Acknowledge of Service without a Particulars of Claim - CCMCC

[jaguarsuk]

Deleted

[jaguarsuk]

A General Point, don't capitalise as it serves no purpose other than to make it awful to read. Just because the Claimant did it, doesn't make it right and you don't want the judge to read it as you shouting at them.

Para 4 remove "/ appears" as the PoC state it is.

Para 8, you should have sent a part 31.14 request to the Claimant.

Para 12 Chane to: "It is admitted that the defendants due to reducing mobility asked the claimant to fit a new bathroom at their home, xxxxxaddressxxxxx."

Para 13 change to: "The claimant attempts to assert their competence due to experience and qualifications in the statement of case, but despite numerous requests has not provided Electrical Part P registration or Trade Association information to substantiate them."

Para 17, not made "scheduled"

Para 19 text message

Remove Para 31

Para 32 change to "The claimants conducted an inspection on 25^th June 2018 and the defendant received an email dated 26^th June and letter dated 1^st July from the claimants outlining their response, which was not satisfactory.

Remove Para 34

Para 36, remove "The 3^rd payment was due on completion."

Para 37 split into two paras as you are admitting and denying two things.

Para 52.1 change to "The part 20 claimants have not been able to use their shower, have and continue to rely upon use of a neighbours shower."

Para 52.2 change to "The part 20 claimants have paid the part 20 defendants for work of insufficient standard and in order that the bathroom be returned to a usable state are required to engage a new contractor at a sum of £6635."

Using the middle of the quotes shows you want a quality job done, but aren't trying to rip of the other side and just want the best quality job at the best price.

Regarding Para 20, in future when you make changes to an agreement they should be made in writing to the written agreement not verbally. Just a bit of advice going forward.

[Ssssssssss]

A General Point, don't capitalise as it serves no purpose other than to make it awful to read. Just because the Claimant did it, doesn't make it right and you don't want the judge to read it as you shouting at them.

Para 4 remove "/ appears" as the PoC state it is.

Para 8, you should have sent a part 31.14 request to the Claimant.

Para 12 Chane to: "It is admitted that the defendants due to reducing mobility asked the claimant to fit a new bathroom at their home, xxxxxaddressxxxxx."

Para 13 change to: "The claimant attempts to assert their competence due to experience and qualifications in the statement of case, but despite numerous requests has not provided Electrical Part P registration or Trade Association information to substantiate them."

Para 17, not made "scheduled"

Para 19 text message

Remove Para 31

Para 32 change to "The claimants conducted an inspection on 25^th June 2018 and the defendant received an email dated 26^th June and letter dated 1^st July from the claimants outlining their response, which was not satisfactory.

Remove Para 34

Para 36, remove "The 3^rd payment was due on completion."

Para 37 split into two paras as you are admitting and denying two things.

Para 52.1 change to "The part 20 claimants have not been able to use their shower, have and continue to rely upon use of a neighbours shower."

Para 52.2 change to "The part 20 claimants have paid the part 20 defendants for work of insufficient standard and in order that the bathroom be returned to a usable state are required to engage a new contractor at a sum of £6635."

Using the middle of the quotes shows you want a quality job done, but aren't trying to rip of the other side and just want the best quality job at the best price.

Regarding Para 20, in future when you make changes to an agreement they should be made in writing to the written agreement not verbally. Just a bit of advice going forward.

Oh thank you so much Jaguarsuk. I really don't know how to thank you for the time you've put in to review and everything else.
I'll go right ahead and make those changes now.

Just one i didn't quite understand, the amendment to paragraph 32....does that mean rolling it up with paragraph 33 but still keeping the detail of paragraph 33 ?

Also, I just have one other question. Is it just way too long. I've read in so many online articles about judges getting annoyed with long replies or POC's and defences. I really don't want to fall into that trap and i'm terrible when it comes to knowing if i've put too much detail in or too little.

I really can't thank you enough and definitely point taken regarding verbal changes. We should have known better but my mum trusted these guys and I went with it which i shouldn't have done

[jaguarsuk]

Oh thank you so much Jaguarsuk. I really don't know how to thank you for the time you've put in to review and everything else.
I'll go right ahead and make those changes now.

Just one i didn't quite understand, the amendment to paragraph 32....does that mean rolling it up with paragraph 33 but still keeping the detail of paragraph 33 ?

Also, I just have one other question. Is it just way too long. I've read in so many online articles about judges getting annoyed with long replies or POC's and defences. I really don't want to fall into that trap and i'm terrible when it comes to knowing if i've put too much detail in or too little.

I really can't thank you enough and definitely point taken regarding verbal changes. We should have known better but my mum trusted these guys and I went with it which i shouldn't have done

No Para 33 is detail that should go in a Witness Statement if/when a hearing date is set.

It's long, but because it needs to be to fully explain your position. The things I have said above are because they were not necessary or overly verbose.

[Ssssssssss]

No Para 33 is detail that should go in a Witness Statement if/when a hearing date is set.

It's long, but because it needs to be to fully explain your position. The things I have said above are because they were not necessary or overly verbose.

Thats great.

I'm just in the middle of making the amendments and nearly done them all. Can i assume that when you said remove paragraph 31 which was the list of what the issues were, its for the same reason as the removal of paragraph 33. i.e. its evidence rather than fact and should come later with the witness statements ? Also it shouldn't be in the counter claim section for again the same reason ?

[jaguarsuk]

Thats great.

I'm just in the middle of making the amendments and nearly done them all. Can i assume that when you said remove paragraph 31 which was the list of what the issues were, its for the same reason as the removal of paragraph 33. i.e. its evidence rather than fact and should come later with the witness statements ? Also it shouldn't be in the counter claim section for again the same reason ?

Yes, all you need to say is that there were issues, you told them and they had opportunity to rectify them. In your WS you will say exactly what the issues were/are and can provide a copy of the list sent to the Claimant if you have one as an exhibit.

You wouldn't be breaking down costs as surely your counter claim is for the cost of the work stated in the quotes?

Therefore your claim should be

And The Part 20 Claimant Claims

1. £X Paid to the Part 20 Defendant for unsatisfactory works
2. £X (the difference between what's paid and the quote) for the difference engaging contractor to rectify unsatisfactory works and complete outstanding works.
3. Interest pursuant to Section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984
4. Part 20 Claimants Court Fees

[Ssssssssss]

Yes, all you need to say is that there were issues, you told them and they had opportunity to rectify them. In your WS you will say exactly what the issues were/are and can provide a copy of the list sent to the Claimant if you have one as an exhibit.

You wouldn't be breaking down costs as surely your counter claim is for the cost of the work stated in the quotes?

Therefore your claim should be

And The Part 20 Claimant Claims

1. £X Paid to the Part 20 Defendant for unsatisfactory works
2. £X (the difference between what's paid and the quote) for the difference engaging contractor to rectify unsatisfactory works and complete outstanding works.
3. Interest pursuant to Section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984
4. Part 20 Claimants Court Fees

OK - I understand now between WS and defence. That is probably the bit i was most confused about before so thats clarified it.

Ahhhh I didnt know we were allowed to claim for more than what we had already paid. It is difficult because the rectification work hasnt actually been done yet and the quotes are basically for a full re-fit because none of the builders were happy to do partial fixes as it would have meant them accepting liability for the claimants work. So i really wasn't sure how to do it at all.

[jaguarsuk]

OK - I understand now between WS and defence. That is probably the bit i was most confused about before so thats clarified it.

Ahhhh I didnt know we were allowed to claim for more than what we had already paid. It is difficult because the rectification work hasnt actually been done yet and the quotes are basically for a full re-fit because none of the builders were happy to do partial fixes as it would have meant them accepting liability for the claimants work. So i really wasn't sure how to do it at all.

That's why I am saying you want the money you have paid back and the difference to the quote - a total of £6635, plus interest and fees.

They have left you with an unfinished and unusable bathroom, so you can claim the cost of it being returned to use. You can't claim the money back and the cost of the work, the money back has to form a portion of the work to be carried out. The works don't have to have been carried out, that's the point of the quotes.

[Ssssssssss]

deleted

[Ssssssssss]

That's why I am saying you want the money you have paid back and the difference to the quote - a total of £6635, plus interest and fees.

They have left you with an unfinished and unusable bathroom, so you can claim the cost of it being returned to use. You can't claim the money back and the cost of the work, the money back has to form a portion of the work to be carried out. The works don't have to have been carried out, that's the point of the quotes.

OK - and then we pay the increased court fees as it goes over the £5000 mark. I was hoping to keep it under £5000 to avoid the extra fees but i think its going to have to go over now based on what you have said.

[Ssssssssss]

OK - and then we pay the increased court fees as it goes over the £5000 mark. I was hoping to keep it under £5000 to avoid the extra fees but i think its going to have to go over now based on what you have said.

oh but then if we have withheld the last payment on his quote, do i have to take that into account too ?

[Ssssssssss]

oh but then if we have withheld the last payment on his quote, do i have to take that into account too ?

Sorry i think i'm confusing myself.

[Ssssssssss]

Sorry i think i'm confusing myself.

So IF they won. They would get £1667 from us.
IF we won, we obviously wouldnt have to pay them the £1667 anymore so we've effectively retained it So we should then claim 6635 minus the 1667 we retained ???

[Ssssssssss]

That's why I am saying you want the money you have paid back and the difference to the quote - a total of £6635, plus interest and fees.

They have left you with an unfinished and unusable bathroom, so you can claim the cost of it being returned to use. You can't claim the money back and the cost of the work, the money back has to form a portion of the work to be carried out. The works don't have to have been carried out, that's the point of the quotes.

Sorry Jaguarsuk, my brain got a bit fried just then. I think i've worked it out.

1. Quote value 6635
2. How much we have already spent 4115.22
3. How much we have retained from the claimant by not paying the final invoice they gave us (even if that final invoice is wrongly written). 1669.97.

So should it be 6635 - 1669.97 as the amount we claim assuming that if he loses, we dont pay the final invoice if you know what i mean ?

[Ssssssssss]

Sorry Jaguarsuk, my brain got a bit fried just then. I think i've worked it out.

1. Quote value 6635
2. How much we have already spent 4115.22
3. How much we have retained from the claimant by not paying the final invoice they gave us (even if that final invoice is wrongly written). 1669.97.

So should it be 6635 - 1669.97 as the amount we claim assuming that if he loses, we dont pay the final invoice if you know what i mean ?

So total 4965.03 plus court costs and interest.