Payday Loan refund query

[loulouxx]

HI everyone,
I have written to all my payday loans requesting a refund or balances cleared (my last Payday loan was one of 20!) . I have one with payday Overdraft and I had a CCJ issued in 2012 for £1350 the loan was for £200! In 2014 I paid £850 in the agreement that it was full and final and that they would contact the court to say it had been satisfied. Fast forward to today. I have been going through everything and firing off letters for Irresponsible Lending when I look at my credit file and saw that the CCJ had not been change and was still active. This is the reason why I have been turned down for a rental property and also why my applications for one a job in the police admin dept and in the Financial Ombudsman Service. Absolutely livid. I wrote to Mr Hart (WPPL) asking for a refund of the interest £650 plus 8% over 4years. I have also asked for compensation of £500 for not sorting out the CCJ and for putting it there in the first place. In total it's £1414.

He has wrote back claiming that the business has closed down and that he will give me a letter, no mention of my requests. I have checked company house and it's still active plus on the FCA register it is active. I also found a sanction on WPPL in oct 2014 to stop them from lending or debt recovery and any payment requests they make have to be cleared by the FCA. My question is What happens if he says no? Can I go to the FOS and then if I win the small claims court?

Any help would be appreciated.

Kind regards

Loulouxx

[Amethyst]

Re: Payday Loan refund query

Hi loulou, Funnily enough I reposted your packaged bank account story earlier today Thank you for doing that it really has helped lots of people xx

As the judgment wasn't paid until 2014 it is unlikely that the court will agree to remove it based on evidence of payment and a full & final settlement - did you get anything in writing from Mr Hart at all ?

I think you should have applied to have that judgment set aside - you could try that now ? Obvs we'd have to look deeper into it and the reasons the misselling, irresponsible lending etc but without Mr Hart deciding to help you off his own back I can't see you getting that CCJ off your file any other way.

Was your loan originally taken out by WPPL or was it with microcredit and moved over to WPPL ?

Sharon
xx

[loulouxx]

Re: Payday Loan refund query

No worries glad I could after all the help I received xx

Yeah he is the owner of Payday Overdraft/WPPL and my Loan was taken out with PayDay Overdraft. I made them sign a document that is a full and final plus I have an email from Mr Hart that says the loan is settled. Can I get it set aside even though it's been 2 years and it's been settle? What's got to me is the fact that the loan was settled and one of the conditions was that he would change the CCJ that was done 2 years ago. Also the miss selling and irresponsible lending side of it I had already 20 other loans and was in a financial mess. In 2011 I attempted suicide was really a dark period. The original loan was £200, they went to court claiming over £1300!!!! Also I have an email that states I would enter them onto a DMP and pay them a token payment. He's response was no we are going to take the court route.

Horrendous company and staff

Louise xx

[Amethyst]

Re: Payday Loan refund query

Oh I know. He's trying to put it behind him... pity people who were mis-sold can't. Insane that £200 loan ended up being a £1300 CCJ... worse than a Lloyds overdraft !.

The original judgment - was it by default ?

Any chance you can post the agreement for the F&F ?



[MENTION=551]pt2537[/MENTION] [MENTION=48934]Debt Camel[/MENTION];

[loulouxx]

Re: Payday Loan refund query

Of course I can as soon as I get to my laptop I will have it to post on here. Yeah it was. I buried my head in the sand and just didn't want to face anything at that time. I don't have the original Loan agreement but I may have something as I've kept some of the emails just before the Judgement. Before he went to court he didn't default the loan just straight to court if that makes any difference.

[Debt Camel]

Re: Payday Loan refund query

Hi !

You didn't say when this payday loan was taken out. If a CCJ was issued in 2012, I am concerned that it might have been more than 6 years ago...

I am seeing a lot of payday refund complaints at the moment and there are two big murky areas - the cases where the lender has gone out of business and those where the loans are more than 6 years old.

The cases where the lender has gone out of business - most people with outstanding balances, now with debt collectors, are largely settling for getting those written off. I am aware of a couple of cases where there were no outstanding balances where the borrower has been told to put in a normal complaint to the FOS which will then be considered. There is the theoretical possibility of a claim on the FSCS. But in the cases so far the borrowers haven't had enough evidence of the old loans to proceed. (There may of course be other cases going through I haven't heard of.)

For loans older than 6 years, there can be good reasons why the FOS's 6 year rule should not apply. Attempted suicide would certainly be one of those (sorry if that sounds flippant, it isn't meant to be.)

Trying to get a CCJ set aside is a further complication.

To be honest, if this loan is more than 6 years old, I would forget about trying to argue the unaffordable original loan route. I think the chance of you surmounting all three of the lender out of business and the time bar and the CCJ complications is not going to happen.

You may still have a good reason to argue that the lender has not complied with the terms of your F&F - that would not fall foul of the time bar,

[loulouxx]

Re: Payday Loan refund query

I took the loan out in 2011 does that help? I still have some of the Original Emails from when they were chasing the loan

[loulouxx]

Re: Payday Loan refund query

I will upload everything I can find tomorrow morning for you both to have a look at.

Louise xx

[Debt Camel]

Re: Payday Loan refund query

OK, so a FO complaint cannot be time barred.

It seems to me that you have two issues. Although there is some overlap when it comes to remedies, let's look at them separately:

1) creditor said the CCJ would be marked as satisfied

There is (oddly, but there is no point in complaining about the rules) no means of marking a CCJ as partially satisfied - see http://www.trustonline.org.uk/unders...satisfied-ccjs.

So the question is, did the creditor promise that he would inform the court that the CCJ would be marked as settled in full? It would be good to see what you have in writing about this. Unless it is very clear, there is little point in try to pursue this.

Assuming that the creditor did promise this clearly:

I don't think you can go to the court to get the CCJ marked as settled with evidence of what the creditor said because CCJs are not meant to be marked as settled when they haven't been paid in full. You could possibly have a claim against the creditor for misleading you into making the F&F ... [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] what do you think?

But it seems better to go the FO to try to get this resolved. See below.

2) can you get a refund for the payday loan

Regardless of the CCJ issue, you have a case that the payday loan was unaffordable for you and that the creditor did not handle your situation well when you defaulted.

There is a template letter here http://debtcamel.co.uk/payday-loan-refunds/ but unless you took a series of loans from the same lender, your complaint should be orientated toward the poor treatment of you after the point you didn't repay the loan. That is a vast amount of interest to have added and you were clearly very vulnerable at the time. See https://blog.moneyadviceservice.org....gling-to-repay which is a blog written by a senior person at the FCA - use it as a checklist for everything the lender did wrong!
Include in your complaint evidence of the original loan(s) and the subsequent CCJ. Also evidence about your other financial problems and about your mental health situation during 2011.

I suggest asking for a refund of the £900 you paid to settle the CCJ AND for the cost to apply for a CCJ set aside application and an undertaking that the lender will not contest that (unless [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] has a better idea?)

If you win on this, then your first complaint becomes irrelevant.

Making a complaint about a lender that has ceased trading.

If the lender was still in business, I would have thought you would have a very good chance of winning this complaint.

As they aren't things are trickier and you could spend a lot of time and not get anywhere, I'm not saying don't try, just don't want you to get your hopes up. It is possible the arguments will be continuing at the point the CCJ falls off your credit file

The way to kick it off is to put in a formal complaint to the email address that is on the FCA register. If you get a reply saying that they will consider your complaint, fine. If your email bounces back, they don't acknowledge it within a couple of days or they reject it, then you need to put in the same complaint to the Ombudsman.

If the the lender has gone out of business, you may need to take your complaint to the FSCS (http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u...aints_a10.html) but this isn't clear at the moment.

[loulouxx]

Re: Payday Loan refund query

Thanks for the post. I'm going to finish my coffee then I will upload everything I have for this loan. I've check company house and FCA register and they show as still active x

[loulouxx]

Re: Payday Loan refund query

Hi,

I have attached the full and final document and below I have copied and pasted the emails I hope this will be enough if not let me know and I will see what I can find. My emails are in Pink he's are in Purple. Wish I had copies of the Text Messages he sent as those were threating and worse that the below.

Iwould also like to add that you happily took 4x the original loan amount fromme and would’ve have taken nearly 7times the loan amount as that was what youclaimed for in court. I have a right by the FCA guidelines which you didn'tfollow to claim that back. Not only that but even after I paid what was agreedyou didn't not keep to what was agreed and put the CCJ as satisfied so that hasdamaged my credit file for 2 years. The CCJ should never have existed in thefirst place had you not been lending irresponsible. I had over 15 payday loansoutstanding when I took out the one with you. Had you completed the correctchecks even just check my credit file you would have known how much trouble Iwas in. Even when I explained my situation you didn't care nor would you helpinstead you took it to court and damaged my file. I am given you the chancethat you did not give me. I am happy to negotiate with you.


Regards

Louise Brind

Thankyou for your reply. I under the FCA registration you are still registered evenif you are no longer trading. I understand but my complaint does still standdue to the issues I have written in my email to yourself. The CCJ has had adetrimental effect on my life as I have been unable to rent privately and notonly but I wasn't able to pass any application for 2 jobs one with the Policein the admin dept and secondly one with the financial ombudsman service.
Inregards to the Irresponsible lending that still stands. I have been fair inregards to what I have asked for. My compensation claim does still stand asyour company is still registered with the FCA so there fore are liable as anOwner/director. I will be seeking £1414. This is made up of £650 plus 8% for 3years. This is the amount of interest on the original loan amount. Plus extrafor the damage that hasn't been done with the wrongful CCJ that was put on mycredit file. This I believe will put me back to the position I would have beenbefore the loan I took with you. The company is still active as it is showingon Company Check as still active.

Kindregards

LouiseBrind

11/03/2016

HelloLouise,

Goodafternoon and thank you for your email.

Sadlythe company, although still in existence for now is no longer trading and is inthe process of winding down.

I amhappy to send you a letter to give to the court to dismiss any entry if thathelps.

Isthere anything else I can do to be helpful?

Ithasn't traded now for two years and there are no staff.

I amjust closing the Company and all its affairs.

Any suggestions where I can be helpful?
All the best,

Andrew HartFor and on behalf of WPPL Ltd


10/03/2016

Dear Mr Hart,

Court Ref: Northampton case number 2QT06540

As I am sure you are aware much emphasis has been placed onwhether payday loans were affordable. Definition of ‘Affordable’‘To qualify for a given amount of credit the borrower should be able tomake required repayments without undue difficulty, whilst continuing to meetother debt repayment obligations and reasonable regular outgoings’ .Refunds have been given as affordability checks were never or very little wasdone at the time of application.

I applied for a loan in Oct 2011. During this time I hadover 8 Payday loans with different companies plus I had a loan with Egg Bank. Iwas in a desperate situation regarding my finances. I have elderly parents whoalso were reliant on my wages as part of the household income. This informationwas available to you on my credit files with all 3 showing entries for each ofthose loans. Had the proper affordability checks been carried out byyourselves. I was earning around £1300 each month and I have the email fromwhen I first applied that shows you asked for my latest bank statement to showmy wages going into my account (your words not mine) Proof of ID and Address(passport and utility bill) and my latest wage slip. I sent the information yourequired and I was then approved for a loan of £200. I was unable to make apayment to pay back the loan and you sent me numerous amount of emails all ofwhich I have demanding pay the full balance. You were adding interest eachtime. I offered you £2 a month until a DMP was set up and I explained that Ihad been ill (I was ill due to the stress of Debt) But you dismissed this offerand said that you would be taking it to court and that the balance was now£1394!!!!! So that’s a £200 original loan with charges of £1194. I had soughtadvice from the FCA and was advised to complain. I was issued with a CCJ in2012 and I settled the balance with a £850 payment to you which you accepted asa full and final in March 2014.

I would like to see the steps you took for determined mysuitability and what you looked at that showed I could afford the loan.

As I said I have sought advice and I have been told thatwhen I was accepted for the loan it was irresponsible lending and the loanshould never had been approved in the first place if the proper checks had beendone in the first place. I have been advised that following the FinancialOmbudsman guidelines I am in my right to request the following resolutionthat is fair as per their guidelines

· I ask that you refund me £650 of the £850 that Ipaid back minus the £200 that was the loan that I borrowed. Plus 8% Per yearwhich is £52x2years. This totals to £754.

· I settled the CCJ in March 2014 but as of todayit is still active. I therefore have had this black mark against me for over 2years when it should have been put as satisfied. That was your job to get incontact with the courts so they in turn can change it.

· As the loan was unaffordable and should neverhave been given then in turn the CCJ should never have existed. I have appliedfor work with the police administration team and at the Financial OmbudsmanService and this black mark that has been on my account since 2012 (4years) wasa part in why I was never recruited as both of these require no judgements andI have no criminal record. I therefore request that as this wrongful CCJ wasadded onto my credit file I ask that you make a redress of £500 plus 8% @ £40 x4 years. This will be redress for both this and the redress for my point above.

· I ask that the CCJ be removed from my fileimmediately. I would also like to point out that no default was added to myfile either and it is my understanding that a default is to be issued beforeany CCJ is applied for. This is not the case.

To sum up I require redress of the following

£754 £650for the amount of paid charges that was added which should never have beengiven due to unaffordability and your irresponsible lending. This figureincludes 8% for 2years (£104)

£660 £500redress for the wrongful CCJ as it should never have been entered nor appliedfor as the loan should never have been given and that it has caused meembarrassment and that it may have stopped me from being recruited by both thePolice and Financial Ombudsman Service. Having this CCJ can also prevent mefrom obtaining my a rental property, something that I intend to do in the nextmonth. £160 is the added 8% as per the FOS for 4years (Time theCCJ has been on my file)

TOTAL: £1,414

If you do not believe my fair request to be fair. I will betaking my complaint to the Financial Ombudsman.

I await your reply. I also urge you to research into what Iam asking. I have attached all emails that show our correspondence.

Kind regards


I didn't receive any emails back from him. The last one was on 09/03/2012.

28/05/2012

FYİ-
My last operation will be on 6th June and İ have been advised that İ need6weeks healing time. İ have advised and asked the court if İ can make lowerpayments of £10 until İ am back to work fulltime which İ will then make the £50requested payment. İ can send you copies of my sickness certificates if youneed me to.
Regards
LouiseBrind

GoodMorning,
İhave made a payment of £10. İ have requested to the court that İ can onlyafford this amount as İ am currently off sick from work and am only recievingSSP. İ am yet to hear back.
Kindregards
Louise Brind

16/02/2012

Andrew,
Can you provide an account number and sortcode and bankname so that İ can set up a standing order ready for when the court come backto us.
Many thanks
Louise Brind

These Emails were from 09/03/2012
I will be making an application to the court to pay theamount in installments of £10 per calender month. I will send them a detailedlist of my expenses and income. Which I have ready from the CCCS.
Kind regards
Louise

I am sorry to hear that. Have you a compromise?
We have other people requesting loans that could begiven if you had repaid.
Andrew Hart
For and on behalf of Wage Payments andPayday Loans Ltd Trading

Andrew,
You cannot take what I have got. I have all my income andoutgoing which the CCCS has. This will only put in in further financialdifficulties.


Louise,
Thank you for getting in touch. You are welcome topay £10 but
following the notice period we will go for anattachment of earnings
order as we require a minimum monthly repayment of£150 plus bank fee
of £3.00
Please advise as the £10 is not an acceptablerepayment plan.
Andrew Hart


Good Afternoon,
I recieved the ruling to pay £1364. I have entered into aDMP with CCCS. I can either add this to that and they will keep records ofpayments made to you and set up on my behalf or I can put the money into anaccount choosen by yourselves each month. I can offer £10 each month. i willsent you a copy of my income and outgoings each month and what i currently payto CCCS to clear my other debts. I would like a quick response so that paymentscan be ready to start on the 28th march 2012.
Kind regards
Louise Brind


Emails Between me and Andrew - 17/02/2012
GoodAfternoon,
Canyou send me a statement in the post of what is to be paid. I need to forward itto CCCS as soon as possible to ensure the DMP is set up and ready to go.
Manythanks
Louise Brind


A postal order for how much and why?

Weare not refusing anything and if you write in with a postal order we can supplyyou your requirement
Andrew Hart

Andrew,


REF:Without prejudice-request for information.
Areyou saying you are not willing to accept any payment plan that can be set upwith my DMP. Also please state why you ignoring my request for a statement andbreakdown of charge which by law İ am entitled?
Manythanks
Louise brind


Areyou not willing to aknowledge my DMP?

Wishyou well.

Andrew Hart



The people on consumer credit forum have been very helpful. Theamount paid to you will be negociated between CCCS and yourself who will dividemy payment up between yourself and my other creditors. please send me a fullstatement and a breakdown of charges that İ can forward on to CCCS. Also abreakdown of the amount. i work it out to be £251.
kindregards
louise brind.


Pleasedo what you feel is right for you.

Wewill also be looking into your application to see what your replies were to ourstandard questions.
Amore acceptable repayment plan is available but £2.00 is not acceptable but wewill not refuse your payment.

Andrew Hart


Andrew,
İfthat is your wish. But as the court will clearly see İ cannot pay anymore thanwhat will be agreed with CCCS. İ will send you a copy of incomings andoutgoings.

Kindregards
Louise Brind

Thankyou for the advice but we prefer the court route.



Havea nice weekend

Andrew Hart





Louise Brind

i will contact my DMP company to find out whythey have not been in touch. İ will be be able to offer a token payment of £2per month. i will also provide details of my outgoings and income each month.You will then see that i am unable to give more.

Regards

Dear louise
We have tried relentlessly to cometo an arrangement with you that has been ignored or not handled in the agreedrepayment agreement as signed in your terms and agreement.
We are left with no other option butto commence court proceedings against you.
Please refer to the default chargesas listed in your T,s and C,s which list out the legal costs and charges plusinterest will accrue daily.
Once judgement is achieved you willstill be liable for interest and charges as we will still continue to loseincome on the monies we have lent you.

Regards,

Andrew Hart

[Amethyst]

Re: Payday Loan refund query

''also headed to acknowledge the Debt as satisfied and notify the court of this fact.'' http://legalbeagles.info/forums/atta...4&d=1457779529

This would only mark the CCJ as satisfied - it wouldn't remove it from your file.

So on the full and final side of things - you can send a copy of that and the evidence of payment to the court to have the CCJ marked as satisfied on the date of payment.

[loulouxx]

Re: Payday Loan refund query

I found these on line

- - - Updated - - -

What if the loan was unaffordable wouldn't that make the CCJ wrongful in the first place? Would satisfied still be as bad as it is now or better?

[Amethyst]

Re: Payday Loan refund query

The only way to get the CCJ off your credit file is to apply to have the judgment set aside - however you have known about it for couple of years, negotiated settlement and paid it, so I don't fancy your chances ( sorry). You could put in a defence with a reasonable prospect of success easy enough based on the mis-selling etc but the ' make the paplication promptly' kind of fails.

So you could try reclaiming the money from him, but I don't think you will get anywhere - WPPL is still active - I can't tell if it was a creditor action that stopped the strike off in January https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/c...filing-history - the accounts show they were in debt by £30k odd and there is a debenture over the company held by a third party.

Satisfied would be better than unsatisfied but would still affect mortgage apps etc - however if you can show it was paid it's better of course.

[loulouxx]

Re: Payday Loan refund query

How about taking it to the FOS and then small claims court if I win the complaint. The way he treated me was awful and I am willing to take this as far as it can go. He has ties to Mona Money and has other companies that he's involved in like hart investments. On the Companies House search for Directors he has 10 Appointments 4 are under Liquidation (Hart Investment holdings, CD Morgan ltd, Hart Investments ltd, Queens Lodge ltd) 4 are Active (DACM Property Invest Ltd, Money Mona Ltd, Wage Payment and Payday Loans, Global Kapital Group Ltd) 2 are Dissolved (Doris Rahimsuied Ltd and Nathan Hart Ltd)