Tuttsi V Halifax ( 18 year claim )

[TANZARELLI]

Re: Tuttsi V Halifax ( 18 year claim )

If your re-sending a prelim then its just charges total. However as Budgie points out if they dont settle then you add in a line to say you reserve the right to amend your claim to include CI if a settlement is not forthcoming.

[Budgie]

Re: Tuttsi V Halifax ( 18 year claim )

There seems to be some confusion.

Sorry, just to make it 100% clear.

I am actually suggesting that Tuttsi handles this a bit differently to a conventional claim. See earlier posts in thread.

If she were just starting a conventional claim she might normally raise a preliminary letter ( just for charges only ) then an LBA and then file at court ( adding statutory court interest at that stage ). Or if she was claiming compound interest then she would include details about that part of her claim in the preliminary letter.

However, this isn't going to be a conventional claim, well not initially anyway. This will be a request to Halifax to pay Tuttsi's claim, as described in her letter, owing to her severe financial hardship.

There is nothing to stop Tuttsi building an interest element other than compound interest into her initial letter. As long as she can justify it she can claim whatever she wishes, actually anyone who is starting a new claim can actually do this and there are various ways of justifying it.

Tuttsi won't refer to it in her letter as "statutory court interest".
It just so happens that it will be calculated the same way as statutory court interest !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't worry everything can be sorted out in the wording of the preliminary letter and I will adjust the spreadsheet headings to suit etc etc.

Please remember that the whole point of this initial exercise is to try to get Halifax into offer making mode, as a result of Tuttsi meeting the financial hardship criteria described in the FSA complaints handling waiver. If we can get them to start making offers then matters will be a lot easier to decide.
But I would really like to get an interest element built into Tuttsi's hardship letter so that she can start any negotiating process from a better postion than just charges only.

If the hardship angle fails then Tuttsi has plenty of time to restate her claim, with compound interest attached if she wishes, and file it in court when required.

Hope this makes sense.

Rgds Budgie

[TANZARELLI]

Re: Tuttsi V Halifax ( 18 year claim )

I think I get where your coming from however if I remember rightly Tuttsi has already sent a past prelim and LBA (?) and therefore if the content is too different and they do make an offer for refund of charges then I think without clearly stating CI it would appear that she is approaching this from a different angle and this could be the reason for the offer they might make. If she then turns around and claims CI again they could argue she is purely being greedy and could make out she is perhaps being vexatious.

I think the wording needs to be clear and I will wait to see what your thoughts are on this Budgie.

JMO though.

Tanz

[Budgie]

Re: Tuttsi V Halifax ( 18 year claim )

As far as I can see from the earlier posts in the thread Tuttsi hasn't sent anything in to Halifax at all yet by way of a prelim or LBA.

Waiting for Tuttsi's draft letter and spready and then we can talk about the best way for her to proceed.

Rgds Budgie

[TANZARELLI]

Re: Tuttsi V Halifax ( 18 year claim )

As far as I can see from the earlier posts in the thread Tuttsi hasn't sent anything in to Halifax at all yet by way of a prelim or LBA.

Waiting for Tuttsi's draft letter and spready and then we can talk about the best way for her to proceed.

Rgds Budgie

You might be right and I could be confusing this with one of her other claims lol thats why I added a question mark after the comment.

Cool.

[TUTTSI]

Re: Tuttsi V Halifax ( 18 year claim )

Just for clarification I was working on this claim on CCS for AOP, but then it began to be impossilr for me to deal with a claim of that magnitude. Then the test case came about and I was stumbled again. Last March I did have intentions of starting the claim but never got arround to it because of other problems at home and unfortunately it took the back burner. I am anxcious now to get this claim off the ground and quite honestly I do not know how to start this prelim letter. I have the ending with regards to hardship but not the beginning of the letter and truly I would appreciate some help with an outline for the letter on how to approach this.

Incorporating the initial claim and the hardship together is new to tackle for me and any help with some indicators would really help.

I have already sent Budgie my spreadies with all the options so it is just the letter which now concerns me and the best way to tackle it.

Thanks xxxx

[TUTTSI]

Re: Tuttsi V Halifax ( 18 year claim )

I have now drafted a letter and sent it to Budgie and have already sent the spreadsheet. Just waiting his approval.

[TANZARELLI]

Re: Tuttsi V Halifax ( 18 year claim )

Cool post it up when ready.

[Budgie]

Re: Tuttsi V Halifax ( 18 year claim )

I have now drafted a letter and sent it to Budgie and have already sent the spreadsheet. Just waiting his approval.

LOL Tuttsi, you don't need my 'approval' for anything.

I have the spreadsheets and your draft letter and will apply a few tweaks here and there for you and then email back to you for posting up on this thread. I won't be able to finish off my bits until ths evening though !!!

Hopefully then others will also be able to add some comments etc and we can end up with a combined group / team approach.

Best Regards Budgie

[Amethyst]

Re: Tuttsi V Halifax ( 18 year claim )

Lol I just came to look at your letter as Bud said it was good, and its not on here Hummph.

Will have a look when its up.

[Budgie]

Re: Tuttsi V Halifax ( 18 year claim )

OK, I have emailed letter and spreadsheet back to Tuttsi.

Will leave her to post them up on here when she is ready for comments and suggestions etc.

Regards Budgie

[TUTTSI]

Re: Tuttsi V Halifax ( 18 year claim )

This is the finished amended version of the letter which I think is ready to go. If anyone has any comments or suggestions to add please let me know ASAP as I would idealy like to get this one posted tomorrow.

Also, is the address I have is Pitreavie Bus Pk if this is not correct can you let me know as I have not lodged a complaint previously.

I would also like to thank Budgie for his time in looking over the letter and adding his take on it, it is very much appreciated.

__________________________________________________ _____________
We are writing to you to request a refund of charges which were applied to our account during the period the account was opened from 1990 to date of closure 2002.

Further to recent publicity covering the High Court Test Case between the Office of Fair Trading and the Banks, we are now aware that these charges maybe considered unlawful at Common Law and Statute.

The High Court has decided that charges applied to our account can be assessed for fairness under the unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulation 1999.

We believe these charges to be unfair as the terms which apply to them fall under the remit of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, schedule 2 –paragraph (e) which states that contract terms which have the object or effect of “(e) requiring any consumer who fails to fulfil his obligation to pay a disproportionally high sum in compensation” may be regarded as unfair.

Additionally, we believe that older charges applied to the account are unlawful penalty charges and as such are recoverable at common law. Precedents for this include, but are not limited to Dunlop Pneumatic v New Garage [1915] AC 79, Murray v Leisure Play [2005] EWCA Civ 963 and CMC Group Plc and others v Zhang [2006] EWCA Civ 408.

If you believe that these charges are not unlawful penalties then we would be grateful if you would demonstrate this by providing a full breakdown of the costs you have incurred as a result of our breaches of contract, in order to satisfy us that your charges really do reflect your actual costs.

We calculate that you have taken £2281.50 in charges and additionally we believe that you should pay interest on these charges by way of compensation. We calculate this interest to be a total of £1993.49. We therefore require you to repay a total of £4274.99 as detailed in the attached spreadsheet.

We would further like to bring to your attention our severe financial hardship situation. We understand that our claim meets the FSA’s recent waiver update to the complaints handling waiver and their guidelines on financial difficulty.

Evidence supporting our financial hardship claim is attached as follows :-

Pages 1, 2 and 3 : Documentation relating to a suspended possession order, granted by the court, and recent evidence supplied by the first lender, xxxxx Mortgages confirming, in their Annual Statement, an arrears balance of £xxxx plus fees of £xxxx including interest, relating to the monitoring of the arrears. Please note that the lender agreed, prior to the hearing, for arrears to be settled at the rate of £xxxx per month in addition to the normal monthly contractual payment amount. We would like to add that repayments are governed by the libor rates which are substantially higher than the variable interest rates generally in use.

Page 4 : A letter dated 27th May 2008 confirming the present second mortgage arrears of £xxxx These arrears are being repaid at the rate of £xx per month in addition to the normal monthly contractual payment amount.

Pages 5, 6 and 7 : This correspondence relates to a charging order over our residential property which was finalised in court on 11th August 2008 where it became a full charging order instead of an interim charging order. The circumstances here show that the claimant is the xxxxxx School Ltd. Originally there was a debt due to the school relating to our daughters private education several years ago. The actual amount due to the school at the time she left was in the region of £xxxx. We made some payments but fell into arrears when my husband was ill. The school obtained a consent order for repayments to be made, but this failed due to continued illness and the School obtained judgement. We have still not been able to clear this debt which has led to the charging order. You will note from the application for the charging order at page 7 that the amount owing is £xxxxx including interest and that further charges will accrue. Also, the Court awarded costs relating to the full hearing, amounting to £xxxx which is to be added to the above figure.

Page 8 : A gas bill indicating an amount due £172.27

Page 9 : A electricity bill indicating an amount due £321.39

Page 10 : Evidence that a tax Credit award has been made. Please note that the child Tax Credit element ceased on 19th April 2008 at the time when my daughter reached the age of 20. Working tax credits still continue.

Page 11 : An updated spreadsheet showing our claim value as £ 4274.99 with Halifax at the present time.

Page 12 : A Joint personal budget sheet which shows a monthly deficit of £831.

We are both self employed. We also have a dependant daughter who we have to support as she is committed to attending University in September. Mr Tuttsi has had a lengthy period of illness over the last few years and following two emergency eye operations last year was unable to work for 5 months. This, of course, placed a tremendous strain on the household income. In addition, Mrs Tuttsi lost a large client last year and it took much longer than expected to replace the lost income. These related issues added to our overall hardship situation and were contributory factors as to why our mortgage and other repayments fell into serious arrears.

We are currently finding it very difficult to cope during the present economic climate coupled with the real threat of losing our home as a result of the suspended possession order.

This financial situation is putting a terrible burden on both of us and our family and we please ask that you consider our claim together with our circumstances given the current waiver criteria and the banking code.

We look forward to hearing from you within 14 days.

Yours faithfully


Mr x & Mrs x Tuttsi

[Amethyst]

Re: Tuttsi V Halifax ( 18 year claim )

We are writing to you to request a refund of charges which were applied to our account during the period the account was opened from 1990 to date of closure 2002.

Further to recent publicity covering the High Court Test Case between the Office of Fair Trading and the Banks, we are now aware that these charges maybe considered unlawful at Common Law and Statute.

The High Court has decided that charges applied to our account can be assessed for fairness under the unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulation 1999.

We believe these charges to be unfair as the terms which apply to them fall under the remit of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, schedule 2 –paragraph (e) which states that contract terms which have the object or effect of “(e) requiring any consumer who fails to fulfil his obligation to pay a disproportionally high sum in compensation” may be regarded as unfair.

Additionally, we believe that older charges applied to the account are unlawful penalty charges and as such are recoverable at common law. Precedents for this include, but are not limited to Dunlop Pneumatic v New Garage [1915] AC 79, Murray v Leisure Play [2005] EWCA Civ 963 and CMC Group Plc and others v Zhang [2006] EWCA Civ 408.

If you believe that these charges are not unlawful penalties then we would be grateful if you would demonstrate this by providing a full breakdown of the costs you have incurred as a result of our breaches of contract, in order to satisfy us that your charges really do reflect your actual costs.

We calculate that you have taken £2281.50 in charges and additionally we believe that you should pay interest on these charges by way of compensation. We calculate this interest at a rate of X% per annum totalling £1993.49. We therefore require you to repay a total of £4274.99 as detailed in the attached spreadsheet.

We would further like to bring to your attention our severe financial hardship situation. We understand that our claim meets the FSA’s recent waiver update to the complaints handling waiver and their guidelines on financial difficulty.

Evidence supporting our financial hardship claim is attached as follows :-

Pages 1, 2 and 3 : Documentation relating to a suspended possession order, granted by the court, an arrears balance of £xxxx plus fees of £xxxx including interest. The lender agreed, prior to the hearing, for arrears to be settled at the rate of £xxxx per month in addition to the normal monthly contractual payment amount of £xxxx. Total monthly payment now payable £xxxxxx until MONTH YEAR.

Page 4 : A letter dated 27th May 2008 confirming second mortgage arrears of £xxxx. These arrears are being repaid at the rate of £xx per month in addition to the normal monthly contractual payment amount.

Pages 5, 6 and 7 : This correspondence relates to a final charging order on our residential property dated 11th August 2008 for a total of £XXXXX (include the costs and amount owing)

Page 8 : A gas bill indicating an amount due £172.27

Page 9 : A electricity bill indicating an amount due £321.39

Page 10 : Evidence that a Tax Credit award has been made. Please note that the Child Tax Credit element ceased on 19th April 2008.

Page 11 : Spreadsheet detailing our current claim value as £ 4274.99

Page 12 : Joint personal budget sheet which shows a monthly deficit of £831.



We are both self employed. We also have a dependant daughter who we have to support as she is committed to attending University in September.

Mr Tuttsi has had lengthy periods of illness over the last few years and following two emergency eye operations last year was unable to work for 5 months from XXXXX to XXXXXXX.

This, of course, placed a tremendous strain on the household income.

In addition, Mrs Tuttsi lost a large client last year and it took much longer than expected to replace the lost income.

These related issues added to our overall hardship situation and were contributory factors as to why our mortgage and other repayments fell into serious arrears.

We are currently finding it very difficult to cope during the present economic climate coupled with the real threat of losing our home as a result of the suspended possession order.

This financial situation is putting a terrible burden on both of us and our family and we please ask that you consider our claim together with our circumstances given the current waiver criteria and the banking code.

We look forward to hearing from you within 14 days.

Yours faithfully


Mr x & Mrs x Tuttsi




Few changes, cutting unneccesary stuff mainly as its either irrelevant or on the documents attached. Couple additions of info I think should be in there - dates Mr T was off work and the rate you are claimimng interest at.

JMO.

Ame
xx

[Budgie]

Re: Tuttsi V Halifax ( 18 year claim )

I don't disagree with what Ame has suggested.
In this type of letter, shorter is always better.

No real need to mention the interest rate in your letter as it is already shown on the spreadsheet and I actually deliberately left it off so as not to draw any attention to it.

Budgie

[TANZARELLI]

Re: Tuttsi V Halifax ( 18 year claim )

Reads well both. I would ask them to confirm in writing that they have recieved the documents you are submitting and also ask for them to either be returned to you or destroyed after they have finished with them and if they choose to destroy them that you are informed as to how this is done.

This is only because I don't trust anyone with personal information given the current climate.