Welcome finance - wfs advice 2015

[Struggling26]

I am 8 years into paying off £14700 secured loan + £2300 used to pay off a previous loan and still owe £5300 despite overpaying quite a lot over the last couple of years. I've likely paid £26-28k so far...

Due to overstretching my finances back then I resorted to payday loans which quickly spiralled to maintain payments to wfs. I'm just in the process of claiming irresponsible lending with some of these and have so far had a couple of wins.

It led me to wonder if I could do the same with wfs...based on similar principles...I believe that a proper assessment of my income and expenditure and affordability was not done. In addition to bad credit...a couple of historical defaults on my file and payments to debt collection agencies as well as a previous loan with wfs and a couple of late payments on this. In addition they allowed me to borrow based on a guesstimate housing valuation that wasn't verified or probably realistic.

I wrote for and have received all my paperwork - I've added a few bits to my complaint -

there seemed to be no credit checks included in the paperwork so i assume non was done for either loan
there are charges over £12 which i thought was the limit?
there is paperwork relating to ppi yet I am not sure if this was ever added or not - i asked welcome a few months ago but they said I never took it out
there doesn't seem to be any kind of proper affordability paperwork - detailing full income/expenditure
i missed a payment on the first loan of £2500 yet they continued to lend me £17,000
there were at least 2 debt collection agency regular payments showing on my bank statements they used but ignored

I'm hoping for the answer in the next 2-3 weeks but I was just wondering if anyone else has had a win with these kind of claims - I'm just hoping they write off the balance then I can get myself straight once and for all (keeping my fingers crossed). I'm maintaining payments in the meantime as it's a secured loan and i don't want there to be additional charges or any action taken against me.

[judgemental24]

Re: Welcome finance - wfs advice 2015

Welcome Finance was an organisation that specialised n lending to people with a less than perfect credit profile

A sub prime lender

The Affordability will have to be done, but hardly ever will be a document called a statement of means. You need to be asking for that as well as a statement of price. That told you the true cost extent of the loan with and without the micky mouse insurance products

Welcome were notorious in anything from including PPI to nuclear fall out insurance

[Struggling26]

Re: Welcome finance - wfs advice 2015

Welcome Finance was an organisation that specialised n lending to people with a less than perfect credit profile

A sub prime lender

The Affordability will have to be done, but hardly ever will be a document called a statement of means. You need to be asking for that as well as a statement of price. That told you the true cost extent of the loan with and without the micky mouse insurance products

Welcome were notorious in anything from including PPI to nuclear fall out insurance

I've just sent this -

In regards to my account - could you please send me copies of the 'statement of means' which should have been done to assess my full income and expenditure. Also, I would like a copy of the 'statement of price' which shows the breakdown of the original loan - cost of credit/broker fees/insurances and charges etc which will allow me to identify the true cost of the loan and any on-costs that have been added. I don't think either were included in the information sent to me last week.

hope that's about right....?! THANKS

[judgemental24]

Re: Welcome finance - wfs advice 2015

If they let slip with a document from "Welcome Elite Brokers" send me a PM

It was well known in certain circles welcome were selling their own insurance products at vastly inflated prices with Norwich Union as a pseudo underwriter. A company again linked to Welcome called Direct Group gave these policies an air of respectability.

People have won cases against welcome on this with undisclosed commission payments

Wilson v Hurstanger Ltd [2007] EWCA Civ 299

Welcome made out that Direct Group were the broker and administered the policy when it was Welcome themselves who were the broker selling the policy, hence Welcome Elite Brokers

[Kafka]

Re: Welcome finance - wfs advice 2015

I took these people on a few years ago and won.

When you say you received "all my paperwork" do you mean that you sent them a Subject Access Request? If you did then you should already be in possession of all personal data they hold on you.

In my case - and many others - the statements of account are critical because they don't like sending them unless forced to do. In my case they had added on various block sums as unspecified fees, which were no part of any agreement. It's tricks like this that enable them to still claim you owe a lot even when you have paid the debt off. You should also find lots of penalty charges added on for spurious reasons.

[Struggling26]

Re: Welcome finance - wfs advice 2015

I took these people on a few years ago and won.

When you say you received "all my paperwork" do you mean that you sent them a Subject Access Request? If you did then you should already be in possession of all personal data they hold on you.

In my case - and many others - the statements of account are critical because they don't like sending them unless forced to do. In my case they had added on various block sums as unspecified fees, which were no part of any agreement. It's tricks like this that enable them to still claim you owe a lot even when you have paid the debt off. You should also find lots of penalty charges added on for spurious reasons.

yes the sar - there are various pieces of paperwork but non which go into any detail re income/expenditure, clarify the £17,000 valuation which they set the loan against, credit reference checks or anything specifying affordability or creditworthiness...

there are a number of charges - admin fees at £59 etc.... also a small monthly charge which varies slightly for god knows what - monthly it doesn't mean much but over a 10 year period with i'm assuming added interest, will likely add up! I'll look into it in more detail tonight!

did you get the charges removed or any other action??

- - - Updated - - -

could you please detail the 'win' and any tips ;o)

- - - Updated - - -

I'll have a look - I think on the original loan of £2500 - there was a £235 fee though not sure if this was a broker or admin fee... will look in more detail tonight

- - - Updated - - -

I know they specialised in lending to people with less than perfect credit etc but would this still not hold up with FOS who upon dealing with, with my payday loan claims have said that my credit report and bank statements clearly indicate trends to borrowing/financial history as well as current financial responsibilities (debts) and affordability...

[judgemental24]

Re: Welcome finance - wfs advice 2015

The usual fee for Welcome to set up an Unsecured loan ws £75.00, any more smell undisclosed commission payments

In the early days they included that in the amount, not total amount of credit which made the agreement unenforceable

Wilson v, First County Trust

[Kafka]

Re: Welcome finance - wfs advice 2015

Fill yer boots 26.
I'll have a look through later as it was some years ago.

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...e-***RESULT***

[nemesis45]

Re: Welcome finance - wfs advice 2015

yes the sar - there are various pieces of paperwork but non which go into any detail re income/expenditure, clarify the £17,000 valuation which they set the loan against, credit reference checks or anything specifying affordability or creditworthiness...

there are a number of charges - admin fees at £59 etc.... also a small monthly charge which varies slightly for god knows what - monthly it doesn't mean much but over a 10 year period with i'm assuming added interest, will likely add up! I'll look into it in more detail tonight!

did you get the charges removed or any other action??

- - - Updated - - -

could you please detail the 'win' and any tips ;o)

- - - Updated - - -

I'll have a look - I think on the original loan of £2500 - there was a £235 fee though not sure if this was a broker or admin fee... will look in more detail tonight

- - - Updated - - -

I know they specialised in lending to people with less than perfect credit etc but would this still not hold up with FOS who upon dealing with, with my payday loan claims have said that my credit report and bank statements clearly indicate trends to borrowing/financial history as well as current financial responsibilities (debts) and affordability...

Did you get a copy of the loan agreement at any time?
There was so much rewriting and losing of paperwork going
on and after the company collapsed a lot of things went missing.

nem

[Struggling26]

Re: Welcome finance - wfs advice 2015

Did you get a copy of the loan agreement at any time?
There was so much rewriting and losing of paperwork going
on and after the company collapsed a lot of things went missing.

nem

yes i think so...

[Struggling26]

Re: Welcome finance - wfs advice 2015

just emailed them this to add to my points...

Could I add to my complaint the following -

I believe the charges listed below have been added incorrectly and expect the total amount + any interest charged on the amount + 8% standard interest compensated to my account...


Account number 2453619


DD attempted on Sunday 26th August 2007 despite my wages going into my bank and all other DD's taken on the last Thursday of each month. Was paid on Thursday 30th but a 'ad-hoc fee' charge of £20 was added on 26/8/07.


Penalty fees on 31st October 2007 of £168.10 - considering that I transferred from 1 welcome loan to another I would assume there would be no penalty fee and I don't believe this was identified in the credit agreement. The original credit agreement showed I should expect to pay £2161.19 after 6 months yet I was charged £2322.96.


Account number 2661419


on the secured loan information sheet - this identified a broker as Norton Finance - please identify whether any broker charges were included in the loan - I requested the transfer of the loan as an existing customer.


Could you identify what the £235 acceptance fee was for, bearing in mind I was transferring from one agreement to another and had already been charged £168.10 as a penalty fee for this on the old agreement.


Why is the first capitalisation £308.71 then it reduces greatly to £205.74 then £204.95 and so on - is this a mistake?


I made payment for 01/07/09 on 01/07/09 yet charges were added on 02/07/09 £25, 03/07/09 £10, 23/07/09 £10 despite past missed payments being brought up to date.


I don't understand what the monthly charge from 31/12/08 is 0.01, 0.24, 0.48, 0.50, 1.02, 1.14, nor the more recent simple interest especially considering I have been overpaying for some time.




*note - on the loan agreement front sheet - there is a number of missing documents which you failed to get prior to allowing the loan - income and expenditure report, customer declaration form, bsq/consent, accounts, consent form, capacity checklist, mortgage details, quote - please identify what each of these are and advise why these were missed/not considered prior to my application being granted.


also, on the agreement front sheet it states 'reason for approval' - written is 'incentive - daylist in file' ...please advise what this means.

[nemesis45]

Re: Welcome finance - wfs advice 2015

yes i think so...

Do you still have it?

If not a CCA request to Welcome would be well worth the £1 statutory fee.

nem

[Struggling26]

Re: Welcome finance - wfs advice 2015

i think it was in with the info they sent - its only a 1 pager though - not sure if it's the full agreement or not. looking at things, i think i didn't sign up to ppi... still hoping to go with the affordability/creditworthiness claims and there are a number of charges which i'm going to contest when i transferred over etc - a few hundred pounds but with the interest i've been paying on any unnecessary charges, it adds up!!

[nemesis45]

Re: Welcome finance - wfs advice 2015

i think it was in with the info they sent - its only a 1 pager though - not sure if it's the full agreement or not. looking at things, i think i didn't sign up to ppi... still hoping to go with the affordability/creditworthiness claims and there are a number of charges which i'm going to contest when i transferred over etc - a few hundred pounds but with the interest i've been paying on any unnecessary charges, it adds up!!

I think in this case get a CCA request sent to WF with the £1 statutory fee, use a postal order endorsed "for statutory fee only"
use the template from the forum library.

nem

[judgemental24]

Re: Welcome finance - wfs advice 2015

The wonderful world of Welcome accounting.

As you have noticed, welcome agreements and statements are designed so that unless you are a financial auditor, you have no hope of understanding.

Welcome have two sets of interest rates, that being APR and AER

The con is that all welcome agreements are front loaded, a sort of Mortage. Interest is paid upfront over the full term of the loan. That way they hit you with the maximum at the extortionate APR

If you pay the loan off early or have increased your payments the total amount of credit has to be reduced.