewed for a crime that could potentially , and I stress potentially, lead to a term of imprisonment was entitled to free representation at the police station
Phone round a few solicitors and see what they say

Psychology is important it's not just about law.

[t135t0]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

Hi,

So there is an update on proceedings,. I went to the station yesterday to get all this sorted. I wasnt arrested and still have not been in connection with what is happening.. The police wanted to ask me about two separate incidents.

First of all involving the mother of my daughter, Facebook and text messages that can be considered threatening, IE saying i knew what gym she went to, if i dont see my daughter there will be consequences etc etc. I denied sending all the messages as they had no proof it was me, the facbook picture linked to the messages was not my picture and the profile the messages had been sent from was totally private. The text messages were sent from a number which was not my number either so i just denied all knowledge. before we touched upon the second incident the police were really decent, they said how do you now move forward with this, how will you see your daughter again etc etc and they did show some concern and i did appreciate that.

The second incident was facebook messages allegedly sent to somebody who is not even involved in my little girls family or even the situation i am in,. They were very threatening and said some really awful things. The only evidence they have of these messages is a police statement, there is no facebook screen shots or texts messages, just a verbal account read to the police from a phone screen. I again denied all knowledge of these messages as to me there was not sufficient evidence that i had actually written and sent this message. I did say i knew the people involved and there was a negative history between myself and them but as far as these messages were concerned i dont know anything about them.

It has been the second incident that has ultimately stopped all contact with my daughter. The facebook/text message evidence that the mother of my daughter produced all pre dated dec 19th, i last saw my daughter on dec 19th, so im not sure if the court would take that into account i dont know. If those messages were so important and threatening why have they still let me see my daughter and only bringing it up now, As all messages from the mother came from last september and october.

the police have still not arrested me and have still not pressed charges as it is now down to the CPS, the police dont make decisions like that anymore. They said it could take a while for them to respond. This could go either way,

[Openlaw15]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

Hi,

So there is an update on proceedings,. I went to the station yesterday to get all this sorted. I wasnt arrested and still have not been in connection with what is happening.. The police wanted to ask me about two separate incidents.

First of all involving the mother of my daughter, Facebook and text messages that can be considered threatening, IE saying i knew what gym she went to, if i dont see my daughter there will be consequences etc etc. I denied sending all the messages as they had no proof it was me, the facbook picture linked to the messages was not my picture and the profile the messages had been sent from was totally private. The text messages were sent from a number which was not my number either so i just denied all knowledge. before we touched upon the second incident the police were really decent, they said how do you now move forward with this, how will you see your daughter again etc etc and they did show some concern and i did appreciate that.

The second incident was facebook messages allegedly sent to somebody who is not even involved in my little girls family or even the situation i am in,. They were very threatening and said some really awful things. The only evidence they have of these messages is a police statement, there is no facebook screen shots or texts messages, just a verbal account read to the police from a phone screen. I again denied all knowledge of these messages as to me there was not sufficient evidence that i had actually written and sent this message. I did say i knew the people involved and there was a negative history between myself and them but as far as these messages were concerned i dont know anything about them.

It has been the second incident that has ultimately stopped all contact with my daughter. The facebook/text message evidence that the mother of my daughter produced all pre dated dec 19th, i last saw my daughter on dec 19th, so im not sure if the court would take that into account i dont know. If those messages were so important and threatening why have they still let me see my daughter and only bringing it up now, As all messages from the mother came from last september and october.

the police have still not arrested me and have still not pressed charges as it is now down to the CPS, the police dont make decisions like that anymore. They said it could take a while for them to respond. This could go either way,

The police work with the CPS, so whilst they are independent from each other of course they work together. But great result for you. For record in terms of the family law situation messages over several years could be submitted as evidence. However, evidence just because it has been admitted and stay on record where other evidence comes to light which contradicts the first then the first will not have priority. You need to learn some anger management control. Anger is learnt behaviour to an extent and also a sociological product (ie through life and dealing with problems), but you have to find the best way for you. Instant messages, emails, texts all have the danger of getting people in so much trouble, as with a letter one has the time to think what to write and then even cancel sending the letter prior to completing it. With instant technology though one does not have these protections. So, you have to use your common sense therefore.

[leclerc]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

I completely agree with you OpenLaw15 on this. I am assuming the matter is not considered to that important to the police since clearly, they could have asked for the IP address from facebook with the associated email address to set the account up(albeit, it is quite easy to do).
The problem is ultimately contact with the child. If it is not court mandated then it should be and unless the mother seeks to alter that order then there is no reason for it to be revoked without reason.

If these so called threats are placed into evidence then the issue will be based on the balance of probabilities. I've seen family law cases in which the parent has not been charged with assault against their child but contact has been adversely affected because the courts have merely stated that the burden of proof is lower in family court so therefore they have to right to do this.

To the OP, I'd not be facebook friends with the mother of the child, I would be careful about anything you write on social media because of how it can be interpreted. Words on a page can be read differently to how they were meant(I've been on forums for so many years that I've read one post as one thing when it meant something completely different). It might be worth having a diary in which you can write things down when you are really stressed. Later on when you have calmed down you can re read this and perhaps identify triggers to that stress and deal with it.

As OpenLaw15 has said, you have to use your common sense.

[t135t0]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

Hi Openlaw,leclerc,

Thank you yet again for all your messages they along with everybody else have been fabulous. all criticism has been taken as constructive.

At the moment it is not a great result as it is still pending further investigation and could well still go to court, but no charges have been pressed yet and it is still very up in the air. The police have been very hesitant to arrest me though and they thanked me many times for volunteering myself to the station. It is now the waiting game, they have urged me to not contact the daughters family and do it all properly all over again which i will have to.

If i get incredibly lucky and all this gets dropped then the mother could well be in breach of the order as these are the reasons why contact has stopped, but to be honest if i try to enforce it then that would be sneaky of me and it could well backfire so i may just go in soft with a c100 form and do it proper. we will see.

[t135t0]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

Hi leclerc,,

the police did say they may contact facebook to further the matter, but getting an email address connected to the facebook account still does not prove an awful lot, its still circumstantial is it not??

[NWHC]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

I would not attend a police station of my own accord unless I was arrested. I would not be too reliant on a solicitor in police station because that solicitor may in fact not be a solicitor but rather a police station representative whose presence there attracts lots of commission based on his or her representations.

Comments like this worry me, if you are requesting the duty solicitor , or even arrange for a solicitor to attend with you, it is highly likely that unless you are paying , the person you get will be a legal exec . A legal exec will have far more experience than someone with just a law degree

From Weber's McDonalisation, 'McLawyer....society delegates roles whether in the UK or anywhere else - the state would prefer other staff as 'eyes and ears of the court' as the state has evolved and judges are more persuaded by others, are out of touch persons.

Good grief , has he risen from the grave, how the hell can Weber write about McDonalisation considering he died 50 odd years or so before McDonalds was founded

No - i am educated....educated....I do not cite Wikipedia...I cite from my own education. There was not a shred of evidence anyway that I cite from Wikipedia except a cheap shot for arbitrary's sake. No non sequitur please.

.

Maybe the above quote shows a use of Wiki. Even an academics can and do use Wiki , clearly not as a source to reference but some articles are clearly written and well referenced .

You say you studied sociology and psychology , were they are minors with you law major or subsids in year 1 .

BTW CBT is not what you describe , it is a therapy that helps you retrain the way you think and therefore behave . There are lots of books out there that claim to be based on CBT however the best way to use CBT is work with a CBT therapist in a one on one basis.

[NWHC]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

Hi leclerc,,

the police did say they may contact facebook to further the matter, but getting an email address connected to the facebook account still does not prove an awful lot, its still circumstantial is it not??

Without wishing to worry you, it is not just the email address that FB would be able to provide but also the IP address which might suggest that the posts were made from an internet connection owned by you . I have heard however that this in itself is not conclusive proof , but will add to the weight of evidence.

As you rightly said, it is the CPS who decide if a prosecution is in the public interest with a reasonable chance of success. As for a caution, if one is offered , take legal advice as it is not unknown for the police to offer a caution when there is little prospect of a conviction but it massages their clear up figures . IT will also stay on your record.

On another topic, there are plenty of phone line /internet resources available for MH issues however i would be very wary of using them in your case, do everything you can to get help on the NHS or through face to face servives offered by other registered organisations

[t135t0]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

Hi NWHC,

Its fine you are not worrying me, i need honest answers, as hearing what id love to hear will not help me.

I f i am convicted i know i wont go to jail, the messages were not nice but nothing to bang me up. but what worries me is if i do get convicted will a family court still let me see my daughter, that is what worries me. I can pay any fines issued, i can do community service and whatever the criminal court orders me to do, but what i cant do is cope with a family court if they decide to strip me of PR cos of silly messages sent via facebook. We all need to reap what we sow, i get that, but i cant even fathom being told im am not legally allowed to see my daughter, ill try to stay positive though.

- - - Updated - - -

NWHC,

One more thing, you mentioned an "IP address".

I just googled it and is that not something that is unique to my laptop?

[NWHC]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

As far as I can work out, an IP address is unique to your internet connection so for example if you have wifi in your house and several people use the internet on different devices they all have the same IP. An example, if you let your neighbour share your wifi and they download something that infringes copyright , it could be you or them that did it.

Ip's can be fixed or dynamic which just gets more confusing . Some can be reset just be turning your router off and on again, some need the router off for several hours , Sky is, I think about 6 hours .
They also give an approximate area that the person is in , sometimes relatively accurate down to the exchange , sometimes less so particularly if its done on mobile connection like a phone

[Openlaw15]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

IP = internet provider (ie you pay IP money to use the internet). Amongst all the computers on the internet.. your desktop/ laptop computer has a unique identity meaning it stands out...this is why when persons pirate stuff form websites, ie watch sky movies for free, download movies or other they can be detected. These new boxes that are used to access Sky channels for free are actually illegal and at some point sky will contact those individuals as the Internet Providers will be forced to give details of the name and addresses using their services. The FBI, the Police etc also monitor the internet on social media websites such as Facebook. This is how social media crimes are known about. So, just be careful is what we're saying.

[Nibbler]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

IP = internet provider

Not in this context.

IP =Internet Protocol

See: https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/1696588

your desktop/ laptop computer has a unique identity meaning it stands out

The connection does. But only at a certain point in time.

Your laptop/Desktop does not, at least not in relation to the IP. There is other metadata that it may reveal while connecting that could be used to distinguish one machine from another, but that can be covered and spoofed.

[ostell]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

Please keep your comments to those you know about. IP address = Internet Protocol address

As was said earlier the IP address your router is given is normally dynamically allocated by the the provider from their pool when the modem/router is turned on, and can be reset from time to time by things on the network. The provider keeps a list of which address was allocated to which router at any specific time. There is another unique method of machine identification which is hardwired into the network adapter in the computer. However all of these can be spoofed to avoid detection.

[Openlaw15]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

Please keep your comments to those you know about. IP address = Internet Protocol address

As was said earlier the IP address your router is given is normally dynamically allocated by the the provider from their pool when the modem/router is turned on, and can be reset from time to time by things on the network. The provider keeps a list of which address was allocated to which router at any specific time. There is another unique method of machine identification which is hardwired into the network adapter in the computer. However all of these can be spoofed to avoid detection.

But that's the point isn't it...not many people will know how to avoid that detection, specially the computer's hardwire adaptor.