Super Tax @ 69%

[wales01man]

Re: Super Tax @ 69%

What would be fair? its never gonna be fair to everyone i would think that most people on minimum wage would want 50k a year and those on 40 k want 100k we have developed into a society where we all want something more but for most it wont happen can anyone come up with a formula for tax and benefits that keeps us all content well NO

[TUTTSI]

Re: Super Tax @ 69%

This thread is not about our earning power it is about the fairness of income taxes ect. How people earn their money is if they have studied to become a specialist in their field or whether you work in a factory or on the shop floor. People in the south pay more for homes than those in the provinces so our earning power in the south has to match this. Nothing is fair in life, you have to make the salary as best you can, but taxes could be scaled better and I believe the loss of child benefit with one wage earner once you go over the threshold to be ridiculous. I think if I was in that situation I might hust ope to stay under the radar at £50,099 and still collect the child benefit if their is only one wage earner but you have to way up whats best for the family overall.

My son left the UK to go to China, he is doing better out there he pays minimum taxes, has an apartment with his job and cost of living is incredibly cheap like electricity, gas etc.... He does not earn a fortune but out their the money goes far and he lives like a king and he is well respected.

What would be fair? its never gonna be fair to everyone i would think that most people on minimum wage would want 50k a year and those on 40 k want 100k we have developed into a society where we all want something more but for most it wont happen can anyone come up with a formula for tax and benefits that keeps us all content well NO

[Magrew]

Re: Super Tax @ 69%

I hate always repeating myself but the issue is not how much money we have, it is how much of what we have is being contributed.

Over the £10k band between £50k and £60k people are effectively contributing 69% of their income over £50k to the government's great cause.

Now that is not a small difference, it is not the 5% extra that the government considered was too much for the earners on more than £150k, it is a phenomenal 24% more.

It is effectively the highest tax rate in the whole of Europe (until France bring in their 75% band).

I am really amazed that no journalists have picked up on this point in their attempts to illustrate the degree of disparity this causes.

I have not considered all the supplementary taxes because I am purely looking at the comparitive contribution from earnings to ensure we are comparing apples with apples.

[Magrew]

Re: Super Tax @ 69%

This thread is not about our earning power it is about the fairness of income taxes ect.

Tuttsi, our posts crossed but yes, you have totally got it.

[wales01man]

Re: Super Tax @ 69%

My post started off (what would be fair?)
We all know the tax system is not perfect stands to reason it wont change because any change would be unfair to someone. What i was saying is how we have all become do the 50k earners want the 12k earners to pay more or can we think them and everone wants CB abolished thus making it fairer?

[TUTTSI]

Re: Super Tax @ 69%

I am simply saying I bet if you added up all the suplementary taxes as well that we all pay on every day stuff I bet it would soar so extremely high - we are taxed at source then taxed again.... and that is for everyone no matter on what they earn and what tax bracket they already pay taxes on.

[wales01man]

Re: Super Tax @ 69%

TUTTSI
Thats the system but whats the alternative?

[TUTTSI]

Re: Super Tax @ 69%

There is no alternative as I see it as it stands now. But as Magrew has pointed this is an unfair system for people earning £50,100 plus and I believe the lower paid workers are taxed to high so start a campain firstly write to your MP setting out these points, then speak to the media, get a campain going for a fairer tax system and we could be doing this on Legal Beagles.

TUTTSI
Thats the system but whats the alternative?

[MissFM]

Re: Super Tax @ 69%

Magrew - inappropriate good-natured joshing aside - you are of course right and it is deeply unfair!:yield:Another example of the law of unintended consequences, usually an equal and opposite reaction etc.. x

[Magrew]

Re: Super Tax @ 69%

TUTTSI
Thats the system but whats the alternative?

Get big business to pay its fair share would go a very long way to plugging the hole.

In fact if they were treated in the same way as PAYE earners (ie it is x% on gross profit and there is no debate about it) then that would make a world of a difference.

I know that clever accountants will find ways using smoke and mirrors to show that somehow big companies make no gross profit. What I would do to counter that is have something close to a death sentence for any sharp practice to make them think twice before they behave in an unethical manner. This would include removing any licence to practice if caught.

The reason we pay so much is because the government needs a high revenue stream to allow it to operate, I agree with the streamlining of this beast but only in the right areas. I would be supporting frontline services and getting rid of all those bloody crazy auditors, target setters and measurers, strategist, and PR wasters. We also need an awful lot less managers and more doers but doers must be able to progress to get a living wage.

It is also time that we did whatever it takes to actually produce stuff, and get it sold locally with as much exported wherever possible. People think that they are benefitting by being able to buy cheap stuff from China but what we are actually doing is allowing any wealth we have to fly out of our economy into someone else's. It is a perfect example of a self destructive process.

I am not in anyway a nationalist but I can see the real worth of buying locally, get everything you can from as local a source as possible and you can be sure that your consumption will offer the best benefit to your own economy. Don't ever support a globalised company, it will never do you any good because I assure you that they are not socially ethical and every single one of them is taking more from the country's net worth than they will ever put back in. They are parasitic.

And we need to teach our kids a proper work ethic, I am always amazed at the attitude I see from young people wanting it all but expecting to get it for nothing. We have raised a generation of spoilt brats. This is the most pathetic thing I see. We need to let them know the joy of working so hard you get calouses, I did it and I loved it, my happiest working days were working as a labourer on a building site. I know that job opportunites at the monent are limited but the kids are also too fussy.

[labman]

Re: Super Tax @ 69%

I was out of this interesting thread yesterday unfortunately. I would still be very interested to see the level of lost income (I know it is not a direct tax, but it is most definitely an indirect tax) to those workers that fall into the poverty trap I mentioned earlier in the thread. I bet their indirect taxation level would not be far short of what you describe, it may even be higher, and that is imposed on our lowest earners.

It is very unfair to BOTH the sector you are arguing for and the sector I'm wanting to add to it as well. The situation is only exacerbated by the high earners paying less tax, and being able to afford accountants who minimise their tax risk. I know several exceedingly wealthy people who pay next to nothing on parts of their vast incomes - certainly less than I do, because while they do it legally, they do it totally immorally.

I am with you here Magrew, along with the approach to companies' tax liabilities.

I have some issue with the buying from China bit, not because I disagree with you, but because those on a low income simply cannot afford to do anything but buy the cheapest they can to survive.

As for the totally separate issue of hitting children, I think most rational people would differentiate between a little slap for a child to bring them back into line, and a real beating or hitting. Personally I have no issue with children being disciplined in this way, but I would never condone 'real' hitting of children. We all had to learn, some of us were natually good, others of us took a little more persuasion. That's life.

[TUTTSI]

Re: Super Tax @ 69%

Labs, people who use accountants do so because they normally run a business either Ltd, PLC or self employed. You can only claim what is allowable to reduce your tax but have other restraints like paying more NIC etc than employed people do and you have to pay upfront tax for the following year on account in July before most people have had their accounts done. So not all rosy and of course you have accountancy fees to pay in addition.

Other people who are employed and have other business interest also use accountants to be able to correctly deal with their tax issues.

The people who are getting away with murder - lets remind ourselves - those who have not paid Corporation tax in the UK.... STARBUCKS, GOOGLE AND AMAZON lost revenue of millions - so who are the targets for the Revenue, the easy pickings like higher tax earners taking away their child benefits.

I remember when I became 18 (just a few years ago) my train ticket went up, GPC started, NIC contributions went up and my take home pay was less than when I was 17 lol. I get now on my pension get such a measley amount of Graduated Pensions I think something like £4 extra for all the years I paid out of my earned income.

I was out of this interesting thread yesterday unfortunately. I would still be very interested to see the level of lost income (I know it is not a direct tax, but it is most definitely an indirect tax) to those workers that fall into the poverty trap I mentioned earlier in the thread. I bet their indirect taxation level would not be far short of what you describe, it may even be higher, and that is imposed on our lowest earners.

It is very unfair to BOTH the sector you are arguing for and the sector I'm wanting to add to it as well. The situation is only exacerbated by the high earners paying less tax, and being able to afford accountants who minimise their tax risk. I know several exceedingly wealthy people who pay next to nothing on parts of their vast incomes - certainly less than I do, because while they do it legally, they do it totally immorally.

I am with you here Magrew, along with the approach to companies' tax liabilities.

I have some issue with the buying from China bit, not because I disagree with you, but because those on a low income simply cannot afford to do anything but buy the cheapest they can to survive.

As for the totally separate issue of hitting children, I think most rational people would differentiate between a little slap for a child to bring them back into line, and a real beating or hitting. Personally I have no issue with children being disciplined in this way, but I would never condone 'real' hitting of children. We all had to learn, some of us were natually good, others of us took a little more persuasion. That's life.

[Inca]

Re: Super Tax @ 69%

My son worked in a chip shop at 15,,did work experience at an outdoor pursuits place,went to college and Uni,became a Sports Teacher........gave it all up to re train as a chef,and has never been out of work.He knew from a young age his choices were work or leave home,I wasn't having a slob under my roof.He still lives here (with his g/f) while they save for their own place,they contribute towards everything.If we are having a take away,they pay half.I've instilled the work ethic in him as my Mum did with us.My brother is a Lawyer,One sister is a Nurse in a hospice,other sister is a Psychotherapist and I was a chef in a former life.

[labman]

Re: Super Tax @ 69%

Tutts,

I agree with what you say. Equally, I find it hard that a few GP's are able to legitimately claim allowances for things which mean the amount of tax paid is reduced significantly, legally but not, IMO, morally correctly. At the other end of the spectrum, people like many Ministers of Religion are able to significalntly reduce their tax bills in some decidedly 'questionable' legal ways.

I know you are best qualified to comment of anyone on this thread, but I still see people getting away with murder IMO.

[Magrew]

Re: Super Tax @ 69%

As for the totally separate issue of hitting children,

Sorry did I admit to battering children somewhere? I try to always keep that quiet.


As in buying from China (figuratively speaking) I fully appreciate what you say, and it is recognised that it is impossible for many to avoid the issue immediately but the way to drive down the cost of local produce is to make the country productive again.

I grew up in a family on the breadline but my parents insisted on supporting local producers. They were aware that this is the most sustainable way to allow the local economy to thrive. If everyone could do it it would transform the economy.