Gambing win and benefits

[stunner1901]

Good evening all

A close friend has just won a nice bit on the football £6k

He currently receives UC and gets council tax relief and is a carer for his mom

Question is if he withdraws his winnings does he have to declare it to DWP and council or is it ignored as only a one off win

If he was to withdraw it and then withdraw straight from the bank would that cause any issues? maybe to buy car or do his house up for example

TIA

[dslippy]

Yes, it affects those benefits and must be declared. In the unlikey event that it need not, then no damage will have been done.

Spending it quickly is no escape.

[stunner1901]

dslippy thanks for reply

so if he were to buy some items that he has had to go without due to no money that would be held against him?

is tv is 20yrs old, he needs clothes etc surely he is allowed to send some of it?

do the dwp take into consideration the £000s he has lost over past 3 years?

thanks again

[dslippy]

You need soebody with access to latest benefits conditions.
He can have a ccertain amount of cash anyway. This sounds to be below those levels,
Wait for someone better informed.

[des8]

The savings/capital limit before UC is affected is £6,000.
For capital between £6,000 & £16,000 , for each £250 0r part of the DWP assume you obtain about £4 a month income (not sure of the exact amount).

He can spend the money on essentials without being accused of intentional deprivation, but what is essential is open to argument.

Re council tax support, I believe the amount of capital allowed varies between councils


He might obtain more targeted advice from a website such as turn2us.org.uk

[Wylderose]

Good evening Stunner.

I really don't see any reason why he would not want to declare his winnings. No - the DWP don't take into account what he has lost over the years.

Whether your friend has had a windfall or not the fact is that he/she claims benefits. Benefits are means tested, so first he needs to declare his/her windfall because yes, it can affect his benefits.

He has every right to spend his money as he wishes "after he declares" that he has it. If he does not declare the money he has come by then when it comes to light, he could face

1. Loss of benefits when DWP find out and this could lead to a freeze on his benefits while DWP wait for him to provide his Accounts and then wait for a decision maker to look at them. That could be more than a couple of weeks
2. He could be investigated for benefit fraud for failure to declare a change of circumstances

On the other hand if he has declared it as he is supposed to do, then he is free to spend it as he wishes.

If he holds capital of between £6000 and £16000 he will be assessed as having £1 tariff income per £250 pounds of capital he holds. Over £16000 he is not entitled to benefits.

I hope this helps you to make up his mind for him

[stunner1901]

Good evening Stunner.

I really don't see any reason why he would not want to declare his winnings. No - the DWP don't take into account what he has lost over the years.

Whether your friend has had a windfall or not the fact is that he/she claims benefits. Benefits are means tested, so first he needs to declare his/her windfall because yes, it can affect his benefits.

He has every right to spend his money as he wishes "after he declares" that he has it. If he does not declare the money he has come by then when it comes to light, he could face

1. Loss of benefits when DWP find out and this could lead to a freeze on his benefits while DWP wait for him to provide his Accounts and then wait for a decision maker to look at them. That could be more than a couple of weeks
2. He could be investigated for benefit fraud for failure to declare a change of circumstances

On the other hand if he has declared it as he is supposed to do, then he is free to spend it as he wishes.

If he holds capital of between £6000 and £16000 he will be assessed as having £1 tariff income per £250 pounds of capital he holds. Over £16000 he is not entitled to benefits.

I hope this helps you to make up his mind for him

Hi

He declared his winnings but is living life worse than he did on uc as he is literally scared to spend anything

The fear is they told him that when he drops below the 16k a decision maker will go through all his spending and decide if he has deliberately deprived himself of capital to get uc again

is he allowed to continue to gamble as that is one of his only little pleasures in life?

how much can he give his family at xmas bearing in mind he hasn't been able to give them anything for years whilst on uc?

are there actual guidelines or is it purely down to the mood of the decision maker on the day?

thanks again

[Wylderose]

Hi Stunner, sorry I would have been back sooner, but life took over...

For someone who has been used to living on benefits to suddenly have those removed, life can be very frightening, especially when they are faced with paying their own bills. So, I can understand him being scared to spend his money.

Gambling - if he gambles regularly, odds are he is addicted. If he is going to gamble, then he will.

Deprivation of capital. The deprivation regulations are laid down in law. Deprivation is disposal of assets/capital in order to gain benefits

Examples of what is and what is not deprivation.
1. Buying a new television - not deprivation because there is no reason why you would not replace an old item
2. Buying yourself nice clothes, jewellery, car, replacing household items - not deprivation
3. Buying yourself a Funeral Plan - not deprivation

In fact buying a funeral plan is a legitimate capital expense that is specifically allowed under both the Housing Benefit and the Universal Credit regulations because you are taking a long view and preparing for an inevitable eventuality.

4. Buying a gift for someone for Birthday/Christmas - not deprivation as this is normal behaviour
5. Paying off your debts - not deprivation
6. Paying your bills - not deprivation

Giving someone money (gifting) - DEPRIVATION of capital

You asked specifically, how much he can give his family at Xmas - the answer is Nothing. He cannot give his money away. It does not matter whether he has not been able to give them anything for years or not. He cannot do it because if and when his capital drops below £16000, if he has given money away, he will be deemed to still possess the money he gave away and it will prevent him from reclaiming.

If he has over £16000, he would be better off doing what most people do, getting a job, paying his bills and getting on with life. He will gain so much more from the sense of self-respect he would feel, than he would living on UC. He can't spend his time worrying about what he spends or waiting until he can claim benefits again. That is not good for anyone.

[atticus]

^^^
Absolutely.

[jaguarsuk]

If he has over £16000, he would be better off doing what most people do, getting a job, paying his bills and getting on with life. He will gain so much more from the sense of self-respect he would feel, than he would living on UC. He can't spend his time worrying about what he spends or waiting until he can claim benefits again. That is not good for anyone.

We shouldn't assume the OP's friend doesn't want to get a job, wants to rely on benefits and/or hasn't tried to get a job.

Some of us are lucky enough to live in places where jobs are plentiful, but I had to move hundreds of miles to gain employment. The town I lived in had over 5,000 applicants for 200 jobs when a supermarket opened a new store in it. In some parts of the country people are doomed to a life of Universal Credit not choosing it.

The OP says the friend won £6,000 in post #1 and as £16,000 seems to be the capital threshold from the previous posts on this thread it would seem that the OP's friend will be fine.

Having informed the DWP and Council the OP's friend is doing the right thing in not spending now, but once they receive communication from those authorities that their benefits (UC and Housing) aren't going to change then they will be able to relax and enjoy spending their winnings.

[Wylderose]

Hi Jaguar. I entirely agree with you.

My experience of working with benefits claimants for many years is that once someone has been on benefits for a long time, facing a world where they have to pay their own way is very daunting, which is why I suggested that working would be beneficial for his self-esteem. It takes a big step like that to rebuild your own belief in yourself. I know that myself from life experience of being in a similar position. I had to retrain 3 times to obtain work and thankfully it has paid off.

I know that the OP initially said £6000 in post #1, but in post #7 indicates that the winnings are in excess of £16000 because he/she appears to be stating that the friend is no longer on UC and that he will have to face a Deprivation of capital decision when his capital drops below £16000 and he reclaims.

It is difficult giving any kind of generalised advice to someone when you are conveying this through an intermediary. If I had this man sat in front of me in a benefits interview situation, it would be so much easier to explain the deprivation rules and give advice

He declared his winnings but is living life worse than he did on uc as he is literally scared to spend anything

The fear is they told him that when he drops below the 16k a decision maker will go through all his spending and decide if he has deliberately deprived himself of capital to get uc again

is he allowed to continue to gamble as that is one of his only little pleasures in life?

how much can he give his family at xmas bearing in mind he hasn't been able to give them anything for years whilst on uc?

are there actual guidelines or is it purely down to the mood of the decision maker on the day?

thanks again