Acknowledge of Service without a Particulars of Claim - CCMCC

[jaguarsuk]

Therefore

And The Part 20 Claimant Claims

1. £3,865.32 Paid to the Part 20 Defendant for unsatisfactory works.
2. £249.80 materials for Mosaic.
3. £2,769.68 the difference to engage a new contractor to rectify unsatisfactory works.
4. Interest pursuant to Section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984.
5. Part 20 Claimants Court Fees.

[jaguarsuk]

Ahhh - no i think i'm still wrong arent i. It shouldnt matter what was a loss attributable to him v a loss from paying wickes. So actually it should all still calculate as you've said rather than how i've said above right ?

Okay you were right about what to list and maybe this is just a better order, you bought materials that you will have to buy again, so:

1. 3865.32 (what you paid them)
2. 249.80 materials for Mosaic
3. 2769.68 (6884.80 cost to get the bathroom rectified/finished minus 4115.12 that you paid to them combined with materials costs - the difference between what you have paid and what it will cost to put things right)
4. Interest on 6884.80
5. Court Fees

You'll breakdown 1 & 2 in the Witness Statement

[Ssssssssss]

Yes better to go for the bigger number. I get it now. Although i think what was confusing me also was that the mosaic cost was not paid to him, it was paid to Wickes so is a loss. I can see i didn't make that clear in my document as the mosaic bit is ambiguous how i've written it below. It was all meant to be paid by the claimant but he made my mum pay and said he would sort it out later from the tile allowance.

£ 3865.32 – 2 instalments already given of £1932.66 each.
£ 224.82 – Mosaic costs paid by Radiat Shah
£ 24.98 – Additional Mosaic costs paid by Radiat Shah


Should i therefore make a further adjustment using your calcs above as follows


1. 3865.32 (what you paid to claimant)
2. 2769.68 (6635 cost to get the bathroom rectified/finished minus 3865.32 that you paid to them - the difference between what you have paid and what it will cost to put things right)
3. 224.82 + 24.98 loss for purchase of Mosaics
3. Interest on 6884.80
4. Court Fees

Ahhh - no i think i'm still wrong arent i. It shouldnt matter what was a loss attributable to him v a loss from paying wickes. So actually it should all still calculate as you've said rather than how i've said above right ?

[Ssssssssss]

No, forget the amount you withheld as if you win that won't be paid.

Okay, so they have done work that is substandard, rendered the bathroom unusable and needs to be completely redone. Therefore you want your money back plus whatever else it'll cost to get the bathroom done to the correct standard. Your claim is for £6635

So

1. 4115.22 (what you paid them)
2. 2519.78 (6635 cost to get the bathroom rectified/finished minus 4115.22 that you paid to them - the difference between what you have paid and what it will cost to put things right)
3. Interest on 6635
4. Court Fees


If you wanted to claim for just the 4115.22 to keep fees down that is your prerogative as it is your claim, but personally I'd be claiming for the £6635. Horse for course.

Yes better to go for the bigger number. I get it now. Although i think what was confusing me also was that the mosaic cost was not paid to him, it was paid to Wickes so is a loss. I can see i didn't make that clear in my document as the mosaic bit is ambiguous how i've written it below. It was all meant to be paid by the claimant but he made my mum pay and said he would sort it out later from the tile allowance.

£ 3865.32 – 2 instalments already given of £1932.66 each.
£ 224.82 – Mosaic costs paid by Radiat Shah
£ 24.98 – Additional Mosaic costs paid by Radiat Shah


Should i therefore make a further adjustment using your calcs above as follows


1. 3865.32 (what you paid to claimant)
2. 2769.68 (6635 cost to get the bathroom rectified/finished minus 3865.32 that you paid to them - the difference between what you have paid and what it will cost to put things right)
3. 224.82 + 24.98 loss for purchase of Mosaics
3. Interest on 6884.80
4. Court Fees

[jaguarsuk]

Sorry Jaguarsuk, my brain got a bit fried just then. I think i've worked it out.

1. Quote value 6635
2. How much we have already spent 4115.22
3. How much we have retained from the claimant by not paying the final invoice they gave us (even if that final invoice is wrongly written). 1669.97.

So should it be 6635 - 1669.97 as the amount we claim assuming that if he loses, we dont pay the final invoice if you know what i mean ?

No, forget the amount you withheld as if you win that won't be paid.

Okay, so they have done work that is substandard, rendered the bathroom unusable and needs to be completely redone. Therefore you want your money back plus whatever else it'll cost to get the bathroom done to the correct standard. Your claim is for £6635

So

1. 4115.22 (what you paid them)
2. 2519.78 (6635 cost to get the bathroom rectified/finished minus 4115.22 that you paid to them - the difference between what you have paid and what it will cost to put things right)
3. Interest on 6635
4. Court Fees


If you wanted to claim for just the 4115.22 to keep fees down that is your prerogative as it is your claim, but personally I'd be claiming for the £6635. Horse for course.

[Ssssssssss]

Sorry Jaguarsuk, my brain got a bit fried just then. I think i've worked it out.

1. Quote value 6635
2. How much we have already spent 4115.22
3. How much we have retained from the claimant by not paying the final invoice they gave us (even if that final invoice is wrongly written). 1669.97.

So should it be 6635 - 1669.97 as the amount we claim assuming that if he loses, we dont pay the final invoice if you know what i mean ?

So total 4965.03 plus court costs and interest.

[Ssssssssss]

That's why I am saying you want the money you have paid back and the difference to the quote - a total of £6635, plus interest and fees.

They have left you with an unfinished and unusable bathroom, so you can claim the cost of it being returned to use. You can't claim the money back and the cost of the work, the money back has to form a portion of the work to be carried out. The works don't have to have been carried out, that's the point of the quotes.

Sorry Jaguarsuk, my brain got a bit fried just then. I think i've worked it out.

1. Quote value 6635
2. How much we have already spent 4115.22
3. How much we have retained from the claimant by not paying the final invoice they gave us (even if that final invoice is wrongly written). 1669.97.

So should it be 6635 - 1669.97 as the amount we claim assuming that if he loses, we dont pay the final invoice if you know what i mean ?

[Ssssssssss]

Sorry i think i'm confusing myself.

So IF they won. They would get £1667 from us.
IF we won, we obviously wouldnt have to pay them the £1667 anymore so we've effectively retained it So we should then claim 6635 minus the 1667 we retained ???

[Ssssssssss]

oh but then if we have withheld the last payment on his quote, do i have to take that into account too ?

Sorry i think i'm confusing myself.

[Ssssssssss]

OK - and then we pay the increased court fees as it goes over the £5000 mark. I was hoping to keep it under £5000 to avoid the extra fees but i think its going to have to go over now based on what you have said.

oh but then if we have withheld the last payment on his quote, do i have to take that into account too ?

[Ssssssssss]

That's why I am saying you want the money you have paid back and the difference to the quote - a total of £6635, plus interest and fees.

They have left you with an unfinished and unusable bathroom, so you can claim the cost of it being returned to use. You can't claim the money back and the cost of the work, the money back has to form a portion of the work to be carried out. The works don't have to have been carried out, that's the point of the quotes.

OK - and then we pay the increased court fees as it goes over the £5000 mark. I was hoping to keep it under £5000 to avoid the extra fees but i think its going to have to go over now based on what you have said.

[Ssssssssss]

deleted

[jaguarsuk]

OK - I understand now between WS and defence. That is probably the bit i was most confused about before so thats clarified it.

Ahhhh I didnt know we were allowed to claim for more than what we had already paid. It is difficult because the rectification work hasnt actually been done yet and the quotes are basically for a full re-fit because none of the builders were happy to do partial fixes as it would have meant them accepting liability for the claimants work. So i really wasn't sure how to do it at all.

That's why I am saying you want the money you have paid back and the difference to the quote - a total of £6635, plus interest and fees.

They have left you with an unfinished and unusable bathroom, so you can claim the cost of it being returned to use. You can't claim the money back and the cost of the work, the money back has to form a portion of the work to be carried out. The works don't have to have been carried out, that's the point of the quotes.

[Ssssssssss]

Yes, all you need to say is that there were issues, you told them and they had opportunity to rectify them. In your WS you will say exactly what the issues were/are and can provide a copy of the list sent to the Claimant if you have one as an exhibit.

You wouldn't be breaking down costs as surely your counter claim is for the cost of the work stated in the quotes?

Therefore your claim should be

And The Part 20 Claimant Claims

1. £X Paid to the Part 20 Defendant for unsatisfactory works
2. £X (the difference between what's paid and the quote) for the difference engaging contractor to rectify unsatisfactory works and complete outstanding works.
3. Interest pursuant to Section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984
4. Part 20 Claimants Court Fees

OK - I understand now between WS and defence. That is probably the bit i was most confused about before so thats clarified it.

Ahhhh I didnt know we were allowed to claim for more than what we had already paid. It is difficult because the rectification work hasnt actually been done yet and the quotes are basically for a full re-fit because none of the builders were happy to do partial fixes as it would have meant them accepting liability for the claimants work. So i really wasn't sure how to do it at all.

[jaguarsuk]

Thats great.

I'm just in the middle of making the amendments and nearly done them all. Can i assume that when you said remove paragraph 31 which was the list of what the issues were, its for the same reason as the removal of paragraph 33. i.e. its evidence rather than fact and should come later with the witness statements ? Also it shouldn't be in the counter claim section for again the same reason ?

Yes, all you need to say is that there were issues, you told them and they had opportunity to rectify them. In your WS you will say exactly what the issues were/are and can provide a copy of the list sent to the Claimant if you have one as an exhibit.

You wouldn't be breaking down costs as surely your counter claim is for the cost of the work stated in the quotes?

Therefore your claim should be

And The Part 20 Claimant Claims

1. £X Paid to the Part 20 Defendant for unsatisfactory works
2. £X (the difference between what's paid and the quote) for the difference engaging contractor to rectify unsatisfactory works and complete outstanding works.
3. Interest pursuant to Section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984
4. Part 20 Claimants Court Fees