Acknowledge of Service without a Particulars of Claim - CCMCC

[Ssssssssss]

No Para 33 is detail that should go in a Witness Statement if/when a hearing date is set.

It's long, but because it needs to be to fully explain your position. The things I have said above are because they were not necessary or overly verbose.

Thats great.

I'm just in the middle of making the amendments and nearly done them all. Can i assume that when you said remove paragraph 31 which was the list of what the issues were, its for the same reason as the removal of paragraph 33. i.e. its evidence rather than fact and should come later with the witness statements ? Also it shouldn't be in the counter claim section for again the same reason ?

[jaguarsuk]

Oh thank you so much Jaguarsuk. I really don't know how to thank you for the time you've put in to review and everything else.
I'll go right ahead and make those changes now.

Just one i didn't quite understand, the amendment to paragraph 32....does that mean rolling it up with paragraph 33 but still keeping the detail of paragraph 33 ?

Also, I just have one other question. Is it just way too long. I've read in so many online articles about judges getting annoyed with long replies or POC's and defences. I really don't want to fall into that trap and i'm terrible when it comes to knowing if i've put too much detail in or too little.

I really can't thank you enough and definitely point taken regarding verbal changes. We should have known better but my mum trusted these guys and I went with it which i shouldn't have done

No Para 33 is detail that should go in a Witness Statement if/when a hearing date is set.

It's long, but because it needs to be to fully explain your position. The things I have said above are because they were not necessary or overly verbose.

[Ssssssssss]

A General Point, don't capitalise as it serves no purpose other than to make it awful to read. Just because the Claimant did it, doesn't make it right and you don't want the judge to read it as you shouting at them.

Para 4 remove "/ appears" as the PoC state it is.

Para 8, you should have sent a part 31.14 request to the Claimant.

Para 12 Chane to: "It is admitted that the defendants due to reducing mobility asked the claimant to fit a new bathroom at their home, xxxxxaddressxxxxx."

Para 13 change to: "The claimant attempts to assert their competence due to experience and qualifications in the statement of case, but despite numerous requests has not provided Electrical Part P registration or Trade Association information to substantiate them."

Para 17, not made "scheduled"

Para 19 text message

Remove Para 31

Para 32 change to "The claimants conducted an inspection on 25^th June 2018 and the defendant received an email dated 26^th June and letter dated 1^st July from the claimants outlining their response, which was not satisfactory.

Remove Para 34

Para 36, remove "The 3^rd payment was due on completion."

Para 37 split into two paras as you are admitting and denying two things.

Para 52.1 change to "The part 20 claimants have not been able to use their shower, have and continue to rely upon use of a neighbours shower."

Para 52.2 change to "The part 20 claimants have paid the part 20 defendants for work of insufficient standard and in order that the bathroom be returned to a usable state are required to engage a new contractor at a sum of £6635."

Using the middle of the quotes shows you want a quality job done, but aren't trying to rip of the other side and just want the best quality job at the best price.

Regarding Para 20, in future when you make changes to an agreement they should be made in writing to the written agreement not verbally. Just a bit of advice going forward.

Oh thank you so much Jaguarsuk. I really don't know how to thank you for the time you've put in to review and everything else.
I'll go right ahead and make those changes now.

Just one i didn't quite understand, the amendment to paragraph 32....does that mean rolling it up with paragraph 33 but still keeping the detail of paragraph 33 ?

Also, I just have one other question. Is it just way too long. I've read in so many online articles about judges getting annoyed with long replies or POC's and defences. I really don't want to fall into that trap and i'm terrible when it comes to knowing if i've put too much detail in or too little.

I really can't thank you enough and definitely point taken regarding verbal changes. We should have known better but my mum trusted these guys and I went with it which i shouldn't have done

[jaguarsuk]

A General Point, don't capitalise as it serves no purpose other than to make it awful to read. Just because the Claimant did it, doesn't make it right and you don't want the judge to read it as you shouting at them.

Para 4 remove "/ appears" as the PoC state it is.

Para 8, you should have sent a part 31.14 request to the Claimant.

Para 12 Chane to: "It is admitted that the defendants due to reducing mobility asked the claimant to fit a new bathroom at their home, xxxxxaddressxxxxx."

Para 13 change to: "The claimant attempts to assert their competence due to experience and qualifications in the statement of case, but despite numerous requests has not provided Electrical Part P registration or Trade Association information to substantiate them."

Para 17, not made "scheduled"

Para 19 text message

Remove Para 31

Para 32 change to "The claimants conducted an inspection on 25^th June 2018 and the defendant received an email dated 26^th June and letter dated 1^st July from the claimants outlining their response, which was not satisfactory.

Remove Para 34

Para 36, remove "The 3^rd payment was due on completion."

Para 37 split into two paras as you are admitting and denying two things.

Para 52.1 change to "The part 20 claimants have not been able to use their shower, have and continue to rely upon use of a neighbours shower."

Para 52.2 change to "The part 20 claimants have paid the part 20 defendants for work of insufficient standard and in order that the bathroom be returned to a usable state are required to engage a new contractor at a sum of £6635."

Using the middle of the quotes shows you want a quality job done, but aren't trying to rip of the other side and just want the best quality job at the best price.

Regarding Para 20, in future when you make changes to an agreement they should be made in writing to the written agreement not verbally. Just a bit of advice going forward.

[jaguarsuk]

Deleted

[Ssssssssss]

OK so i;ve sanitised these documents. Any feedback greatly received. I've added PDF versions and Word versions ( I used libra office so I hope they will open ok in Microsoft office ).

I know my defence and counterclaim is likely too long but i'm desperately struggling to know what to leave in, take out or summarise. Also need advice on format and structure.

I've read as much background as possible but this is my first time writing anything like this.

Thanks in advance !!!!!

[Ssssssssss]

Just a quick question in the meantime that might help me refine or remove detail tonight before i upload. So I've written this as part of my Defence. I'm wondering, do i really need to outline the visits to wickes - Is that evidence to disclose later or is it correct to put it in the defence now ?

1. The amount listed on the final invoice is INCORRECT and DENIED. The final invoice calculates as:-

Full amount – 2 instalments paid – tile allowance of £25 per sqm for 21sqm + actual price of tiles.
£5798 – (1932.66 * 2) – (25*21) + actual price of tiles paid for by claimants.

1. The final invoice makes an adjustment for actual tile costs, however, without the consent, knowledge or acceptance of the defendants, the claimant has supplied different tiles to those contractually agreed.
2. On 2^ndJune, the claimant declined to provide a tile receipt which is required to validate the invoice. On 3^rdJune, the defendants investigated with staff at Wickes and confirmed the tiles did not match those asked for and indeed, match a cheaper tile. Despite this, the claimant has continued to try to charge the defendants for the more expensive tiles and continued to refuse to provide a valid Wickes receipt.

OR should i change it to something a lot simpler like

1. The final invoice makes an adjustment for actual tile costs, however, without the consent, knowledge or acceptance of the defendants, the claimant supplied different cheaper tile to that contractually agreed. He has however continued to charge for the more expensive tile. On 2^ndJune and subsequently, the claimant has declined to provide a valid tile receipt to validate the invoice. To be clear, the defendants do not accept the alternative tiles provided.

[Ssssssssss]

I can on Monday as I don't come on her in the evenings or weekends or someone else may help you before then,

Either way you'll need to type out or post a pic of the Particulars of Claim with identifying info removed and a copy of your defence and counter claim.

Thanks JaguarUK. I'll upload everything tomorrow.

[jaguarsuk]

I've just completed a first draft of my defence and counterclaim.

I think I've probably put evidence in rather than basic facts but is anyone willing to read through and give me some tips at all ? I'm struggling now as unfortunately tend to have difficulty summarising things succinctly.

Would really appreciate any pointers. Will post if i'm allowed on the forum ?

I can on Monday as I don't come on her in the evenings or weekends or someone else may help you before then,

Either way you'll need to type out or post a pic of the Particulars of Claim with identifying info removed and a copy of your defence and counter claim.

[Ssssssssss]

I've just completed a first draft of my defence and counterclaim.

I think I've probably put evidence in rather than basic facts but is anyone willing to read through and give me some tips at all ? I'm struggling now as unfortunately tend to have difficulty summarising things succinctly.

Would really appreciate any pointers. Will post if i'm allowed on the forum ?

[Ssssssssss]

He is the Claimant in his claim and becomes the Part 20 Defendant in the Counter Claim.

In the header of your Defence list him as Claimant, but when you come to address the Counter Claim make sure you set out whom the parties are with him being the Part 20 Defendant.

Thanks Jaguarsuk. I'll do that !

[jaguarsuk]

We have finally received a particulars of claim from the claimant albeit not containing any more information than he put in the brief outline of the claim. Anyway, we are currently writing our defence and counter claim and just had a quick question. Should i refer to him as claimant throughout or should i refer to him as claimant in the defence part and then when i get down to the counterclaim, change it over and refer to him as the Part 20 defendant ?

The header states him as "claimant/part 20 defendant".

What is the correct protocol ?

He is the Claimant in his claim and becomes the Part 20 Defendant in the Counter Claim.

In the header of your Defence list him as Claimant, but when you come to address the Counter Claim make sure you set out whom the parties are with him being the Part 20 Defendant.

[Ssssssssss]

We have finally received a particulars of claim from the claimant albeit not containing any more information than he put in the brief outline of the claim. Anyway, we are currently writing our defence and counter claim and just had a quick question. Should i refer to him as claimant throughout or should i refer to him as claimant in the defence part and then when i get down to the counterclaim, change it over and refer to him as the Part 20 defendant ?

The header states him as "claimant/part 20 defendant".

What is the correct protocol ?

[Ssssssssss]

Rightly or wrongly, we have written to the claimant and given him 7 days to file a particulars or tell the court he isn't going to. The Money Claims Centre seems to be a bit pot luck in terms of advice given but I guess after 7 days if claimant files or doesn't, the court will have to look at it and decide whether to carry on or not anyway. Any advice ? Should we just write to the court anyway and tell them we've sent a letter to the claimant or should we just leave it for a week now and see what happens ?

[Ssssssssss]

Hi All,

So in our case, we still don't have any particulars of claim from the claimant and nothing has been filed with the CCMCC either. At least nothing seems to have been filed.

The matter is still stayed. If the claimant had said that the particulars were to follow he would have had till 18th September to file them which is obviously past now. (he failed to say whether they were to follow though).

Just need some advice now.

Should we write to claimant and ask him to file them or we will get the matter struck out.
OR should we just tell the court they need to give directions as we havent received anything.

We still want to do our counterclaim which would probably be best done as a counterclaim rather than a brand new claim.

Let me know what you think

Sonal (thanks in advance)