**CASE CLOSED** Court Claim - Lowell/Vanquis - 15-1-2015

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Court Claim - Lowell / Vanquis - 15-1-2015

Hi all, well 12+2 days has passed, nice chaps at Lowell are asking Lloyds for the original CCA...hmm, thanks, point no 1. this is sb'd anyway (not even on my credit file) point 2, they have chased the wrong the cca. I was going to fire off a letter stating the 12+2 days has passed so they are in breach, would this be ok? i don't intent to send off another £1 fee with me giving them the details (i am not working for them!) of the account they should know about anyway, given that they enter it no my credit file every month..

Hi
No, there's no need to chase up the CCA request as non-compliance is a bar to enforcement and you will put that in your defence.

The one to chase is the request under CPR 31.14, if they don't respond within 7 days you should ask them that, as you need the documents to prepare the defence, you'd like them to agree to a 28 day extension to file your defence as allowed under CPR 15.5. You can do this by email and chase up by phone if necessary to save time. hone:

[beaconsman]

Re: Court Claim - Lowell / Vanquis - 15-1-2015

Hi, sorry, there has been a mis understanding, no claim has been issued. I just want the original CCA for the account that Lowells are harassing me about. Its the same account (under a different number) than BWL lost the claim with before. I would like to to see the original credit agreement thats all. I also want to tie lowells up so at the moment, there is a breach of my request for the CCA. I'll fire a letter off tomorrow and see what they say. Ive not yet sent yet a CPR request as there is no claim (yet).

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Court Claim - Lowell / Vanquis - 15-1-2015

Hi, sorry, there has been a mis understanding, no claim has been issued. I just want the original CCA for the account that Lowells are harassing me about. Its the same account (under a different number) than BWL lost the claim with before. I would like to to see the original credit agreement thats all. I also want to tie lowells up so at the moment, there is a breach of my request for the CCA. I'll fire a letter off tomorrow and see what they say. Ive not yet sent yet a CPR request as there is no claim (yet).

Ah, in that case the process is clearly different.

Sorry, the thread is headed 'Court Claim - Lowell / Vanquis...' which gives the impression a we're dealing with a live claim. Must debt threads on this site relate to live claims so I'm used to those.

Can you just remind us (as it's a rather long thread ), when you say BW Legal 'lost the claim', did it go all the way to court and you won? or did they just discontinue?

[Kati]

Re: Court Claim - Lowell / Vanquis - 15-1-2015

Can you just remind us (as it's a rather long thread ), when you say BW Legal 'lost the claim', did it go all the way to court and you won? or did they just discontinue?

Post #1:

Received a claim? Yes
Issue Date: 15-1-2015
Amount approx: 304
Claimant: Lowell
Solicitor: BW Legal
Original Credit: Vanquis

Particulars of Claim:
The claimants claim is for the sum of ﾣ303-95 being monies due from the defendant to the claimant under store cards agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 between the defendant and vanquish bank limited under acc ref.......
and assigned to the claimant on 05-09-14 notice of which has been given to the defendant.
The defendant failed to maintain the contractual payment under the terms of the agreement and a default notice has been served and complied with.
The claim also includes statutory interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum (a assignment of the agreement to 13-01-2015 being an amount of ﾣ6.55

Stat Barred? No

Have sent: Acknowledged the Claim, Sent a CCA request, Sent a CPR 31.14 request

Other Info:
CPR will be Sent recorded mon 19th Jan 2015
CCA sent recorded (with ﾣ1 fee) on mon 19th Jan 2015 Postal order crossed and made to Lowlifes, with only to be used for stat cca fee"..
AoS will be sent Monday 19th Jan 2015
I intend to defend the claim.

Post #9:

I have called them (BW Legal) but to no avail. I let a cci go on my account in 06 under default as we moved and British Gas got me for ﾣ39! I wold like to go through the process as I was terrified when the claim form arrived yesterday. (saturday). IS the likelihood in anywise I would get a judgement, and should i still send off the AOS, CCA/CPR requests?..bearingin mind I haven idea about payments as since have swapped banks but I know I couldn't afford to pay it off and certainly cant afford much as I dont ear, so inthrone my wife would be paying it off. Just wondered on my course of action.

I have already started compiling a defence, I will post up later, been a bit worried about this and my credit was shot, and was slowly and surely getting there, only thing i have is mortgage (up to date) and mobbed phone contract (vodafone) since 2010 up to date. no loans etc...

Obviously If a default notice had been issued i would tried to comet some arrangement rather than let it go to this stage, They have forced my hand so I intend to defend it..

Few things, CPR request goes to the solicitors (BWLegal) recorded? (will be Posted tomorrow)
CCA to Lowell recorded (with ﾣ1 fee) (will be posted tomorrow)
AoS Recorded to Nottingham Court? (posted tomorrow to Nottingham court address, 4th floor St Katharines street etc..)
Need help with dates for defence etc..Claim was issued 15th Jan 2015 (arrived Saturday, yesterday)
Just making sure I admiring everything correctly.

Post #77:

BW Legal
"If you do not reply to us or reply to the County Court Claim, we may enter a CCJ agains you after 4th February 2015.

Call us immediately on..... and one of our helpful agents can set up an affordable payment arrangement for you"

Aw how sweet. Tell you what, get the CCA first, as I want to see my signature on an agreement for a store card with vanquis..



Yes, I was told I have until 17th Feb though?

My defence, not sure yet, I scribbled a few things down, CCA request non compliant?
Never had a store card in my life
Dont recognise the account no..?
Never received a Default notice prior to the Claim being issued. (letter before action not issued therefore not combining with practice direction?)
The claim form isnt signed by wet ink only by the company in font.

Post #107:

Update:
Received a letter today (18th Feb) dated 13th Feb (the day I entered my defence).
Court has acknowledge defence. A copy is being served on claimant etc.. The claimant may contact you directly to resolve any dispute....If dispute cannot be resolved informally, then claimant will inform the court they wish to proceed.

Where he wishes to proceed the claimant must contact the court within 28 days after receiving a copy of defence. After that period has elapsed, the claim will be stayed. The only action the claimant can then take will be to apply to a judge for an order lifting the stay...

from HM Courts & Tribunal Service.

Guess I now wait until they have seen my defence..Oh goody!

Post #108:

UPDATE..GOOD NEWS!

18th March, from BWL "Further to previous correspondence regarding the above matter we enclose herewith by way of service upon you a Notice of Discontinuance and confirm the original has been filed with the Court...

Thats it then. all over?

Post #115:

Morning all, Well, I'm back again. Yup, lowlifes have been in contact via mail. This time it seems they have done their research properly and got the account number correct. As it is a different account number, I cant really say it has already been the subject of a CCJ claim. I therefore will have to offer something, I dont work, am a stay at home dad as my wife is covering all bills (just) with her wage. Just wonder what my first initial step should be. I have recently lost a relative so wont be dealign with this immediately. Have to travel to Wales on Wednesday for funeral so this isn't a priority for me. Thanks again. (Uni has finished for the summer so can deal with this without worrying about deadlines).

:tinysmile_twink_t2:

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Court Claim - Lowell / Vanquis - 15-1-2015

Thanks, Kati. Very thorough! :clap2:

Having read he above posts, I'd say if they were to issue another claim for the same debt it would constitute abuse of process. They may not quote the same account number but if it's the same credit product and amount, it could be easily established it's the same debt.

One thing that caught my eye on post #1 was the bit of the PoC where it refers to a "store cards agreement". Vanquis has never been a storecard, has it? :confused2:

[beaconsman]

Re: Court Claim - Lowell / Vanquis - 15-1-2015

Originally, they discontinued.
Update as of 12th Sept. This morning I received the agreement in the post along with the full statement of account. I requested this a long time back, (in July). I sent them a non compliance letter BEFORE i got this in the post. They are now requesting a payment plan (they have stopped collections activity on the account for 30 days) so wonder as they breached the original CCA request, what should I do now, I plan to return to work next year and would like my credit file to be more or less back on track its all clear bar this one. Total owing is £300 although last statement of accounts show £200. Sorry for the late response, been away dealign with a family matter.

RE: abuse of process, how would I go about arguing this? I feel they are smiling smuggly at the moment but they have defaulted not the original request surely? Just found the receipt for the postal order and recorded post, 15th July 2015, nearly a whole 2 months later they send me this which is breach surely as my letter posted some time ago stated.

I believe the response time for a CCA is 12 + 2 days? Mine was sent on the 15th July and today is the 12th September....not even close. They also initially sent me letter stating they were waiting to hear from Lloyds which was a very old account and has long since disappeared. Then they send the CCA for the one they tried to chase back in Feb with the wrong account details, now with correct details (acc no) but the "alleged" copies they sent me spelt Laboratory Technician spelt LABORITRY TECKNISHION is dubious. My literacy is fairly good!

Found this on another post on the site, wonder if I can go down this avenue in my next letter.

A comment was made
in Bradford and Bingley Building Society v Seddon [1999] 1 WLR 1482 that abuse of process cases of
this nature will perhaps be less frequent under the CPR, because of the requirement that the
claimant must sign a statement of truth in relation to the second claim, which might be
difficult given an earlier, inconsistent, claim.

Just found a copy of the letter I sent last week.
I refer to my letter dated 15^th July 2015 in which I made a formal request under the Consumer credit act 1974 sec 77-79 for true copies of the regulated agreement referred to in previous correspondence. You are reminded that you are obliged to supply these under sec.189 whether you are the original creditor or not. I also enclosed the statutory fee of £1.00 for this account.

To date you have failed to comply with my statutory request and have defaulted in respect of this account. Additionally this alleged agreement is unenforceable until such time as the default is removed or enforced by a court of law. It is a further offence to attempt to enforce this alleged agreement until such time as the default is removed.

It is now my intention to report this matter to the appropriate enforcement authority.

I await your prompt response.

Sorry for the long post, the letter from lowells is dated 9th september 2015, However, the letter from Vanquis is dated 14th March 2015. I never CCA'd vanquis in March and believe this is from Lowells dating back to the first claim by BW way back in February...confused.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Court Claim - Lowell / Vanquis - 15-1-2015

Originally, they discontinued.
Update as of 12th Sept. This morning I received the agreement in the post along with the full statement of account. I requested this a long time back, (in July). I sent them a non compliance letter BEFORE i got this in the post. They are now requesting a payment plan (they have stopped collections activity on the account for 30 days) so wonder as they breached the original CCA request, what should I do now, I plan to return to work next year and would like my credit file to be more or less back on track its all clear bar this one. Total owing is £300 although last statement of accounts show £200. Sorry for the late response, been away dealign with a family matter.

I see that they issued a claim in January which was discontinued in March. Have they issued a new claim?

It would also help if you could post up the alleged agreement. :typing:

RE: abuse of process, how would I go about arguing this? I feel they are smiling smuggly at the moment but they have defaulted not the original request surely? Just found the receipt for the postal order and recorded post, 15th July 2015, nearly a whole 2 months later they send me this which is breach surely as my letter posted some time ago stated.

That would only apply if they issued a new claim.

I believe the response time for a CCA is 12 + 2 days? Mine was sent on the 15th July and today is the 12th September....not even close. They also initially sent me letter stating they were waiting to hear from Lloyds which was a very old account and has long since disappeared.

That's correct but unenforceability under ss.77-79 of the CCA only lasts for as long as the breach remains, they can remedy the breach at any time by responding to your request, the account is not forever unenforceable just because they didn't respond within the 12+2 timescale. :nono:

Then they send the CCA for the one they tried to chase back in Feb with the wrong account details, now with correct details (acc no) but the "alleged" copies they sent me spelt Laboratory Technician spelt LABORITRY TECKNISHION is dubious. My literacy is fairly good!

At first I thought it was German! :eek2: That's not the sort of mistake one commonly makes when writing or typing, more a phonetic spelling, the sort of thing someone who's half illiterate would write if you were dictating to them. :typing: Did you apply over the phone? hone:

Found this on another post on the site, wonder if I can go down this avenue in my next letter.

A comment was made
in Bradford and Bingley Building Society v Seddon [1999] 1 WLR 1482 that abuse of process cases of
this nature will perhaps be less frequent under the CPR, because of the requirement that the
claimant must sign a statement of truth in relation to the second claim, which might be
difficult given an earlier, inconsistent, claim.

Abuse of process would only apply if a new claim was issued. Asking you to pay does not constitute abuse of process.

Just found a copy of the letter I sent last week.
I refer to my letter dated 15^th July 2015 in which I made a formal request under the Consumer credit act 1974 sec 77-79 for true copies of the regulated agreement referred to in previous correspondence. You are reminded that you are obliged to supply these under sec.189 whether you are the original creditor or not. I also enclosed the statutory fee of £1.00 for this account.

To date you have failed to comply with my statutory request and have defaulted in respect of this account. Additionally this alleged agreement is unenforceable until such time as the default is removed or enforced by a court of law. It is a further offence to attempt to enforce this alleged agreement until such time as the default is removed.

It is now my intention to report this matter to the appropriate enforcement authority.

I await your prompt response.

Who were you going to report the matter to? There seems to be a bit of a confusion here regarding enforcement, :confused2: there is no authority that can enforce a CCA request; if they can't respond, then it's THEM who can't enforce the debt in court and that's a matter for your defence.

The above wording is also more than a little outdated now, in McGuffick it was established that recording a default does not amount to enforcement and not complying with a CCA request has not been an offence since 2008 I think it was.

Sorry for the long post, the letter from lowells is dated 9th september 2015, However, the letter from Vanquis is dated 14th March 2015. I never CCA'd vanquis in March and believe this is from Lowells dating back to the first claim by BW way back in February...confused.

Lowell would have gone back to Vanquis to ask for the documents at the time you sent your request.

You mention a FIRST claim, have they issued a second one?

[beaconsman]

Re: Court Claim - Lowell / Vanquis - 15-1-2015

The agreement they have sent me is 19 pages long and is a copy of the credit agreement with VAnquis (a standard one which looks like to have been printed off.) It includes two pages of account statements with charges.

Just done a bit of digging, Lowell have sent a copy of the information directly from Vanquis's own web site.

http://www.vanquis.co.uk/~/media/van...415_print.ashx


Along with 2 pages of statements (the charges are horrendous) Prior to leaving my job in 2012 the biggest payment i made was £151 as this was half the balance, however, with charges etc Lowells/vanquis say it is now £303, how can this be when I paid 50% of the balance off in 2012? another matter.

This account is basically the same one that BWL on behalf of Lowell went for back in February with a Claim.
Only they had the account no. wrong and it was discontinued.
Lowells have started again only the acc no is now correct and they allegedly sent me the original CCA, which is dubious given the spelling mistake mentioned previously.

No claim from Lowell as of yet, it is the only account showing default on my CF.

Based upon the fact that this account was already claimed upon, can they go after it again? Noticed that it is Lowells so surely they cannot issue a claim again for this default. I also do not work therefore have no income. My wife supports me and has done since 2012. The only thing I have is a tuition fee loan for my uni courses.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Court Claim - Lowell / Vanquis - 15-1-2015

The agreement they have sent me is 19 pages long and is a copy of the credit agreement with VAnquis (a standard one which looks like to have been printed off.) It includes two pages of account statements with charges.

Just done a bit of digging, Lowell have sent a copy of the information directly from Vanquis's own web site.

http://www.vanquis.co.uk/~/media/van...415_print.ashx

Along with 2 pages of statements (the charges are horrendous) Prior to leaving my job in 2012 the biggest payment i made was £151 as this was half the balance, however, with charges etc Lowells/vanquis say it is now £303, how can this be when I paid 50% of the balance off in 2012? another matter.

It would be interesting to see if those terms actually apply to your account.

When did you take out the card? Did you apply online? The charges are one way to find out whether what you were actually charged matches what that those terms you have received state they would charge.

This account is basically the same one that BWL on behalf of Lowell went for back in February with a Claim.
Only they had the account no. wrong and it was discontinued.
Lowells have started again only the acc no is now correct and they allegedly sent me the original CCA, which is dubious given the spelling mistake mentioned previously.

No claim from Lowell as of yet, it is the only account showing default on my CF.

Based upon the fact that this account was already claimed upon, can they go after it again? Noticed that it is Lowells so surely they cannot issue a claim again for this default. I also do not work therefore have no income. My wife supports me and has done since 2012. The only thing I have is a tuition fee loan for my uni courses.

They can issue a new claim if there is new evidence that wasn't available before, however, whether an agreement downloaded from the Vanquis website actually constitutes new evidence is questionable.

[beaconsman]

Re: Court Claim - Lowell / Vanquis - 15-1-2015

Yes I applied online.
I believe I took the card out in feb 2012

The only "agreement" they have sent is the "Digital Signature application details" which is where the spelling mistakes are. At the time, I was a lab tech so I would have spelt my own job description correctly.

On the plus side, thanks to the statements, I am owed £160 ish from vanquis in charges which I believe are refundable. Looks like its gonna be a good fight, haven't even calculated the mis sold repayment option plan charges..oh goody, I do like paperwork trails.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Court Claim - Lowell / Vanquis - 15-1-2015

Yes I applied online.
I believe I took the card out in feb 2012

The only "agreement" they have sent is the "Digital Signature application details" which is where the spelling mistakes are. At the time, I was a lab tech so I would have spelt my own job description correctly.

On the plus side, thanks to the statements, I am owed £160 ish from vanquis in charges which I believe are refundable. Looks like its gonna be a good fight, haven't even calculated the mis sold repayment option plan charges..oh goody, I do like paperwork trails.

Digital signature applications are acceptable for accounts opened on or after Jan 2005, however, the fact they've made such a mistake with your job description would seem to indicate they haven't actually retrieved the details applicable to your account. I find that mistake rather odd, it something that would only happen if you told someone verbally that's what you did for living and they didn't know how to spell it, if it was written somewhere how come they didn't just copy it instead of using the phonetic spelling. Lowell are a bag of tricks like no other!

[beaconsman]

Re: Court Claim - Lowell / Vanquis - 15-1-2015

So, advice on my next course of action?

VAnquis will be getting hit with my demand for charges to be refunded, so basically once this has been done, then the PPi/ROP charges, Lowells willa actually owe me money.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Court Claim - Lowell / Vanquis - 15-1-2015

So, advice on my next course of action?

VAnquis will be getting hit with my demand for charges to be refunded, so basically once this has been done, then the PPi/ROP charges, Lowells willa actually owe me money.

I'd suggest checking the terms they sent you to see if there are discrepancies between the amounts charged and actual charges. Then if Lowell contact you again you can say that the alleged agreement they sent you isn't really the one that applied at the time you took out the card, I suspect the terms would have probably changed since 2012. I'd also argue that is not an honest and accurate recon because you wouldn't have mis-spelled your own job description.

Let's see what their next move is. :ranger:

[beaconsman]

Re: Court Claim - Lowell / Vanquis - 15-1-2015

Great, Ill get a letter sent off this week to Lowells, stating the account is in dispute, should I mention my intention ti claim back the charges or is that just between Vanquis, not Lowell.

[MIKE770]

Re: Court Claim - Lowell / Vanquis - 15-1-2015

I finished off a paragraph to lowells once i.e:- there is also an outstanding dispute over charges which out-ways stated alledged amount , they seem to quieten down considerable with just begging letters from time to time. Threats seemed to have been removed.??/ just a comment!