The mother dictating the order?

[t135t0]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

Hi,

Thank you for the response, being brutal and honest is the only thing i need right now..
I am unsure what i have been accused of yet as nobody will disclose that information, but i am 98% sure it is what i have mentioned. The police rang me for a chat and to ask me to attend the station to discuss it and get my point and side across, this is on jan 2nd, if they are willing to talk to me in 10 days time and not straight away that can be a positive thing. The phone number i have is only 2 weeks old and very few have it, the only way the police would have got my number is the person i threatened has retrieved it off my daughters family. Its threats to somebody who pissed me off, thats simply it. I made some very harsh comments towards her and her family etc. No death threats just being abusive.
My daughter was not in my care at the time of the messages and i do have a court order to see my daughter every fortnight and i have PR at the moment. As things stand they cant decide to not turn up, they need to make steps of their own to over turn the order get PR stripped off me. so if i leave well alone for a couple of months they could possibly be in breach, and even better if the case against me for these fb messages gets nowhere and the case gets dropped then they have no reason for contact to stop which strengthens my case furthermore.
Yes i have job hopped this past few months and i am ashamed but i havent been able to settle and choices out of my hands have been made so its not always been my decision. i have provided but court dont take CSA and your job into account i am sure of it. they are interested in contact and me sticking to the order as well as the mother. I have broken the order at times due to my anger issues by having a pop at the mother and the family but i have attended all visits required. Counselling is not part of the order but it may become part of it if and when it returns to court.
i am an idiot and have had so many chances, i come from a broken home, was in 20 diff kids homes and was abused myself as a child in many ways, not sexually but physically and mentally. I have zero trust in people and i hate to say this my life has gone completely down hill since my daughter arrived as i think im subconsciously not ready for the commitment, thats why counselling is important. Before my daughter arrived i was a power lifting, gym fanatic of 8 years, same job for 7 years and had a base and settled and i was stable. Since she popped up i have job hopped, not been the gym since april, drank and ate heavily and basically lost alot of things i had built up. but there is always time to to turn it around and change. I love my daughter with all my heart and id never ever hurt her, but my actions are making me lose her and she is literally all i have. Not a sob stroy but we all have reasons to why we act, my past is what is making me struggle, not my feelings towards her but my lack of trust in people

[leclerc]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

Hi,

Thank you for the response, being brutal and honest is the only thing i need right now..
I am unsure what i have been accused of yet as nobody will disclose that information, but i am 98% sure it is what i have mentioned. The police rang me for a chat and to ask me to attend the station to discuss it and get my point and side across, this is on jan 2nd, if they are willing to talk to me in 10 days time and not straight away that can be a positive thing. The phone number i have is only 2 weeks old and very few have it, the only way the police would have got my number is the person i threatened has retrieved it off my daughters family. Its threats to somebody who pissed me off, thats simply it. I made some very harsh comments towards her and her family etc. No death threats just being abusive.
My daughter was not in my care at the time of the messages and i do have a court order to see my
daughter every fortnight and i have PR at the moment.
When you go into the police you need to be clear that you made a stupid mistake and that you have spoken to friends who have given you a pretty good dressing down. You do realise that making threats against someone can be a criminal offence and can be that serious as to warrant a custodial sentence. On this occasion I don't think that is the case but expect to given a tough time. You need to block whoever you sent messages to because it should mean you cannot look them up on facebook and message them. The fact the child was not in your care is very very good.




As things stand they cant decide to not turn up, they need to make steps of their own to over turn the order get PR stripped off me. so if i leave well alone for a couple of months they could possibly be in breach, and even better if the case against me for these fb messages gets nowhere and the case gets dropped then they have no reason for contact to stop which strengthens my case furthermore.
Yes i have job hopped this past few months and i am ashamed but i havent been able to settle and choices out of my hands have been made so its not always been my decision. i have provided but court dont take CSA and your job into account i am sure of it. they are interested in contact and me sticking to the order as well as the mother. I have broken the order at times due to my anger issues by having a pop at the mother and the family but i have attended all visits required. Counselling is not part of the order but it may become part of it if and when it returns to court.

Attending visits is very very good. Bad fathers don't bother to go to contact so that is very good. If it is supervised then ask for the supervisor's notes which hopefully shows something positive and therefore your indiscretion is not as bad as it could be.

i am an idiot and have had so many chances, i come from a broken home, was in 20 diff kids homes and was abused myself as a child in many ways, not sexually but physically and mentally. I have zero trust in people and i hate to say this my life has gone completely down hill since my daughter arrived as i think im subconsciously not ready for the commitment, thats why counselling is important. Before my daughter arrived i was a power lifting, gym fanatic of 8 years, same job for 7 years and had a base and settled and i was stable. Since she popped up i have job hopped, not been the gym since april, drank and ate heavily and basically lost alot of things i had built up. but there is always time to to turn it around and change. I love my daughter with all my heart and id never ever hurt her, but my actions are making me lose her and she is literally all i have. Not a sob stroy but we all have reasons to why we act, my past is what is making me struggle, not my feelings towards her but my lack of trust in people

Ok, take the next week or so to put some things into perspective. Look on the internet for different types of counseling and perhaps look at coping strategies. Furthermore, you need to decide what you want from your life going forwards. Your life is not lost but you need to focus on the one thing that is important: your daughter. So what can YOU do for her next year? Deal with the issues that make you act like a complete idiot, get yourself a stable job(if things go wrong then ask for advice here on the employment forum: they're pretty good over there), do not threaten people on social media cos it might harm the most important thing in your life: your daughter. In regards to the police issue, be completely remorseful depending on the evidence they present. Admit to being drunk and regretting what you did and if need be apologise for your actions. If you have to deactivate Facebook(if you've seen Jeremy Kyle you know how much he hates that then do it until your life has picked up again.


I have got one other thing to say which is slightly off the topic we are advising about.
Currently Sir Martin Narey is doing a piece of work for the government on Children's Homes and your experience of them might be useful to him(or the greater good). Here is the information about what he is doing: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/c...ransform-lives

The document about the call for evidence on page 5 is about asking for views from people who have left residential homes: https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...r_evidence.pdf
And his website with contact details: http://www.mnarey.co.uk/contact-us.php

The last bit is merely if you would like to give a view so it is up to you if you want to participate...

[t135t0]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

Ok thanks for the feedback i do appreciate it.

So one final thing, if i do get convicted of that facebook message how much will it actually effect contact with my daughter in a centre?

[leclerc]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

I think it would be harder to get unsupervised contact because I think it would be a given that the mother's family would require it. It is possible that worst case might be a police caution rather than taking you to court. I think being very remorseful is a good thing. If the police ask about getting a duty solicitor then make sure you do have proper legal counsel with you in an interview with the police.

Remain positive and take positive steps for yourself, ok?

[t135t0]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

ye i was going to deny all but we will see what evidence they have first, and i was never going to apply for unsupervised, i was always going to request to stay in the centre so i am hoping they wont stop me cos a drunken outburst that my daughter and her fam are not at all involved in

[Openlaw15]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

Can I clarify if there is already a court order in place for contact? If that is the case then breech of that order to revoke contact without due cause and not attending counselling is not due cause to cease contact.

Now this is common sense....unless the mother has justifiable grounds for refusing contact with children, normally in free country the courts have democratic principles as democratic institutions...unless we're talking about Saudi Arabia or formerly Hussein run Iraq. Hmm, ahh that's right - the rule of law.

[t135t0]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

There has been lots of bickering between myself and her, her being stressed out at me, me making idle threats towards her family and people who she doesnt even know but she found out about has all culminated in her refusing to turn up to the centre. In the short term she kind does have grounds to not turn up to the centre but if i keep my nose clean for a few weeks and not give any excuses then in the long term i am sure she is in breach as there has been no physical threats, violence in any way or anything sexually orientated, i have never been a direct threat to my daughter....But in all honesty i really dont know. As far as i know if she wants me out of my daughters life then she needs to get an order in court to push me out, except for that i have a right to see my daughter as things stand

[Openlaw15]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

To be blunt, you are an idiot to think in that manner. You must always remember: If you post something on the internet it remains there forever.

Buy a paper and pen and when you get pissed off then write it down and go back to it later when you have calmed down and then destroy it.

It depends what you are accused of and it will depend on whether the child was in your care at the time. They can ONLY stop you seeing the child via a court order. I cannot remember whether contact is with a court order or not but unless you have harmed the child during contact or the child is of an age where their views are more weighted then you will not have a problem.

You big problem is simply that you need to find a way in which you can understand the triggers that make you do stupid things and to find a way to deal with that. Perhaps the issue of counselling is a problem of which type you have since there are many different types and that may or may not be the issue of engaging in that. In fact, if the court order made clause of going to counselling then you might be in a no win situation.

Furthermore, the mother's family CANNOT make a complaint to the police if they do not have the facebook message. I'd suggest that you perhaps deactivate your facebook profile until this situation sorts itself out.

I do want to say that I don't like the fact that you have kinda had a few jobs which does not show commitment towards making a living and supporting the child. Having said that, if they were temp jobs and the contract came to an end then so be it.
Sorry to be harsh but if we work hard for you to get contact, you should take on board our annoyance when you mess with it

How he earns his living is no concern of any one as he has the right to privacy....as long as his living provides for his daughter is the central issue and not whether he has had a few jobs. Let's not make unfair inferences.

[Openlaw15]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

Ok thanks for the feedback i do appreciate it.

So one final thing, if i do get convicted of that facebook message how much will it actually effect contact with my daughter in a centre?

A caution is not just a warning.. it's actually on your record for that particular offence, and anything you do afterwards will be affected by that caution. So think very carefully about whether to accept caution if offered. The police investigate crimes so i don't like the idea of come to the station for a chat. Have you heard the phrase' anything you say may harm your defence.' What this means any solicitor representing you in court may be limited to provide a defence for you. I would want to see what evidence the police had before I would volunteer any information or attend the police station. Stay off FB is good advice. A potential criminal defence is provocation in that you were provoked by confronting assault and battery (being held by the throat and pinned against the wall), which caused you to do what you did on FB (assuming they have evidence of this...ie person took picture of FB screen with incriminating evidence). Your child issue is a civil custody matter and FB statements relates to criminal. They are not the same thing, remind the authorities they are not the same thing too.

[leclerc]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

How he earns his living is no concern of any one as he has the right to privacy....as long as his living provides for his daughter is the central issue and not whether he has had a few jobs. Let's not make unfair inferences.

How do you know he didn't get sacked for threatening work colleagues or being verbally aggressive with his superiors? How do you think he left those jobs, did he lose his temper? Could he be prone to threats of violence(and now we are within the advice sought after)? Do you want someone who is violent around your child?

The point I was making was that previously in this thread he had stated that at one time he was in a stable job and had a life routine. At the moment, he has said he is not and that the mother of his child believe him to be someone unstable and prone to violence.

A steady job suggests that he gets on with work colleagues and that he is a regular guy making a living and supporting his child. That is what I have tried to suggest in the advice bit, ie get your life together because you are falling into the picture that the mother's family have of him.

In regards to the police thing, we are repeating the same advice. Have a solicitor with you and say nothing and get the hell off facebook.

[t135t0]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

hi,

i didnt get sacked for any threatening behavior, i just couldnt settle at these places as i had so much going on in my head

[Openlaw15]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

How do you know he didn't get sacked for threatening work colleagues or being verbally aggressive with his superiors? How do you think he left those jobs, did he lose his temper? Could he be prone to threats of violence(and now we are within the advice sought after)? Do you want someone who is violent around your child?"

This is what we call circumstantial evidence and any suggestions without reliance on facts is mere speculation. Hypothetically speaking even if op were to have showed anger to work colleagues is not by itself tantamount to affecting/ prejudicing his relationship with his daughter in that his paternal affections for his daughter were or are impeded by any random outbursts of anger against others. On the contrary one likely owes to a father and a protectorate of and to his family, and the other in relation to work colleagues may be no more than situational specific contexts. It is dangerous to use conjecture as it no more than a subjective understanding of the gentleman albeit falls so far below the criminal standards of the mens rea (guilty mind) requirement. One cannot know what another's intent is or would be except were we to be in that very person's shoes. Whilst this gentleman has contributed his personal information voluntarily it does not mean others should make disproportionate inferences unless it were the gentleman's intent to benefit from such advice albeit that advice ought to be reasonable and consider all potential scenarios otherwise it's certainly not qualified commentary.

The point I was making was that previously in this thread he had stated that at one time he was in a stable job and had a life routine. At the moment, he has said he is not and that the mother of his child believe him to be someone unstable and prone to violence.

A steady job suggests that he gets on with work colleagues and that he is a regular guy making a living and supporting his child. That is what I have tried to suggest in the advice bit, ie get your life together because you are falling into the picture that the mother's family have of him.

In regards to the police thing, we are repeating the same advice. Have a solicitor with you and say nothing and get the hell off facebook.

I would not attend a police station of my own accord unless I was arrested. I would not be too reliant on a solicitor in police station because that solicitor may in fact not be a solicitor but rather a police station representative whose presence there attracts lots of commission based on his or her representations.

[t135t0]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

thank you..but if i dont attend i have been told i will be arrested

[nemesis45]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

I would not attend a police station of my own accord unless I was arrested. I would not be too reliant on a solicitor in police station because that solicitor may in fact not be a solicitor but rather a police station representative whose presence there attracts lots of commission based on his or her representations.

Where does that little gem come from?

[leclerc]

Re: The mother dictating the order?

I would not attend a police station of my own accord unless I was arrested. I would not be too reliant on a solicitor in police station because that solicitor may in fact not be a solicitor but rather a police station representative whose presence there attracts lots of commission based on his or her representations.

To be honest, OpenLaw15, we have on the issue of threats: so harassment or malicious communication(the legalese stuff so to speak). As it was one drunken message he might be told to stop contacting them or it might amount to harassment(that is my gut reaction.

The rest of the stuff was actually about the contact issue which is not criminal court and where the burden of proof is lower. So I am the brief for the OP's ex, and I am gonna use threats of violence to suggest he may be a danger to his child so that might lead me to argue that he should have no contact with the child. I might argue aggression, the op has stated this earlier in the thread, to suggest that he is threatening during the hand off. Tell me that the OP is an upstanding member of the community who has kept a steady job(and not walked out due him being angry with one or more aspect of a job), tell me that the OP is passive and they appear to know about the social media threat as well.

OpenLaw15, when I wrote the original comment it was intended as a kick up the backside for the OP to get their act together and prove that they were not what perhaps the mother might be saying to the child that they were. The work thing is nothing to do with the criminal aspect.

The basics a court will do is to keep contact between both parents because it is in the interests of the child but the child has appeared to indicate that they do not want to go to contact. Age and understanding will have an interplay in this. However, if the father is violent then that can in some cases lead to the court deciding that it is in the best interests of the child to cease contact with that violent parent. Are we now getting it?