Acknowledge of Service without a Particulars of Claim - CCMCC

[Ssssssssss]

We have had our preliminary hearing.

Didnt start well given the judge had had his bathroom done by our builders some years ago !! He said that we could carry on today if we wanted to or swap judges, so we carried on. Then he said the case will transfer to another judge after today.

Judge didnt want to hear our issues with the claimants experts independence unfortunately.

He said

1. - I have to write a schedule of issues
2. - The other side has to respond to that schedule of issues
3. - We then have to pick an expert and if we cant pick one, we have to write to the court and the court will pick one of the 6 submitted ( 3x builders side, 3x Our side).

Said that the expert MUST be a surveyor or official body but it absolutely could not be joe bloggs down the street builder. It must be official.

I told him that we had concerns over the independence of the experts that might be submitted on the other side and that many builders we have found know our dodgy builder. The judge said it doesn't matter because the expert cant be joe bloggs builder down the street.

Anyway, we therefore couldn't get our pick of expert or sway the judge to pick from 2 of ours and 1 of the other sides.

Any advice now ? About writing the schedules or about making sure we get our expert ? We know the other side wont agree any of ours and vice versa so it will come down to a judge i am sure.

[Ssssssssss]

Sorry misread the post, thought it said your mum and dad wouldnt be attending, ignore me

So my dad definitely cant go. My mum can and the jist of my letter to court is that, i have, as her daughter, been dealing with the issues since they started and because its proposed as allocated to small claims even though it hasnt received a final allocation, can my daughter speak on my behalf. I've then explained that I work in IT and have been dealing with everything so far with mums authorisation. Does that sound ok ?


In terms of prelimiary hearing. We dont know how to prepare - should we sent a bundle in with the letters regarding the issues that were sent back and forth to the other side ?

And our biggest issues is regarding using experts and the fact that we think the other side are trying to use someone they know although we have no proof.

But mainly, i just dont how to prepare fully.

[pt2537]

Sorry misread the post, thought it said your mum and dad wouldnt be attending, ignore me

[Ssssssssss]

Hi all,

I've just drafted some letters to the court explaining my mum and dads situation about attendence so hopefully that all works out.

I'd still really like some help on what i need to take and prepare for the preliminary hearing if anyone can help with the queries above i posted ?

[Ssssssssss]

Hi all, i have an open query about how to deal with a preliminary hearing in the message above as it does not have any requests for information. Just simply states it is to identify issues, the need for expert evidence and required directions. Any thoughts on this would be great BUT i also have a query regarding representation.

1. My dad and mum are the defendants. My dad cannot attend as he has an operation and this shouldn't make much difference because my mum can attend. i wish to speak on her behalf though.

What i don't understand though is that we have received a proposed notice of allocation to small claims. The preliminary hearing has been scheduled before FINAL notice of allocation. So can i assume that the PROPOSED noticed stands and the preliminary hearing will be dealt with as a small claim ? The reason i ask this is that i know that i have a right to speak on my mums behalf in small claims but i believe its a bit more complicated on the other tracks.

Please let me know - id really appreciate some guidance as i presume i will need to send a letter to the court as soon as possible ?

[Ssssssssss]

It’s just a case of their credibility and why you would doubt it, add in that if they are truly confident of their position they won’t mind 2 of your 3 being used.

It’s only a possibility at the moment, you’ll need to see what the next order of the court is.

The Witness Statement is basically the story from beginning to end, but where you can group writhing together for ease of reading it’s preferable for ease of reading.

There’s a guid and template on this site.

Thanks Jaguarsuk. So we have just received finally an order asking for a preliminary hearing. All it says is to have it so as to "to identify the issues, the need for expert evidence and required directions". It literally says nothing else about anything or what to bring or submit or otherwise.

How can we prepare for that without any further information ? What should we take with us ? Should i prepare a summary list of issues to take and also take all our paperwork with us on the day too ? Should i go ahead and find / list what experts we want ?

Really don't know what to take and prepare as they've not said anything else at all !

[jaguarsuk]

It’s just a case of their credibility and why you would doubt it, add in that if they are truly confident of their position they won’t mind 2 of your 3 being used.

It’s only a possibility at the moment, you’ll need to see what the next order of the court is.

The Witness Statement is basically the story from beginning to end, but where you can group writhing together for ease of reading it’s preferable for ease of reading.

There’s a guid and template on this site.

[Ssssssssss]

Before you go to a hearing of the claim there is likely to be a case management hearing, you'll both be asked to submit the names of 3 experts. You can raise your concern about the independence of his at the hearing and ask the judge to pick 2 of yours with 1 of his.

If you haven't already you need to start compiling a witness statement with your evidence.

In court you will not be addressing the claimant, you will speak to the judge to counter any points and you really need to do your best to remain calm. The judge is looking at your credibility as a witness and if you react or misbehave towards the other side that will be damaged.

Best thing to do when they make statements that are outrageous is to simply say to the judge that it is and why calmly. You can let your frustration out later with a judgement in hand.

Thanks so much Jaguarsuk. Is there a reason i can give for asking the judge to pick two of our experts rather than 2 of his ? Or is this as a consequence of us telling the judge that his are not credible ?

Also, I guess I should get on with the witness statements like you have stated. At least if i start then it wont be a last minute panic. Just wondering, I have a tendency to be very very detailed about things. I'm trying to think about what the best technique is for compiling my witness statement without it becoming a 20 page essay. Should i say things like "various emails were sent over x time period stating xyz and causing delays by slow responses from the other side, refer to Exhibit X. " or should i be listing out the issues instead ?

Not sure how to approach it. Do you have an example statement maybe ? Or some help notes on this forum ?

Thanks again Jaguarsuk. I cant thank you enough for all your help and support.

[jaguarsuk]

Ok so we had mediation. The other side said the same things they have said before and continued to lie. Kept saying we don't have an independent report but he knows the court will authorise one so it's a mute point really isn't it? Tried to imply that our builders quotes are worthless because they aren't independent although they are.

Also said any new builder will say they need to redo the bathroom because they want the money... So implying again the quotes are worthless. But every builder is saying they won't patch up the old builders work so surely if we can't get a quote for a patch up then we can only redo everything as the new builders want.!


We offered a starting position to go from asking for 7000 to 6000. He refused and came back with his offer which was that we pay him 500 instead of the 1800 he is asking for.

I thought this was quite a big jump down for him...

We said no so it's definitely going to hearing now.

So would really like any input on the things mentioned about and also advice on how to get my paperwork in order and prepare for hearing.


I can get very defensive face to face and so am most nervous about how to prepare my statement and approach to questioning the other side.

Also, he wants an expert and so do we. However we are really concerned that he may know the experts he is asking for... They are a proper body but he knows a lot of people in the area and keeps mentioning he wants them which is strange given the obvious poor work... Is there any way we can avoid this in favour of someone else like the tile association?

As always any help is greatly appreciated. I was so hoping it would be over today.

Before you go to a hearing of the claim there is likely to be a case management hearing, you'll both be asked to submit the names of 3 experts. You can raise your concern about the independence of his at the hearing and ask the judge to pick 2 of yours with 1 of his.

If you haven't already you need to start compiling a witness statement with your evidence.

In court you will not be addressing the claimant, you will speak to the judge to counter any points and you really need to do your best to remain calm. The judge is looking at your credibility as a witness and if you react or misbehave towards the other side that will be damaged.

Best thing to do when they make statements that are outrageous is to simply say to the judge that it is and why calmly. You can let your frustration out later with a judgement in hand.

[Ssssssssss]

Ok so we had mediation. The other side said the same things they have said before and continued to lie. Kept saying we don't have an independent report but he knows the court will authorise one so it's a mute point really isn't it? Tried to imply that our builders quotes are worthless because they aren't independent although they are.

Also said any new builder will say they need to redo the bathroom because they want the money... So implying again the quotes are worthless. But every builder is saying they won't patch up the old builders work so surely if we can't get a quote for a patch up then we can only redo everything as the new builders want.!


We offered a starting position to go from asking for 7000 to 6000. He refused and came back with his offer which was that we pay him 500 instead of the 1800 he is asking for.

I thought this was quite a big jump down for him...

We said no so it's definitely going to hearing now.

So would really like any input on the things mentioned about and also advice on how to get my paperwork in order and prepare for hearing.


I can get very defensive face to face and so am most nervous about how to prepare my statement and approach to questioning the other side.

Also, he wants an expert and so do we. However we are really concerned that he may know the experts he is asking for... They are a proper body but he knows a lot of people in the area and keeps mentioning he wants them which is strange given the obvious poor work... Is there any way we can avoid this in favour of someone else like the tile association?

As always any help is greatly appreciated. I was so hoping it would be over today.

[Ssssssssss]

The appointment is conducted with the mediator first calling the claimant and then separately calling you. You will never all be on the line together and in the first call you simply need to explain the issue, that you don't want them back to rectify the work as they have broken your trust in them and are willing to be movable on a settlement figure should they make an offer.

Your approach of flexibility to the settlement is already in the spirit intend in mediation, so you are already approaching things the right way.

Nothing said or disclosed will be given to the court other than a settlement agreement if one is reached. Equally anything discussed cannot be used in Witness Statements or any potential court hearing. This promotes honest open discussion to genuinely achieve settlement.

Good luck, as if you can agree it'll put this to bed for you and if not then you will simply continue to a hearing.

Thanks so much Jaguarsuk, the appointment is tomorrow am and I really do hope an agreement can be reached. Thanks for your message, it's calmed my nerves quite a lot. Will post if anything comes of it or not.

thanks again

sonal

[jaguarsuk]

Thanks so much for responding Jaguarsuk, really appreciate it. I'll make sure that I put those things into the witness statements. Since this post, we have been waiting almost 3 months for the small claims mediation teams to contact us and finally a few weeks ago I rang them to ask what was happening. Apparently they didn't know why they hadn't given us an appointment yet either !

Anyway, we now have a small claims mediation appointment set for next week. If you have any tips on how we should approach this appointment then please do let me know. Are there any things we should or should not say ? We don't want these builders back in our home and thats a definite as they have lied to us and on the court forms but we are willing to be flexible on the amount of compensation.

The appointment is conducted with the mediator first calling the claimant and then separately calling you. You will never all be on the line together and in the first call you simply need to explain the issue, that you don't want them back to rectify the work as they have broken your trust in them and are willing to be movable on a settlement figure should they make an offer.

Your approach of flexibility to the settlement is already in the spirit intend in mediation, so you are already approaching things the right way.

Nothing said or disclosed will be given to the court other than a settlement agreement if one is reached. Equally anything discussed cannot be used in Witness Statements or any potential court hearing. This promotes honest open discussion to genuinely achieve settlement.

Good luck, as if you can agree it'll put this to bed for you and if not then you will simply continue to a hearing.

[Ssssssssss]

1. No need to declare anything to the court about advice or assisting your parents.

2. You can bring this up in the Witness Statement.

3. He will have to produce a copy of this letter as an exhibit with his Witness Statement if he intends to rely upon it as evidence.

4. Submit the original document as an exhibit of your witness statement.

5. If he intends to rely upon the receipt then it'll be as per point 3.

6. That's just him trying to validate his position, again in the witness statement just rebuff this with the reasoning you have given in your question.

Thanks so much for responding Jaguarsuk, really appreciate it. I'll make sure that I put those things into the witness statements. Since this post, we have been waiting almost 3 months for the small claims mediation teams to contact us and finally a few weeks ago I rang them to ask what was happening. Apparently they didn't know why they hadn't given us an appointment yet either !

Anyway, we now have a small claims mediation appointment set for next week. If you have any tips on how we should approach this appointment then please do let me know. Are there any things we should or should not say ? We don't want these builders back in our home and thats a definite as they have lied to us and on the court forms but we are willing to be flexible on the amount of compensation.

[jaguarsuk]

1. No need to declare anything to the court about advice or assisting your parents.

2. You can bring this up in the Witness Statement.

3. He will have to produce a copy of this letter as an exhibit with his Witness Statement if he intends to rely upon it as evidence.

4. Submit the original document as an exhibit of your witness statement.

5. If he intends to rely upon the receipt then it'll be as per point 3.

6. That's just him trying to validate his position, again in the witness statement just rebuff this with the reasoning you have given in your question.

[Ssssssssss]

Hi all,

We have now received a defence to our counterclaim after sending the letter Amethyst suggested we do. I was wondering if anyone could take a look at it at all? I've attached it here along with his original particulars of claim, and our defence.

I had some specific questions also if anyone is willing to look. These are :-

1. Did we have to tell or the court we have taken legal advice ? Also, I'm not actually a lawyer but I did write the documents on my parents behalf. They signed them and were happy with their content. Did i have to declare that i did that ? The documents came from my parents not me and I only wrote them up and did all the research on the legal side of things.

2. He has lied about the tiles and asking us for approvals. Is this something we should tell the court ? Given its meant to be signed as truth ?

3. He has said that there was a letter dated 4th June ( kind of can't figure out if he is referring to the letter we sent him on the 5th June as he has misquoted dates before ). Should we ask him what letter he is referring to or leave it till court time ? Worried he has made up a letter maybe ?

4. He said he put his address on the 13th april document but he didn't. If he produces a different document with an address on it in court, what should we do ? He definitely didn't give us any document with his address on it. The document only had his name and bank details.

5. He has said he got a trade discount. Is it sufficient for us to say that it would show on the receipt if that were the case but he hasn't produced the receipt so we can't see ? Is he right that we have no right to see this information ?

6. Why should the people we contacted such as tile association contact him ? Is this something we should have told them to do ? We were only seeking advice from them. Same with Trading standards, they said they don't contact directly unless there is a criminal breach rather than civil one.

Any help or feedback greatly received.