Landmark (ex NRAM)

[Arcadian]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

Was the house just in your sister's name or does / did she have a partner?

Assuming just in her name, so she now has 8k arriving in her bank account and 38k of debt.

I suggest asking the DCA that now owns the Co-op credit card debt to produce the CCA agreement for it.

You started off by asking "But I need to know what proportion of any net income after essential expenditure can be allocated to relatives before the rest is offered as an arrangement to the institutions? "

The answer to that is there is no reason why debts to relatives should have any priority over other unsecured debts.

Given her low income it doesn't sound as though there will be any spare income anyway. I would be thinking of using the 8k for settlement offers to her debts.

It was just in her name.
She won't have any equity arriving in her bank account, she still owes that 8k to Landmark as it represents the personal loan element. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

I assumed that relatives might have equal priority to institutions but was worried that it might actually be that relatives are treated as a lower priority. I wasn't even sure that relatives could be included in any formal arrangement. That was clarified earlier in the thread, so that's good news really.

I do still need to know how we are allowed to calculate her average income when making offers, bearing in mind that although she is currently earning 150 a day, she hadn't been getting much work at all over the last calendar year...

Good advice re. The CCA on the credit card, I'd already suggested to her that she needed to do it as soon as the house was sorted.
Edit: DCA does not own the credit card debt, they are "managing" it for the bank.

Any advice on the new redemption sum that was received with the court fees added? And what that means for the court possession proceedings?

sorry this is so complex, but that's just the way it is...

[Diana M]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

Having "completed" last Monday, the selling conveyancer has since received a new redemption statement that is some £823 more than the last one. They imagine that this is due to the legal costs of the County Court action being added on.

The conveyancer is is concerned that Landshark will not "release the mortgage" until this is paid.

Your sister should ask her solicitor what the extra £823 is for if an accurate redemption statement had already been sent to the firm handling the conveyancing of the sale of her property.

Redemption statements tend to have a 28 day 'shelf life'. If anything new occurs during that prediction period then the conveyancers would be informed.

If it's an error then her solicitor will deal with this issue.

You say you "imagine" this is for the legal costs of the possession proceedings her lender commenced prior to completion. She needs to know if that is the case.

Without seeing the paperwork it's hard to comment, but if possession proceedings were issued prior to the completion of the sale (what is the date on the summons for possession?) then your sister will need to establish whether there is/was provisions in the Terms and Conditions of her mortgage/loan for the lender to recover these costs. Sadly there usually is.

You say the sale "completed" last Friday. Has it?

If the mortgage (i.e. charge on the property) has not been satisfied them I'm not sure the sale has been completed.

Has the purchaser been given the keys and have they moved in to the property?

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

The house was sold for the same amount as the unsecured redemption value that was sent to us by Landmark

Is that a coincidence or is/was that the market value of the property?

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

. . . . "what proportion of any net income after essential expenditure can be allocated to relatives before the rest is offered as an arrangement to the institutions? "

The answer to that is there is no reason why debts to relatives should have any priority over other unsecured debts.

Without seeing the paperwork I'm inclined to agree with that view.

Arcadian were any of these family loans formalized in writing with interest due and 'to be repaid by' deadlines?

If they were loans on the property the family members who lent the money could/should have placed a charge on the property at the Land Registry.

What (if anything) was put in writing?

If family members chose to pursue these loans though the court systems (it happens) that's what would need to be established.

I'm assuming your sister/her family members would like to have these loans recognized as official.

Did you personally lend your sister any money for the purchase of the property or to sustain the ongoing mortgage payments?

Di

[Arcadian]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

Is that a coincidence or is/was that the market value of the property?

Di

Both really. The house had been put on the market more than 2 years ago at a professionally assessed value, it failed to attract any interest. The price was reduced and a sale agreed in the summer, hence why we moved her out. It fell through at the last minute, even after an 11th hour reduction on the (spurious) claim of damp.
Other properties of a broadly similar type on the same road have been put on the market for less and have failed to sell.
So yes, when it became clear that an urgent sale was required before inevitable possession proceedings were started, the value of the house became essentially whatever we could get for it above what the mortgage company said they needed to clear the secured debt.

The sale has completed and the new owner is in possession of the property. They have been fully appraised of the ongoing situation. I don't expect they have full title yet from the Land Registry as this takes a few weeks?

To answer your other question, my sister does not have any debts owed to me. That's why I'm best placed to sort this out while trying to represent everyone's interests as fairly as possible, as far as I'm concerned.

NEWS IN THIS AFTERNOON, letter received from Landmark solicitors stating "We have been instructed by our clients to adjourn the above possession proceedings generally with liberty to restore". This suggests to me that they have recognised that the property has been sold and the monies received? Although they might still try to collect the added legal costs by some other method?

[Diana M]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

when it became clear that an urgent sale was required before inevitable possession proceedings were started, the value of the house became essentially whatever we could get for it above what the mortgage company said they needed to clear the secured debt.

The sale has completed and the new owner is in possession of the property. They have been fully appraised of the ongoing situation.

I'm glad to hear the that

It's stressful completing on sales/purchasers when there's a last minute legal glitch meaning removal vans are parked outside.

Was the buyer sourced through an estate agent or are they known to the family?

I'm asking because an agent will expect their fees/commission to be paid on the day of completion by the seller's solicitor. Or is that money going to be outstanding too?

Di

[Arcadian]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

Fortunately no agent fees as the buyer was known to the family already.

[Debt Camel]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

It was just in her name.
She won't have any equity arriving in her bank account, she still owes that 8k to Landmark as it represents the personal loan element.

This is a long thread and I am late to it, so I may have missed something.

But if this is the unsecured part of the Together loan, then AFAIK unless she has specifically consented to something else, this the money will not be paid to them but to her. They have no priority over other unsecured creditors.

Can the relatives document the 20k borrowing? eg bank transfers?

[Diana M]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

no agent fees as the buyer was known to the family already.

I had a feeling that was the case from the beginning of your thread hence my question.

This is why I have been asking those other questions about conflict of interest before advising 'you' what your sister should do if other family members who had lent her money (and who are/were seeking to recover it by a sale of her property) were involved. You said it was a reluctant sale.

You gave the impression that your sister is financially naive, so would she like to join the forum where she'll get direct help and support? It's always easier to talk direct to the person with the debt issue.

Di

[Arcadian]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

I had a feeling that was the case from the beginning of your thread hence my question.

This is why I have been asking those other questions about conflict of interest before advising 'you' what your sister should do if other family members who had lent her money (and who are/were seeking to recover it by a sale of her property) were involved. You said it was a reluctant sale.

You gave the impression that your sister is financially naive, so would she like to join the forum where she'll get direct help and support? It's always easier to talk direct to the person with the debt issue.

Di

1. Find out where I said it was a reluctant sale.
2. Realise that I didn't, and apologise.

You clearly don't take the time to read and fully understand the issues, otherwise you'd know that the sale of the house gets us no further towards "recovering the debt". It just means that none of the debt is secured anymore, so there is no chance of possession of assets being saught.

I didn't ever say the sale was reluctant. It was her choice to resign from her well paid job and put her house on the market without any plan of how to pay the mortgage and service her debts in the meantime.

I really dont don't know why you have a problem with a family pulling together and trying to deal with debts?

I realise you do this on here for free, but it's no excuse for your apparent defamatory statements based on your misunderstanding of what's clearly written above?

http://legalbeagles.info/forums/sear...earchid=123538

[Diana M]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

. . . and apologise.

You clearly don't take the time to read and fully understand the issues

. . . I realise you do this on here for free, but it's no excuse for your apparent defamatory statements based on your misunderstanding of what's clearly written above?

Dear Arcadian

Your request for an apology is rejected.

May I refer you to my signature at the bottom of this post.

Your gratitude for the advice I gave you vis-a-vis possession proceedings has been noted in post #9 and #10.

I am unable and unwilling to assist you further.

I trust this clarifies matters.

Yours faithfully

Diana M

[Diana M]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

Dear Arcadian

Your request for an apology is rejected.

May I refer you to my signature at the bottom of this post.

Your gratitude for the advice I gave you vis-a-vis possession proceedings has been noted in post #9 and #10.

I am unable and unwilling to assist you further.

I trust this clarifies matters.

Yours faithfully

Diana M

There's an update in relation to the NRAM Together Mortgage unsecured loan 'leftovers' (following the property sale after possession proceedings had been issued) to this thread here >

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...612#post701612

Di

[Arcadian]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

There's an update in relation to the NRAM Together Mortgage unsecured loan 'leftovers' (after the repossession) to this thread here >

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...612#post701612

Di

There was no repossession. The house was sold.

[Diana M]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

There was no repossession. The house was sold.

Re-read my post which was edited to clarify that even though possession proceedings were issued, the sale of your sister's property to a family contact (member?) was completed with enough funds being paid to satisfy the NRAM mortgage (but not the unsecured "Together" loan) at the eleventh hour.

Is that correct?

Di

[Arcadian]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

Re-read my post which was edited to clarify that even though possession proceedings were issued, the sale of your sister's property to a family contact (member?) was completed with enough funds being paid to satisfy the NRAM mortgage (but not the unsecured "Together" loan) at the eleventh hour.

Is that correct?

Di

Thank you for correcting your post, the original post to which I reacted was factually incorrect.

The above is close enough.