Allay Acting Without Authority

[EXC]

Hi, thanks for your helpful response.

Neither of the addresses listed were current at the date of the LOA, that's one of the many baffling issues. What they've used as the current address is donkies years old, so not even a case of a cross over due to a house move or whatever. I saw from the banks DSAR response that this address issue was picked up by the bank. The bank wrote to say that the address used on the application did not match the address they held on their files, and that until I contacted them to provide the correct details they would not be able to proceed. But they sent that letter to the old address, hence I never received it (despite me banking with them for decades and them communicating on all other matters to my correct address). I can't understand how the process was then able to proceed beyond this without my response. There's also the signature issue, which bears no resemblance to my actual signature that the bank have had on file for years.

How would you suggest I take things forward with the bank? I've done the DSAR bit, should I now submit a complaint?

Yes absolutely complain to the bank about the signature and the address issue.

PS. What are your thoughts on the integrity of the 'terms of engagement' document I shared? As far as I can see they could have attached anything, there's no date, no signature, no unique reference etc. And I noticed the wording at point 2 differs from another set of terms I saw on here for roughly the same period in time (June 2019). Just not sure what they think that document is supposed to prove?

That is the whole 'durable medium' issue. Distance selling regulations state that the trader must provide the buyer with a copy of the contract in an durable medium (an unalterable form) at or around the point the contract was struck. Legally it is for the trader to prove he did so - see attched. This is one of the grounds that Allay lost on in the court case. It's notable that in their response to you Allay didn't say that they ever supplied you with the contract.

I've seen Allay literature that says you must sign & post back the contract. Even on the LOA they sent you it says ''Read, sign & return'' rather that ''Read, sign & submit''.

Really peeved this is all taking up so much time to try and resolve.

Yep this is going to be a long haul. The Claims Management Ombudsman is currently quoting 4 months before they even start looking at complaints. It's up to you of course how much effort you want to put in to this. How much are Allay asking for?

[BELUGA01]

Thanks all.

EXC letter of complaint now drafted to the bank, will post tomorrow and await their response.

Thanks for the info on distance selling regs, interesting. Yes, I also note that Allay haven't mentioned anything about having ever supplied a contract. Will send the suggested holding email to them next week whilst waiting to see if the DSAR materialises. They've invoiced for upwards of £1,500, though I'd be equally as furious even if they were only asking for a tenner! It's the principle. Quite happy to see them in court if that's what it takes.

Will update when there's news.

[BELUGA01]

Still nothing so far from Allay in response to DSAR request, deadline is next week... they've sent a few text messages chasing payment, and actually called earlier this week. On answering the phone they asked me to confirm my name, DOB and address, I said I wasn't prepared to give them any of my personal information to which they said they wouldn't be able to continue the call. I said that was absolutely fine by me and so that was the end of that!

Have posted letter of complaint to the bank, awaiting response.

[EXC]

Ok well done and keep us posted.

Allay have form not responding to DSAR requests so open a complaint with the Information Commissioner's Office if they don't.

Not sure if you've seen this? Allay apply to have their authorisation cancelled - LegalBeagles Forum

[BELUGA01]

Still nothing so far from Allay in response to DSAR request, deadline is next week... they've sent a few text messages chasing payment, and actually called earlier this week. On answering the phone they asked me to confirm my name, DOB and address, I said I wasn't prepared to give them any of my personal information to which they said they wouldn't be able to continue the call. I said that was absolutely fine by me and so that was the end of that!

Have posted letter of complaint to the bank, awaiting response.

Hi Nick,

Thanks. Yes, saw the post about Allay applying to have their authorisation cancelled. Does it mean I should act quickly to get a complaint to the Ombudsman, or?

I received an email back from the Allay complaints team on Monday following my holding email back to them, in which I responded to some of the points they raised and pointed out again that they are in breach of consumer contract regs, plus CMCOB guidelines, and the IP address issue etc. I'll forward their full response to you via email, would be really grateful if you might have a moment to take a look and let me know your thoughts and how best to proceed next?

They say I should contact Action Fraud if the IP address they've given doesn't match mine. And that the incorrect postal address they used is basically not their concern. They say they will continue chasing payment until they receive a complaint from the Ombudsman. The other key points contained in their response for others interested are:

"When opting into our services, you were redirected to a web page which thanked you for providing your signature, and you were given the option of saving a copy of this contract as a pdf file for your own records."

"Allay have acted in line with guidelines issued by our regulator and your lender have accepted this contract as valid permission to act on your behalf. As outlined in the FCA Handbook, an electronic signature is acceptable and a wet signature was not required to progress this matter:

COBS 4.12.14

1. (1)
any requirement that a document is signed may be satisfied by an electronic signature or electronic evidence of assent;"

[EXC]

Ok I'll take a look and get back to you by tomorrow with my thoughts.

Mind you couldn't help noticing this:

"Allay have acted in line with guidelines issued by our regulator and your lender have accepted this contract as valid permission to act on your behalf. As outlined in the FCA Handbook, an electronic signature is acceptable and a wet signature was not required to progress this matter:

COBS 4.12.14

1. (1)
any requirement that a document is signed may be satisfied by an electronic signature or electronic evidence of assent;"

Nice try but no cigar. They're quoting COBS and not CMCOBS lol.

COBS only applies to investment and life insurance businesses.

[EXC]

Before we consider your response to Allay, I think it would be a good idea if, with your consent, I sent the FCA their email to show them that Allay blatently lying about COBS.

It can't do your position any harm and in your response to Allay as you can say that you've reported it. What do you think?

[BELUGA01]

Before we consider your response to Allay, I think it would be a good idea if, with your consent, I sent the FCA their email to show them that Allay blatently lying about COBS.

It can't do your position any harm and in your response to Allay as you can say that you've reported it. What do you think?

Hi, yes that sounds totally fine Nick, thanks. Can hardly believe they've said that! Look forward to hearing from you on what we should do next. Cheers

[EXC]

Ok done.

I've fowarded it to you for ref. The email chain includes some previous correspondence with them but it's not unrelated.

I suggest we wait for FCA's confirmation that COBS doesn't apply, then we can include that in your response to Allay and suggest they reconsider your complaint.

[BELUGA01]

Thanks a lot Nick. It is a huge help having your valuable input.

[BELUGA01]

DSAR now received from Allay, though nothing new in it, except for something titled an Experian e-consumer check they've carried out, I assume to try and find my address? I also note they haven't included a copy of a letter that the complaints dept sent me in response to my first email complaint, where they wrote asking me to fill in a questionnaire to strengthen a potential claim (which I of course never did, they were writing to the wrong address!). Wonder if they've left that out on purpose...

They haven't sent anything detailing any paperwork they submitted to the bank. And the DSAR from the bank didn't reveal anything of that nature either. And at no point have they said they issued a contract, just that it was available to save via the web page when opting in.

So basically all there is is the LOA with a forged e-signature (and an incorrect address), and a set of terms that could have been plucked from anywhere. Madness.

Don't suppose you've heard anything back from the FCA yet Nick?

[EXC]

DSAR now received from Allay, though nothing new in it, except for something titled an Experian e-consumer check they've carried out, I assume to try and find my address? I also note they haven't included a copy of a letter that the complaints dept sent me in response to my first email complaint, where they wrote asking me to fill in a questionnaire to strengthen a potential claim (which I of course never did, they were writing to the wrong address!). Wonder if they've left that out on purpose...

They haven't sent anything detailing any paperwork they submitted to the bank. And the DSAR from the bank didn't reveal anything of that nature either. And at no point have they said they issued a contract, just that it was available to save via the web page when opting in.

So basically all there is is the LOA with a forged e-signature (and an incorrect address), and a set of terms that could have been plucked from anywhere. Madness.

Ok thanks for the info. The Experian e-consumer check looks like it was to find your address Experian e-consumerview Product Menu

I think it's a legitimate question to ask for sight of the actual claim Allay sent the bank on your behalf, although that's not really at issue as it's the lack of your informerd consent that's the main thing.

Don't suppose you've heard anything back from the FCA yet Nick?

No they usually take a couple of weeks to respond to emails. As I said to them once, they're a bit like the Vatican in that they don't measure time in days and weeks but years and decades lol. I'll chase them in a few days if we need to but we've got plenty of time in order to file your complaint with the Ombudsman.

[BELUGA01]

Thanks Nick. Will await news from you on what the FCA have to say.

[BELUGA01]

Hi Nick, in terms of getting a copy of the actual claim Allay sent to the bank, is it a case of following up on the DSAR to request the missing info? I'm curious to see what they've got (if anything) in regards to this, and whether they've used a forged signature. Seems really weird that they've not supplied anything and neither did the bank...

Was just browsing back through other Allay threads and saw the one by 'Millershome' where Allay cancelled the invoice admitting that a questionnaire had never been submitted and that the lender had auto converted a ppi search into a complaint. Wondering if something similar could explain how my claim progressed without my input?!

[EXC]

Yes back in the run up to the PPI claiming deadline of August 2019, banks were auto-converting enquiries on whether PPI existed on an account into complaints/claims

From 30 June 2019, most firms who found a PPI policy in response to a PPI checking enquiry automatically treated this as a PPI complaint.

After you complain about PPI | FCA

Although it's legitimate to ask to see the claim, there could well not be one. In their email to you of 1st February they're a bit ambiguous about it:

Once we received your application, your details were sent to the lenders to conduct a Data Subject Access Request to determine if PPI was sold to you. We received notification from HBOS to confirm that you were sold PPI and therefore, you had valid claims. In line with our contract with you, this was then submitted as an official complaint and you were notified of the submission via automated email issued to the email address provided on your opt in on 05/11/19

So it might be worth asking them to clarify what 'this' is.