alleged assault, forthcoming disciplinary

[sandeman]

Re: alleged assault, forthcoming disciplinary

well of course, the union rep is on holiday. occupational hazard of the education business this time of year. At this point it is still a matter of trying to use the company system, which as i said is a bit of a juggernaut, but not necessarily inherently malign. There is a just a suggestion of homophobic bullying against one of the people making the allegation. The person from HR said she is going to be away for a couple of days, just after being asked what would happen to a college employee who coerced someone into making a false allegation.

[Johnboy007]

Re: alleged assault, forthcoming disciplinary

well of course, the union rep is on holiday. occupational hazard of the education business this time of year. At this point it is still a matter of trying to use the company system, which as i said is a bit of a juggernaut, but not necessarily inherently malign. There is a just a suggestion of homophobic bullying against one of the people making the allegation. The person from HR said she is going to be away for a couple of days, just after being asked what would happen to a college employee who coerced someone into making a false allegation.

Well at this moment in time, it looks like the college is playing 'delay tactics'.
Have you checked your company procedures?
Most procedures do have time limits for each stage.
Otherwise it could drag on for months.
I would have lodged a formal grievance about it.
This would give the college a secondary thing to worry about.:tinysmile_twink_t2:

[sandeman]

Re: alleged assault, forthcoming disciplinary

grievance already in preparation. Well, possibly several. HR were asked twice who it should be given to because line manger is...on holiday. Who his boss might be is currently unclear due to staff changes. Vice principal had just taken a new job and hasnt been replaced. Principal seems to be missing. HR have twice not answered the email, suggesting a phone call instead. When they were called previously they worked very hard to suggest it would be much better to leave any such matters for the disciplinary hearing to consider. Presently awaiting witness statements, but also since the time pressure to act this week is off, the opportunity to speak to the union man next week. Intention is to have grievance ready for instant deployment. At the moment it seems likely time favours being able to talk to more people and gather more statements.

I dont foresee a quick resolution unless the complainants are persuaded to withdraw their complaints. In one case I think this might be a very good idea, because at the moment it looks like he probably had the idea of inventing something to create a very limited fuss to get staff moved, and then college and his 'friends' blew it up. In the other case I suspect he may have been bullied by his manager, just generally, and somehow this came out of it from something he said in self defence. Perhaps his manage called him on it, trying to get an admission it was a lie, and instead he progressed it.

[wales01man]

Re: alleged assault, forthcoming disciplinary

Has this been reported to the Police?

[Johnboy007]

Re: alleged assault, forthcoming disciplinary

Has this been reported to the Police?

It is very unlikely that the police would want to get involved, until company investigations and procedures have established if there was an assault or not.

I think that sandeman should sit back for a few days and get his facts and details all sorted out.
With staff being absent for holidays, then it will drag on.
I would also advise him not to use the phone as a means of communication with HR.
Emails or recorded and signed for post, are much, much better.

[wales01man]

Re: alleged assault, forthcoming disciplinary

If anyone is assaulted as its a Criminal Offence it should be reported to the Police or is someone looking for a Payout here monetary figures are quoted on previous posts

[Johnboy007]

Re: alleged assault, forthcoming disciplinary

I think you will find, that in the vast majority of cases involving an allegation of assault in the workplace.
These are at first, dealt with by the company concerned, and by their investigation and disciplinary procedures.
Most times, the victim is satisfied by this.
If the alleged victim wishes to take the matter further, then he/she is a liberty to do so at any time.
Reporting it to the police, I would assume, depends on the severity of the assault.
A simple push is assault, but it would be very, very rare, to report this to the police.

[wales01man]

Re: alleged assault, forthcoming disciplinary

Looks to me like a claim for Compo Or a petty dispute that's got out of hand lets hope it gets sorted

[Johnboy007]

Re: alleged assault, forthcoming disciplinary

Looks to me like a claim for Compo Or a petty dispute that's got out of hand lets hope it gets sorted

I agree with you on this one.......

[sandeman]

Re: alleged assault, forthcoming disciplinary

There are two allegations here, so i guess either one might end up with police. At this stage I am pretty confident one can be disproved, with a fair chance of proving that a false allegation has been made. Certainly it can be shown that lies have been told as part of the allegation. After some examination, I think the allegation was crafted in such a way that it was intended to be thrown out at the investigation stage. Unfortunately for him the investigation was very partial and incompetently done, and then the other allegation was tacked on to it. The plan seems to have been that the accuser never intended the accused to know who had made the allegation, nor for it to proceed. But because it had been made, he would get someone moved elsewhere.

HR have been asked what would happen to someone who made such a false allegation, answer awaited with great interest.

In the other case something more than I have described here seems to have happened, requiring college to consult lawyers. They seem to be keeping this secret, so seems a good idea to keep looking into it. The immediate manager concerned has a reputation as a bully, and there is no statement from him about the events when the allegation was made, which there ought to be.

In this case, it would fit the facts that someone was looking for a payoff, because it would have to have been entrapment into a situation where a claim could be made that an assault had taken place. The alternative possible explanation, as I see it, is bullying by the manager which maneuvered the complainant into saying something false in his own defence, and then forced him to press the complaint.

The recently appointed head of HR is reported as having said, 'when I took this job I did not realise just how many complaints there were, and serious ones too'. This may be a consequence of their apparent policy of treating their investigations as an exercise in preparing evidence for the prosection, and not for the defence. In both cases statements say the complainants initially refused to make formal complaints further than simply reporting the event, but were persuaded (presumably by management) to do so.

[Johnboy007]

Re: alleged assault, forthcoming disciplinary

Just study and follow the procedures.
If it drags on for too long, then you can ask for the case to be dismissed.
Companies should deal with any disciplinary procedure, within a reasonable time limit.
What is a reasonable time limit?
What a reasonable person would consider as fair.
aw:

[bluebottle]

Re: alleged assault, forthcoming disciplinary

With regard to the assault, what exactly happened? As far as HR go, in many cases, they can make a bad situation a whole lot worse. Their mantra appears to be "Save the employer's arse at all costs." If only they took a neutral stance, there would be fewer cases likely to end up before ETs.

[sandeman]

Re: alleged assault, forthcoming disciplinary

What actually happened? well now, thats a question I'd love to know the answer to. Since neither assault actually happened, nothing. I am not sure what you need the information for? One seems to have been pure fiction, but something which could have happened, the other an actual situation which was changed around in the two versions. So just depends who you believe. never mind an allegation about something which happened months ago so video footage is lost, I just love the bit about deleting it after 4 days. instead of a month. You couldnt make it up. If it wasnt for the fact their video system is notoriously unreliable whenever anyone actually needs it, I'd start asking questions about who is responsible for it. Hmm. Actually, there just might be something in that....

Since this does describe a real case happening now and there is a question of confidentiality, some of the details have been changed, just in case anyone might recognise themselves. The real case is more complex.

[bluebottle]

Re: alleged assault, forthcoming disciplinary

Being an ex-copper, when I read the word "assault", my first thought was whether actual violence took place or whether it was only a threat of violence. In the legal sense, Assault is the threat to use unlawful force against another or putting them in fear of having unlawful force used against them. Battery is the actual use of unlawful force.

A threat can be classed as assault, or harassment or a simple Breach of the Peace. Unless actual violence was used against someone and it can be evidenced by means of eye-witness testimony, ideally, substantiated by CCTV footage, the employer really does need to tread very carefully indeed.

[sandeman]

Re: alleged assault, forthcoming disciplinary

well another difficulty with the case is that the investigation certainly did not go into the fine distinction of what exactly the incident amounted to. Where a boundary line might be between acceptable behaviour and something more. It did not go past the impasse on whether or not it happened at all to the further question of what was claimed to have happened might amount to. This was another can of worms.

I'm not sure what you mean by treading carefully? As best I know, there is no independant evidence of any sort that either assault took place. Just the word of the person claiming to have been assaulted. The investigation concluded that because two people had made similar claims about different incidents, it was probably true.

As far as I have been able to find out so far, i dont see why the employer needs to tread very carefully indeed? At worst they wrongfully dismiss someone and then have to pay a fine quite possibly no bigger than wages would have been for a long suspension. More cost effective just to fire em and hire someone else.