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Plumber - Contract

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  • #16
    Thank you.

    So far I have only gotten as far as getting a quote from the other plumber, but I do not understand the defence and counter claim process very well and how much time I have to do these things. Would I simply defend for now and then only counter claim once the work was done, or do I have to counter claim at the same time I defend?

    With the tenant agreeing to 14 days before I fully replied and promising to provide the invoice I thought I would have chance to get better prepared but obviously he has pushed this forward so now feel like I am scrambling a bit.

    Comment


    • #17
      Once you have acknowledged the claim you have to the 15th ish of April to file any defence and/or counterclaim. ( it's 28 days from service - 33 from issue - but I've played it safe with the defence date -if the claimant has used the new beta online system then when you acknowledge it should tell you the relevant date ). Counterclaim goes in at same time of defence.

      so you have plenty of time ... issuing a claim is ridiculously easy with the new system and costs are low ( it would have cost him £25 to issue the claim ) so possibly he's panicked about you insisting on the invoice and thought a court claim would get him out the pickle and stress you into paying him.

      just make sure you acknowledge it.
      “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

      Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

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      Comment


      • #18
        I received a response to my email this evening. He said:

        I am not sure why you are sending this to me when you know that I have shown them to you when you came around. I can bring them to court with me. It would be better if you just pay me what you owe me now and then this can stop. Why should I have to pay and then you not pay me back.
        I appreciate that he has more time to reconsider his position, but it does not sound as if he is planning to send me anything.

        Are there any other steps that I can take, or should I just focus on drafting a defence?

        I did some reading on CPR 31.14 and I saw that it may mean he cannot use the documents in court (not that I think they exist), but I have also read various articles which state that the judges can be very lenient with applying the rules in the small claims court.

        Comment


        • #19
          So have to ask, DID he show you them when you went round ? I'd guess at NO but just be be certain.

          Dont respond to his email for a couple days ..let him have a ponder .... might be a good idea to stick to hard copy anyway - more formal that way. Let's have a think anyway asvto next step...


          overview then...

          there was a plumbing issue ( you were away )
          he asked if he could get a plumber in
          you asked for a quote
          he said £120 quote
          you said go ahead
          he came back and said £298 but provided no evidence or invoice / receipt
          plus the work wasn't done to a plumber standard ( in your opinion)
          youve had a proper quote to rectify and fix original issue of £xxxx ( have you got that in writing? )

          happy to reimburse him for the original plumber but you need plumbers details for records/vat/evidence and to potentially take up the shoddy work with the plumber.


          On the downside from your end - not asking for the quote in writing and checking out the proposed tradesman beforehand ....

          ummm yip that's it everything else is against the tenant.
          “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

          Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

          Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

          If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page

          Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

          Comment


          • #20
            Thank you for all your help. Just to answer your points.

            Originally posted by Amethyst View Post
            So have to ask, DID he show you them when you went round ? I'd guess at NO but just be be certain.
            No, absolutely not. Also, he is refusing to even name the plumber, again claiming that he can't do so because of GDPR, but I can only assume that if he had an invoice, it would have the plumber's details on it (and he claims to have shown that to me).

            Originally posted by Amethyst View Post
            Dont respond to his email for a couple days ..let him have a ponder .... might be a good idea to stick to hard copy anyway - more formal that way. Let's have a think anyway asvto next step...


            OK, I will leave for now.


            Originally posted by Amethyst View Post
            overview then...

            there was a plumbing issue ( you were away )
            he asked if he could get a plumber in
            you asked for a quote
            he said £120 quote
            you said go ahead
            he came back and said £298 but provided no evidence or invoice / receipt
            plus the work wasn't done to a plumber standard ( in your opinion)
            youve had a proper quote to rectify and fix original issue of £xxxx ( have you got that in writing? )

            happy to reimburse him for the original plumber but you need plumbers details for records/vat/evidence and to potentially take up the shoddy work with the plumber.


            Yes that's all correct. The only clarifications I would make are that I live away from the property permanently, and I originally offered to get somebody in, but tenant suggested that he knew somebody who could do it. Also, I do have the rectification quote in writing. When the tenant told me that he wouldn't give me the name of the plumber, I asked him to ask the plumber to come back himself, but he refused to do so, until I paid him the full amount (which is £283).


            The only other thing I would say is that I don't feel that I should have to pay more than the originally quote £120 as the tenant never came back to notify me of an increase, but I'm not sure where I stand on that legally.




            Comment


            • #21
              http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...ion/15/enacted

              15 Exemptions etc

              (1)Schedules 2, 3 and 4 make provision for exemptions from, and restrictions and adaptations of the application of, rules of the GDPR.

              (2)In Schedule 2—

              (a)Part 1 makes provision adapting or restricting the application of rules contained in Articles 13 to 21 and 34 of the GDPR in specified circumstances, as allowed for by Article 6(3) and Article 23(1) of the GDPR;

              (b)Part 2 makes provision restricting the application of rules contained in Articles 13 to 21 and 34 of the GDPR in specified circumstances, as allowed for by Article 23(1) of the GDPR;


              http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...dule/2/enacted

              SCHEDULE 2
              Exemptions etc from the GDPR

              Information required to be disclosed by law etc or in connection with legal proceedings

              5(3)The listed GDPR provisions do not apply to personal data where disclosure of the data—

              (a)is necessary for the purpose of, or in connection with, legal proceedings (including prospective legal proceedings),

              (b)is necessary for the purpose of obtaining legal advice, or

              (c)is otherwise necessary for the purposes of establishing, exercising or defending legal rights,

              to the extent that the application of those provisions would prevent the controller from making the disclosure.
              CAVEAT LECTOR

              This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

              You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
              Cohen, Herb


              There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
              gets his brain a-going.
              Phelps, C. C.


              "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
              The last words of John Sedgwick

              Comment


              • #22

                Thank you.

                If the tenant continues to refuse to name the plumber or provide the paperwork, do you think I would be better

                1) Trying to get the court to compel him to do so, or
                2) Simply going to the final hearing and pointing out that it hasn't been provided

                I am concerned that if I simply defend and let it go all the way, he might try to pass something off at the hearing, and that I would also not be able to issue a counter claim against the plumber.

                I am going to start trying to draft something.

                Do I state that:

                a) He has failed to prove his loss by failing to provide the paperwork
                b) He is not entitled to £283 because only £120 was agreed
                c) That he is not entitled to the £120 because the work has not been completed, and so should not have made any payment
                d) That there was an agency agreement between us

                Comment


                • #23
                  Hello.

                  I just wondered if anybody had any thoughts on the start of my defence drafting above.

                  Also, I wondered if anybody could please advise on the impact of the CPR 31.14 letter, if the tenant continues to refuse to provide the information.

                  If he eventually provides paperwork to the court, does it matter if he did not provide it (and actually refused to provide it) in response to the letter?

                  If he does now provide something to me, and I agree to pay him (either the £120 or £283, or some other figure) will I therefore be admitting liability to the claim, and what does that do in terms of the claim and judgement and costs?

                  Or, does my liability only begin once he actually provides me with the paperwork? So can I see "I agree that I liable from today, but I was not liable when you started the claim, so your claim should not succeed"?

                  What should be straightforward becomes very complicated, just because I don't understand the court process.






                  Last edited by Yvette123; 22nd March 2019, 15:27:PM.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    He is not permitted to just provide the paperwork at court,

                    Comment

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