new: H&T buyback query

[Peter83]

Hi all

am new here so not sure of the right way to frame the question but help appreciated.

I had a phone+sim contract with vodafone that i stopped paying now. last momth I had some urgent money probs so took a £200 buy-back 30-day loan from H&T on the phone while it is still in contract. Am still short on money so I couldn't go collect the buyback after 30 days H&t have now sent a thrtening letter saying we have found phone does not belong to you and we'll be taking polic action etc unless you pay the prnciple loan amount back. no mention of giving me back the phone if i paid them the principl back.

not sure hy they are thretning me cos i told thme its on contrct and they have the right to sell it if i dont buyback.

what shud i be doing?

[charitynjw]

not sure hy they are thretning me cos i told thme its on contrct and they have the right to sell it if i dont buyback.

Hi
Didn't they specifically ask if the item was yours to sell?
(Ie, that you had a legal right to sell it.)

[Peter83]

Hi, i dont recall that statement specificlly but i clearly remember discusing that it was currently in cntract with vodafone.
isnt the whole point of buyback loans that customer may or may not buy it back?

[charitynjw]

Hi, i dont recall that statement specificlly but i clearly remember discusing that it was currently in cntract with vodafone.
isnt the whole point of buyback loans that customer may or may not buy it back?

Their online form
https://www.handt.co.uk/buyback

(See following post)

[des8]

That is 1355.19% APR compounded !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[charitynjw]

Their T&Cs
https://www.handt.co.uk/contact/tcs#warning

I've only skim-read, but can't see anything about actual ownership checks.

[Peter83]

Hi charitynjw

I'm attaching the letter they sent, and the very short 3 sections of the contract. I guess pt 7 is to note on pg2, under obligations.

Pt 11 is a bit blurred so typing it below:
11. you authorise h&t to disclose to the poilce ot anyother relevant law enfrcement or regulatory authority or network service provder, all information that h&t may have relating to you or the items, notwithsanding that such disclosure may be used in an investigation and/or prosecution in relation to you and/or the items. such investigation or prosecution could have severe consequences for you, as it may lead to you receiving a criminal conviction and/or record.

any advice is welcome. thanks

[charitynjw]

When did you first see those letters/T&Cs?
Were they brought to your notice clearly?

[Peter83]

I read these t&c for the first time yesterday. at the store, it was the standard 45 second discussion of here's your contract and youre done. defn nothing about threat of action and what not..

[des8]

Still have the problem that if the phone was still under contract it was probably not yours to sell.
What does your Vodafone contract state?

[Peter83]

Still have the problem that if the phone was still under contract it was probably not yours to sell.
What does your Vodafone contract state?

Voda contract does not say anything as far as i can tell on this point.

h&t knew fully well that they were taking a contract phone- this was talked about, and i have mysef done it earlier on same buyback terms but never left it.

are they just accting tough bcos they cant sell it on at a good price this time? whats my best course of action.

thanks !

[charitynjw]

Are you wanting to buy it back?

[Peter83]

Are you wanting to buy it back?

their letter says "pay £200" and no mention of giving my phone back.

if i do have to talkk with them and pay £200 then I would want the phone back. first decision is to talk or email or ignore.. and 2nd decision is how much to pay to get the phone back... any sugestions please?

[des8]

If they "bought" the phone from you for £200 and they are wanting their £200 back without asking for their extra 12.5% I would snap their hand off.

You weren't in a position to sell the phone as it wasn't yours.
Although they might seem to you to be threatening, IMO they are being reasonable.
If they were to refuse to return the item after you give them their money back they could possibly be in a difficult position.

If you can't raise the money in one lump sum, go and talk to them and try and come to an arrangement.

[charitynjw]

If they "bought" the phone from you for £200 and they are wanting their £200 back without asking for their extra 12.5% I would snap their hand off.

You weren't in a position to sell the phone as it wasn't yours.
Although they might seem to you to be threatening, IMO they are being reasonable.
If they were to refuse to return the item after you give them their money back they could possibly be in a difficult position.

If you can't raise the money in one lump sum, go and talk to them and try and come to an arrangement.

The legal position may not be as clear-cut as one would imagine.

https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2013/186.html

Vehicle Control Services Ltd v HM Revenue & Customs [2013] EWCA Civ 186 (13 March 2013)

At 22 - (Lord Justice Lewison)

The flaw in the reasoning is that it confuses the making of a contract with the power to perform it. There is no legal impediment to my contracting to sell you Buckingham Palace. If (inevitably) I fail to honour my contract then I can be sued for damages. On the stock market it is commonplace for traders to sell short; in other words to sell shares that they do not own in the hope of buying them later at a lower price. In order to perform the contract the trader will have to acquire the required number of shares after the contract of sale is made. Moreover, in some cases a contracting party may not only be able to contract to confer rights over property that he does not own, but may also be able to perform the contract without acquiring any such right. Thus in Bruton v London and Quadrant Housing Trust [2000] 1 AC 406 a housing trust with no interest in land was held to have validly granted a tenancy of the land to a residential occupier. The tenancy would not have been binding on the landowner, but bound the two contracting parties in precisely the same way as it would have done if the grantor had had an interest in the land.

I guess a lot depends on the agreement with the phone co, but even then.........?