Landmark (ex NRAM)

[Diana M]

Re: Landmark issued possession claim, on house already sold!

Unfortunately I have no authority to speak to relative's conveyancer, and they will be at work in the morning so it's difficult to pre-warn

Perhaps because you're not a party to a possible reluctant sale?

Di

[Arcadian]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

I don't really see your point. We are working as a family to help her out of her financial problems, in particular the debts owed to institutions. We are all working with her best interests in mind.

There is not an option for her to keep the house. She doesn't want to keep it, can't pay for it, will never move back there, does not intend to stay in the local area. The sale will complete on Monday, unless Landmark spanner it. There is no conflict of interest. I will make it clear again that it was her choice to put the house on the market more than 2 years ago, in case you didn't read that bit.

I have been proactive in getting or trying to get her independent financial and legal advice to no avail. It's been very difficult to try to get her interested and actively involved in taking control of her own debt issues and spending problems, so I rather resent the implication that I might not have her best interests in mind.

[Arcadian]

Re: Landmark issued possession claim, on house already sold!

Perhaps because you're not a party to a possible reluctant sale?

Di

For your information, I have full authority to speak to the lender, in writing, which was provided by my sister.

I don't have authority to speak to the conveyancer because that WOULD represent a conflict of interest, for reasons which I don't choose to discuss with you.

[Diana M]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

I don't really see your point. We are working as a family to help her out of her financial problems, in particular the debts owed to institutions. We are all working with her best interests in mind.

There is not an option for her to keep the house. She doesn't want to keep it, can't pay for it, will never move back there, does not intend to stay in the local area. The sale will complete on Monday, unless Landmark spanner it. There is no conflict of interest. I will make it clear again that it was her choice to put the house on the market more than 2 years ago, in case you didn't read that bit.

I have been proactive in getting or trying to get her independent financial and legal advice to no avail. It's been very difficult to try to get her interested and actively involved in taking control of her own debt issues and spending problems, so I rather resent the implication that I might not have her best interests in mind.

Please don't misunderstand or resent what I said.

I don't doubt that you may have your sister's interests at heart.

My point is/was that I cannot give advice to a third party where the person (you and/or your parents) seeking the advice by proxy has some financial involvement which would be improved by a sale of the property, so by definition you cannot be impartial.

Hence the reason I suggested your sister should seek independent legal advice.

No offence intended.

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Landmark issued possession claim, on house already sold!

I don't have authority to speak to the conveyancer because that WOULD represent a conflict of interest, for reasons which I don't choose to discuss with you.

Why not?

I'm familiar with conflict of interest issues.

Di

[Arcadian]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

Please don't misunderstand or resent what I said.

I don't doubt that you may have your sister's interests at heart.

My point is/was that I cannot give advice to a third party where the person (you and/or your parents) seeking the advice by proxy has some financial involvement which would be improved by a sale of the property, so by definition you cannot be impartial.

Hence the reason I suggested your sister should seek independent legal advice.

No offence intended.

Di

Thank you for the clarification. However it's all very simple in that whatever happens the house has to be sold, and the money has to be paid back to the pensioners from whom it was borrowed, at some point.

The original plan was to sell for a higher price, clear the institutional debts to give her a fresh start and plenty of time to pay off the familial debts without undue pressure. Unfortunately that sale fell through.

The two options that we were left with when it became clear that the house would soon be repossessed and that no one wanted to pay the previously evaluated price in a hurry, was to either surrender the property and allow her to suffer all the costs of the mortgage company then selling it off, or to sell it ourselves at a lower price to get the mortgage company off her back and to clear the secured debt. Then work from there. To me that seems like an obvious decision.

It has been her terrible life choices which have got her into this situation, and the rest of us have gone through all of the stress, worry and sleepless nights as a result. As well as financial hardship, in some cases. Meanwhile she's been happily cruising along with often not a care in the world, ignoring many of our helpful suggestions and refusing to claim benefits or curb her often excessive and occasionally profligate spending. It's been a very difficult time for us, and I'd very much rather it had not happened this way.

[Diana M]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

it's all very simple in that whatever happens the house has to be sold, and the money has to be paid back to the pensioners from whom it was borrowed, at some point.

The original plan was to sell for a higher price, clear the institutional debts to give her a fresh start and plenty of time to pay off the familial debts without undue pressure

^ ^ that's the reason why I said your sister needs independent legal advice.

According to you the "pensioners" loaned your sister money to buy the property or to sustain the mortgage. Was this a formal loan with interest accruing and a date by which the loan must be repaid? Was this loan put in writing?

Could your sister argue that the money "borrowed" from the "pensioners" was in fact a gift in the absence of any legal document to the contrary?

I'm playing devils advocate here because a court would look at it that way including any future court proceedings commenced for the mortgage shortfall and/or the unsecured Together debt.

You say it's all very simple but that may not necessarily be the case.

You've not posted the full story of your sister's predicament, at least not from her perspective.

Such as why has the property been empty for two years (is that correct?) since the previous sale fell through? Could it not have been let for that period in order to cover the mortgage payments and perhaps prevent possession proceedings?

And so on.

Di

[Arcadian]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

Of course it hasn't been empty for two years, we helped her move out in the summer. As stated.

There is no mortgage shortfall. We're managing to sell it at the secured redemption value, assuming of course that Landmark haven't bunged the court costs onto the top of the existing land charge.

I'm the one on here asking for advice from the point of view of the only person actively trying to sort out this mess - me. If she wants to take the time and effort to seek advice for her own peace of mind then I'm sure she can do so, however I know that won't happen.

If if we do have to get to the point of a DRO or even bankruptcy then I will MAKE SURE that she is told to get independent legal advice, for all the good it might do, because I know (by her own admission) that she is unable to process even basic financial information and advice!

[Arcadian]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

Pleased to be able to report that the conveyancers have told us that the sale has completed today.

We are all very relieved.

Now we just need to start on finding the best way of tackling the unsecured debts that remain. Onwards and upwards...

[Diana M]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

we just need to start on finding the best way of tackling the unsecured debts that remain....

As I asked previously when (what year) was the Northern Rock Together mortgage taken out and how much was the unsecured element?

That will be the starting point for dealing with the Landmark issue.

Di

[Arcadian]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

March 2007, don't have a note of the amount but it's a regulated loan as it was less than 25k

[Arcadian]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

The saga rumbles on. Having "completed" last Monday, the selling conveyancer has since received a new redemption statement that is some £823 more than the last one. They imagine that this is due to the legal costs of the County Court action being added on.

The conveyancer is is concerned that Landshark will not "release the mortgage" until this is paid.

What implications does this have with regards to the property, which is now sold and in the hands of the new owner?

What would be the view of the court, should they still insist on continuing the legal action?

[Debt Camel]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

OK, this is the point to summarise the current situation now the sale has gone through.

Was there a mortgage shortfall? If not, was there any equity left after the mortgage was cleared and the costs of selling the property? If so, how much?

Could I ask you to list all the unsecured debts? Including those to a family member?

And answer Di's question about when the NR Together mortgage was taken out?

Your referred previously to her not claiming all the benefits she is entitled to, has that been sorted out now? is she in a position to be able to make any monthly debt repayments?

[Arcadian]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

OK, this is the point to summarise the current situation now the sale has gone through.

Was there a mortgage shortfall? If not, was there any equity left after the mortgage was cleared and the costs of selling the property? If so, how much?

Could I ask you to list all the unsecured debts? Including those to a family member?

And answer Di's question about when the NR Together mortgage was taken out?

Your referred previously to her not claiming all the benefits she is entitled to, has that been sorted out now? is she in a position to be able to make any monthly debt repayments?

The house was sold for the same amount as the unsecured redemption value that was sent to us by Landmark, which it said was valid until the end of the month (plus monthly charges, which were added in to the calculation) so there was no shortfall.

As above the mortgage/loan was taken out in March 2007.

Remaining debts (approx):
8k to Landmark (remaining unsecured loan element from mortgage)
10k to credit card (CoOp bank)
20k to relatives

Now working, but it's short-term zero-hour contracts so the rate often averages out at a low monthly rate.

Edit: I have answered pretty much all of the requests for information earlier in the the thread. I do realise it's rather long and detailed by now, and has gone off-course in the middle, so I appreciate it's not all easy to find.

[Debt Camel]

Re: Landmark (ex NRAM)

Was the house just in your sister's name or does / did she have a partner?

Assuming just in her name, so she now has 8k arriving in her bank account and 38k of debt.

I suggest asking the DCA that now owns the Co-op credit card debt to produce the CCA agreement for it.

You started off by asking "But I need to know what proportion of any net income after essential expenditure can be allocated to relatives before the rest is offered as an arrangement to the institutions? "

The answer to that is there is no reason why debts to relatives should have any priority over other unsecured debts.

Given her low income it doesn't sound as though there will be any spare income anyway. I would be thinking of using the 8k for settlement offers to her debts.