Will we all get our money back now

[Angry Cat]

Re: Will we all get our money back now

It is how they MAY respond and every case is different.

The point is that the unreported county case is simply that and not a landmark high court ruling!

[labman]

Re: Will we all get our money back now

I think technically you're correct AC, but one would have to be a bit of a wazzock to ignore this judgment in my opinion.

[MBD23]

Re: Will we all get our money back now

has this discussion really got anything to if/when/how the banks will write to customers before they have complained?
northern rock have been doing for a while, but I believe close the matter if they havent had a response within 4 weeks

Can I ask, I heard on the BBC report, by sending out the letters, they introduce a 3 year time bar to claim ? sounds like the endowment red letters, is this correct, perhaps the real reason why the banks are doing this, capping their liability to whatever claims can be submitted within the next 3 years or whenever they get their letters out?

Also does anybody know how the banks have based their bad debt provision and how accurate this is likely to be . I mean how can they estimate a bad provision what % will claim over how many years for what amount etc? Seems to me like can the provision of £7-9billion depending upon what you read have any credence to being accurate at all?

this websites gone very quiet on ppi
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
FSA publishes guidance consultation to help firms provide redress to victims of PPI mis-selling






FSA/PN/021/2012
06 Mar 2012
The Financial Services Authority (FSA) today published proposed guidance for firms that sold payment protection insurance (PPI) and are beginning to contact customers who may have been mis-sold a policy but have yet to complain.
The guidance outlines steps firms should take when writing to these customers. It stresses the importance of these communications explaining clearly why the customer may have been mis-sold and could be entitled to redress, what the customer should do to respond to the firm, the time limits involved and the need to act promptly.
The letters are part of a process being undertaken by PPI firms to establish what caused the large number of complaints; this is called ‘root cause analysis’. When an FSA authorised firm identifies recurring or systemic problems in its sales processes it is required to correct them. The firm should consider what action it may need to take to treat fairly affected customers that have not complained – including contacting them and giving them the opportunity to claim redress.
The proposed guidance sets out the FSA’s expectations that the letters should be clear, fair and not misleading, and include a clear explanation of the following:

• that the letter contains important information and should be read carefully;
• that the customer may have been mis-sold;
• the specific failings that led the firm to believe the customer may have been mis-sold;
• that the customer may have suffered a financial loss and could be entitled to redress; and
• that the letter requires careful and immediate consideration and there is a time limit for making a complaint.

The FSA is also asking firms to ensure these letters are free from financial jargon or marketing material. The guidance consultation stresses the importance of keeping records of any response from the customer and the subsequent actions taken by the firm.
‘Time barring’

As well as providing guidance on the content of the customer contact letters, the FSA is also clarifying when and how firms might decide that a complaint is ‘time barred’.
Normally, customers have six years from a sale to complain or, if later, three years from when they became aware (or ought to have become aware) that they had cause for complaint. When a complaint is made outside this limit, the firm is no longer obliged to consider it and can reject it; the Financial Ombudsman Service may also dismiss a complaint made outside these time limits.
With firms beginning to send letters to customers, the FSA is acting now to ensure these letters are easy to understand, contain clear notice of a potential mis-sale, and the time limits involved.
Martin Wheatley, FSA managing director, commented:
“This is important guidance and marks a key moment in the story of PPI. So far the majority of payouts have been for complaints received before, or put on hold during, the judicial review. However, we are now beginning to see firms considering how to treat customers who were mis-sold but have not complained.
“We think that the redress due from this process may well exceed what has been paid so far, and that is why we are acting now to clarify our expectations. By ensuring that firms are clear about the problems they have identified and the potential redress due, we are aiming to prevent people running out of time if they choose to complain.
“Historically, response rates for these types of exercises are low - sometimes as low as one in ten. Therefore, if you receive a letter, it’s important to consider your PPI purchase carefully and if you feel you have been a victim of poor practice - please do respond to the firm.
"The British Bankers' Association and Association of Finance Brokers have both indicated their strong support for the guidance, and - along with consumer group, Which? - have also been in discussions with the FSA to try and reach agreement on how best firms can communicate with affected customers, both in the context of these contact exercises and PPI more generally. These are encouraging moves."
Notes for editors

1. Read the FSA’s guidance consultation on PPI customer contact letters.
2. Further information on PPI sales, complaints and redress paid:
   • Redress paid in 2011 - £1.9 billion (source: FSA monthly statistics on PPI redress)
   • Estimated total number of policies sold since 2005 (not including regular premium PPI on first charge mortgages) - 16.1m (source: FSA Consultation Paper 10/6)
   • Estimated total value of PPI policies sold since 2005 - approximately £17bn (not including regular premium PPI on first charge mortgages) (source: FSA Consultation Paper 10/6)
   • Estimated total value of PPI policies sold 2001-2004 – £16.9bn (source: Competition Commission, ‘Market investigation into payment protection insurance’, January 2009)
   
   
3. The FSA regulates the financial services industry and has four objectives under the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000: maintaining market confidence; securing the appropriate degree of protection for consumers; fighting financial crime; and contributing to the protection and enhancement of the stability of the UK financial system.

looks like a move to introduce 3 year time barring

[Angry Cat]

Re: Will we all get our money back now

IMHO, the 3 years start to run from the date one receives the contact letter(s).

That is of course, if the suggested letters are actually mailed out?

[winner12]

Re: Will we all get our money back now

Exactly Angrey Cat can the banks be trusted to send out letters I think not thats why its better to put your own claim in
And from a earlier post some insurance had to be taken if the loan application was to be accepted in the first place not that the conversation could be proved just another set of hoops to jump through Im afraid

[Angry Cat]

Re: Will we all get our money back now

And from a earlier post some insurance had to be taken if the loan application was to be accepted in the first place not that the conversation could be proved just another set of hoops to jump through Im afraid

Yes, many who took out loans in the late 90's/early 2000's had to take out the PPI/PPC or, their loan application would be turned down...
Of course, the Banks would now deny this!

This happened with mortgages and then CC's/Loans.

My OH has just found a Lloyds one that had been forgotten about. Fortunately, the statements have been retained.

[winner12]

Re: Will we all get our money back now

Good luck with that one angry cat I know I have not saved my statement but I did get PPI back from Barclays I had no idea I was paying a monthly premium it was not on any statements but when I was going through my DMP set up it came to light on a breakdown of payments they kindly sent me claimed it all back plus interest

[EXC]

Re: Will we all get our money back now

Can I ask, I heard on the BBC report, by sending out the letters, they introduce a 3 year time bar to claim ? sounds like the endowment red letters, is this correct, perhaps the real reason why the banks are doing this, capping their liability to whatever claims can be submitted within the next 3 years or whenever they get their letters out?

I think this is really what the consultation is all about - to clarify the 3 year issue in respect of the CCLs.

As things stand the FSA's complaints time limits are either 6 years from the cause of complaint or (if later) 3 years from the date on which the complainant became aware (or ought reasonably to have become aware) that they had cause for complaint. The issue is if the CCL in itself is enough to constitute an awareness of fact when the CCL is only capable of suggesting their may have been a problem and not definitively stating there is.

Reading between the lines of the consultation paper the banks want the 3 year clock to start ticking when the letters land on the door mat and the FSA don't. So I think the FSA are formally consulting on it to defend themselves against any potential Judicial Review challenge.

[MBD23]

Re: Will we all get our money back now

I think this is really what the consultation is all about - to clarify the 3 year issue in respect of the CCLs.

As things stand the FSA's complaints time limits are either 6 years from the cause of complaint or (if later) 3 years from the date on which the complainant became aware (or ought reasonably to have become aware) that they had cause for complaint. The issue is if the CCL in itself is enough to constitute an awareness of fact when the CCL is only capable of suggesting their may have been a problem and not definitively stating there is.

Reading between the lines of the consultation paper the banks want the 3 year clock to start ticking when the letters land on the door mat and the FSA don't. So I think the FSA are formally consulting on it to defend themselves against any potential Judicial Review challenge.

is there a timelimit on the consultation, i suppose all parties will have realised the slower they are to reach a decision the slower the letters are to go out the slower the 3 year deadline starts
this is all showing me the banks see this as a 3year+ problem and way in excess of the 8bn they have provisioned for, as at 500mil a month and 2bn in this problem would be gone in a year and no need for letters, so why write to people? because they know this is going to hit their balance sheets every year for the next 6 years far in excess of the provisions they have allocated?

[EXC]

Re: Will we all get our money back now

is there a timelimit on the consultation, i suppose all parties will have realised the slower they are to reach a decision the slower the letters are to go out the slower the 3 year deadline starts
this is all showing me the banks see this as a 3year+ problem and way in excess of the 8bn they have provisioned for, as at 500mil a month and 2bn in this problem would be gone in a year and no need for letters, so why write to people? because they know this is going to hit their balance sheets every year for the next 6 years far in excess of the provisions they have allocated?

The consultation closes on 3 April. The FSA estimates that the CCL exercise will result in up to £3.2b in compensation. The take-up of consumer contact exercises is historically quite low with about only 1 in 10 people responding so I think that the £3b it'll cost the banks is about right.

[MBD23]

Re: Will we all get our money back now

The consultation closes on 3 April. The FSA estimates that the CCL exercise will result in up to £3.2b in compensation. The take-up of consumer contact exercises is historically quite low with about only 1 in 10 people responding so I think that the £3b it'll cost the banks is about right.

that suggests potential 30bn liability

[EXC]

Re: Will we all get our money back now

that suggests potential 30bn liability

That would be assuming a 100% uphold rate of complaints and I don't think it will be anywhere near that but it will be interesting to know what the liability turns out to be.

[labman]

Re: Will we all get our money back now

I would have thought the uptake rate will be small. History dictates this to be the case, and as a nation we are not good at claiming what is rightfully ours.

[MBD23]

Re: Will we all get our money back now

I heard a different view that the 3 year time limit is only if it is later than the 6 year timeframe, thereby actually creating a longer window in which a client can make a claim.

Our rules concerning complaint time limits provide that a firm may reject a complaint without consideration of its merits (and object to FOS considering such a complaint), if:
· the complaint was made to the firm more than six years after the event complained of (eg a PPI sale); or
· (if later), more than three years from the date on which the complainant became aware (or ought reasonably to have become aware) that they had cause for complaint.


so potentially 3 years after the 6 years it looks like

[labman]

Re: Will we all get our money back now

Potentially more than that, but you'd need very good proof I would imagine. How can you or they prove 'you ought reasonably to have become aware?'