CCJ unknown debt

[Jonny28]

Hello I’ve recently found out that I’ve had a CCJ filed against me for a mail order account I allegedly had the default amount was registered at £810 but the creditor is claiming £1008.46 I don’t know what this debt is so I’ve asked the creditor for a copy of any signed credit agreement to prove the debt is mine and if it is I highly doubt the default amount was £810 I’ve been thinking I may apply for a set aside but I have really bad anxiety and personally I think it would make me ill having to attend a hearing could I opt not to have a hearing on the grounds of my anxiety also Lowel Solictors have told me they aren’t obliged to provide me with anything as this is a CCJ debt any replies will be greatly appreciated

[jaguarsuk]

Firstly, Hi and Welcome

At the current point Lowell Solicitors are right, the Claimant has a CCJ and they don't have to provide anything. If you were successful in setting the order aside they would then have to provide you with documents to prove the debt is owed as part of the proceedings.

Before applying for a set aside you can ask for the Claimant to consent to it being set aside, if they agree then there would be no need for a hearing to set the judgement aside. If they don't you can still on the application ask for the judgement to be set aside without a hearing.

If successful either by consent or a without hearing application you can have a Solicitor act on your behalf in the claim and then you wouldn't need to attend hearings, however if you wish to deal with the matter without a Solicitor you are best advised to go to a hearing.

You can send a letter requesting it be heard without you present based on your evidence set out in your witness statement, but the other party will attend and can argue against that witness statement without the judge being able to hear your counter argument due to you not being there.

I would say that it's not like you see on TV at the hearing, if you live in a large town or a city the hearing wouldn't be in a court room and it's more like you're in an office with the judge as well as the other party.

If like me your in a smaller local court, you go into the court room and it's much more informal than on TV. You and the other party both sit while discussing the matter with the judge.

[Brandy1234]

Lowell are just debt purchasers.

Past debt is not consideration, that to say, they did not lend you any money and therefore have no legal right to claim money from you. I think they just scan and purchase credit files and information from Trust on-line, which is the extent of their business model. I'm hopeful that in letting you know this, you will not be so anxious when it comes to dealing with them.

At some point, given you have contacted them, they will pursue this matter to court, but don't be anxious, all you have to do is let the court deal with it, you will turn up on the day, but the Judge will not expect you to say much, if anything, if you follow the correct court procedure for your protection.

If I were you, right now, I would ignore them, I would not call them and I would not take their calls or respond to any other letters they send. I would simply wait for them to issue a claim, I would welcome the claim, because, you can then, like I say, you get the chance to seek the courts protection by following the correct procedure for all ordinary consumers.

When they issue the claim and you have a claim number, then, you can put together a defence and bolster your defence by sending the court and Lowell a CPR 7 Notice and a Request for information under CPR 18

A CPR 7 Notice is simple, on A4 paper, and can be as simple as this:


In the XYZ Court Claim No: ABCD1276

BETWEEN

LOWELL BLAH DE BLAH
CLAIMANT
-AND-

YOUR NAME HERE

DEFENDANT


NOTICE PURSUANT TO
CPR 7, PD 7B, PARAGRAPH 10
DEFENDANT



1 i HEREBY GIVE NOTICE of my intent that these proceedings follow the Consumer Credit Act Procedure.

2 THIS NOTICE is hereby duly served on the Claimant and all and any parties concerned with these proceedings.


The Defendant attaches a Request for further information hereto, where a response is required within 14 days of this notice.

Dated this: [insert date]


sign it here

[print name here]
input your address here


THE CPR 18 REQUEST WILL ALSO BE ON A4 PAPER and will include content shown below


In the XYZ Court Claim No: ABCD1276

BETWEEN

LOWELL BLAH DE BLAH
CLAIMANT
-AND-

YOUR NAME HERE

DEFENDANT


REQUEST FOR FURTHER INFORMATION
PURSUANT TO CPR 18
DEFENDANT


1 In requesting this information I refer you to your particulars of claim dated XYZ

Requests

2. Please forward a copy of the original agreement under account number xyz ("the Agreement"), the pre-requisite fee of £1.00 is enclosed pursuant to s.78(1) of the CCA 1974;

3 Please forward a copy of the Default Notice mentioned in your particulars of claim at paragraph ABD therein and evidence in support;

4 Please forward a copy of a modified agreement that relates to account number XYZ dated on or before ABD

5 Please forward a copy of the deed of assignment referred to therein dated CDE

6 Please forward a copy of the Notice of assignment referred to in your particulars of claim

7 Please forward a copy of the Default notice relating to the modified agreement

8 Please explain where the sum of £FGH came from and how you obtained my personal data and confirm whether you have entered a default on y credit file

If you are unable to provide any of the information requested above, please provide a full explanation as to your reasons.

The Defendant requires a response to these Requests by no later than 4pm on XYX ['XYZ needs to show a date 14 days hence]

Dated this [enter a date 14 days prior to the date above and shown in the CPR 7 Notice]


sign it here

Print your name here

enter your full address including your post code


Your request for information must always relate to the claim they are making, which is shown in the 'particulars of claim', do not be tempted to ask irrelevant questions.

Once done and complete, you send a copy to the claimant and a copy to the court and keep a copy for your own records, along with copies of any other letters they send you, whatsoever they are, keep a copy for your record and MAKE SURE to send a copy to the court WITHOUT FAIL.

Thee are plenty of defences on the forum, anyone of them will do, just make sure to send a CPR 7 Notice and CPR 18 request for information at the same time and send them all to the court and claimant and keep copies for yourself.

Court is just an administrative process, it it not life or death, so, please don't be overly anxious, it's just paperwork/admin

[Diana M]

I would simply wait for them to issue a claim, I would welcome the claim . . .

When they issue the claim and you have a claim number, then, you can put together a defence and bolster your defence by sending the court . . . .

. . . Your request for information must always relate to the claim they are making, which is shown in the 'particulars of claim'

Once done and complete, you send a copy to the claimant and a copy to the court and keep a copy for your own records, along with copies of any other letters they send you, whatsoever they are, keep a copy for your record and MAKE SURE to send a copy to the court WITHOUT FAIL.

Thee are plenty of defences on the forum, anyone of them will do, just make sure to send a CPR 7 Notice and CPR 18 request for information

The OP has already got a Default Judgment for not responding to a claim which they didn’t receive (see post #1).

They would now be considering an Application to set aside the CCJ.

Part 18 Questions are not relevant post Judgment.

Di

[Brandy1234]

Hi Di,

Here is what the poster stated:

"Hello I’ve recently found out that I’ve had a CCJ filed against me for a mail order account I allegedly had the default amount was registered at £810 but the creditor is claiming £1008.46 I don’t know what this debt is so I’ve asked the creditor for a copy of any signed credit agreement to prove the debt is mine and if it is I highly doubt the default amount was £810 I’ve been thinking I may apply for a set aside but I have really bad anxiety and personally I think it would make me ill having to attend a hearing could I opt not to have a hearing on the grounds of my anxiety also Lowel Solictors have told me they aren’t obliged to provide me with anything as this is a CCJ debt any replies will be greatly appreciated"

I think we all know Lowell is not a mail order firm.
Lowell are merely alleging the poster had a mail order account
The poster knows nothing about the alleged mail order account and has, quite rightly, asked for further information

The poster suffers from anxiety and is unsure of the way forward and is contemplating whether or not she should apply to set aside the alleged CCJ.

If the CCJ is to the favour of Lowells, why have they not sought to enforce it via the proper channels?

They cannot enforce a CCJ that is not to there benefit. Simply put.

It is an 'alleged' CCJ, and even if it truly exists, why would one need to set it aside for the likes of Lowell??

Even if the poster did set the alleged CCJ aside, what use would that be to the poster, when she has no knowledge of the CCJ or the 'debt' and even if she does have knowledge of it, clearly which ever firm derived the CCJ is not chasing her, so why should she go to that expense and trauma setting off un-necessary anxiety attacks??

The poster is a consumer and should be protected in any way we can assist.

Let's not look to confuse the circumstances here.

As and when and If Lowell issue a claim, then the CPR 7 Notice must be sent along with the request for information under CPR 18.

[warwick65]

His Jonny

From reading your post I am assuming that Di was correct when she said you already have the ccj - is that the case or have you just had a claim form?

It might sound like a simple question but it is really important

If it is a ccj then your options are
1) Apply for a set aside but for that you need to have a good reason why you did not respond to the original claim e.g it went to the wrong address and it would help if you had a draft defence

2) You pay it all now- if the ccj was less than 28 days ago it will never appear on your credit file

3) Arrange with Lowell solicitors to make a repayment plan - in this case, it is possible that it may still not appear on your credit file - I am not sure of the technicalities but Diana M might well be able to explain

4) Apply to the court for a redetermination of an amount per month- in this case it will appear on your credit file


The first thing anyone would need to know before offering opinions is was Di correct - I am going to assume she was

Now just a bit of a warning
The process that has been suggested by Brandy is completely wrong (assuming there is a ccj) and not even what I would do if it was just a claim form


Brandy1234
You seem convinced there is no right for an agreement to be assigned or if it is assigned for the new owner cannot bring a claim - you are wrong

Most if not all CCA regulated contracts have a clause saying the account can be sold /assigned and when it has been assigned the new owner takes on the rights and responsibilities of said debt - there is case law to support this
Jones v Link Financial

One such case recently reported was Patricia Jones v Link Financial Limited [2012] EWHC 2402. Mr Justice Hamblen (sitting in the High Court and on appeal) considered an important issue for buyers and sellers of regulated consumer credit agreements: whether the assignee of a debt was a ‘creditor’ for the purposes of the Act. In a sensible and pragmatic decision, the High Court decided that an assignee is a ‘creditor’ and is therefore entitled to enforce the agreement against the debtor

The info you post is dangerous and wrong and the usual process advised here when receiving a claim works - well it did for me when we beat Lowell financial in a claim for £5000 in court - a win the claim was dismissed - I think the thread is the first one I started on the forum back in early 2017. The win was thanks to the firm Di represents (Joanna Connolly Solicitors) and an amazing Barrister Thomas Brennan


Incidentally, why are you assuming the poster is a she? Or do you know something we don't.

[Brandy1234]

His Jonny

From reading your post I am assuming that Di was correct when she said you already have the ccj - is that the case or have you just had a claim form?

It might sound like a simple question but it is really important

If it is a ccj then your options are
1) Apply for a set aside but for that you need to have a good reason why you did not respond to the original claim e.g it went to the wrong address and it would help if you had a draft defence

2) You pay it all now- if the ccj was less than 28 days ago it will never appear on your credit file

3) Arrange with Lowell solicitors to make a repayment plan - in this case, it is possible that it may still not appear on your credit file - I am not sure of the technicalities but Diana M might well be able to explain

4) Apply to the court for a redetermination of an amount per month- in this case it will appear on your credit file


The first thing anyone would need to know before offering opinions is was Di correct - I am going to assume she was

Now just a bit of a warning
The process that has been suggested by Brandy is completely wrong (assuming there is a ccj) and not even what I would do if it was just a claim form


Brandy1234


You seem convinced there is no right for an agreement to be assigned or if it is assigned for the new owner cannot bring a claim - you are wrong

Most if not all CCA regulated contracts have a clause saying the account can be sold /assigned and when it has been assigned the new owner takes on the rights and responsibilities of said debt - there is case law to support this
Jones v Link Financial



The info you post is dangerous and wrong and the usual process advised here when receiving a claim works - well it did for me when we beat Lowell financial in a claim for £5000 in court - a win the claim was dismissed - I think the thread is the first one I started on the forum back in early 2017. The win was thanks to the firm Di represents (Joanna Connolly Solicitors) and an amazing Barrister Thomas Brennan


Incidentally, why are you assuming the poster is a she? Or do you know something we don't.

Why would you suggest these things when "Di" says she won a case/?

Did "Di" pay MBNA??

Did you pay the firm you won against??

I know I didn't pay Lowell a penny, so why would you suggest the poster should pay??

Why not tell the public what you did to win the case you say you won, surely that may be more useful to the poster.

Are you sure you know what you are saying about 'assignments' of rights?

s.82A has been totally obliterated from the CCA 1974, more than aptly done in the public interest imo.

I think you should take a look at s.82A CCA 1974 and let us all know what you find.


.

[warwick65]

The difference is, I received a claim and defended it. I win and the claim was dismissed.

Jonny seems to have received a claim at some point, maybe not to the right address and not successfully defended it.

I merely pointed out the options available at this time.

You seem to be approaching it from the position of no claim or judgement having been made which is of no use to anyone.

I have no idea what Di's dealings with either MBNA or indeed the claimant were and I have no need to know.

For my part, I would hardly have paid Lowell now would I if I then went on to defend a claim.

As for S82a being repealed
Two points
It does not stop debts being assigned
It was not retrospective

Go and read my thread if you wish
Response to LBA
CCA REQUEST.
CPR31. 14 request

SAR to cap 1

They could not show a DN had been issued - case dismissed

There were other arguments which did not even get addressed
Non compliance with S78
Probably could not prove assignment chain- dates differed and a week of it being in limbo
Unable to show how the debt had accrued

Oh and costs awarded in the SCT

Now please troll off unless you have something accurate to say

[Brandy1234]

The difference is, I received a claim and defended it. I win and the claim was dismissed.

Jonny seems to have received a claim at some point, maybe not to the right address and not successfully defended it.

I merely pointed out the options available at this time.

You seem to be approaching it from the position of no claim or judgement having been made which is of no use to anyone.

I have no idea what Di's dealings with either MBNA or indeed the claimant were and I have no need to know.

For my part, I would hardly have paid Lowell now would I if I then went on to defend a claim.

As for S82a being repealed
Two points
It does not stop debts being assigned
It was not retrospective

Go and read my thread if you wish
Response to LBA
CCA REQUEST.
CPR31. 14 request

SAR to cap 1

They could not show a DN had been issued - case dismissed

There were other arguments which did not even get addressed
Non compliance with S78
Probably could not prove assignment chain- dates differed and a week of it being in limbo
Unable to show how the debt had accrued

Oh and costs awarded in the SCT

Now please troll off unless you have something accurate to say

Your two points regarding s.82A, are interesting, are you sure you are being 'accurate'?

It might be interesting for you to point us to the s.82a you speak of, i.e the s.82a that does not stop debts being assigned and that was not retrospective??

I did not follow your thread to win my case, sorry, I won it without your kind input thanks ; )

Oh, and I got my costs too, even after they discontinued their claim, so, sorry, you cannot assist me, I am a consumer, the court assisted me after I followed the consumer credit protection procedure under CPR 7 and CPR 18.

I must say, I resent you referring to me as a 'troll', you clearly have no idea that ordinary consumers like me win cases fair and square, and will seek out public forums to post the truth of the process for all ordinary consumers like me.


I don't resent your claimed success at all, I have not referred to you as a 'troll', so quite why you appear so disappointed with the way I went about deriving my success, beggars belief

[jaguarsuk]

I’ve had a CCJ filed against me

Brandy1234 see the bold. From the available information there is a CCJ and so Lowell do not have to provide information, they have already won in their eyes.

I think both I and Diana M are both correct is reasoning that this is post Judgement and advising set aside as the course of action.

It's all well and good saying Lowells haven't enforced or they might not own it, even if that is the case it can be enforced by the Claimant (Lowell or othewise) at any time and that would result in a credit file entry.

Lowell are a debt purchaser, so saying they aren't a mail order company doesn't mean they haven't purchased a debt from one. I assume the OP knows it's for a mail order account based on the POC of the claim when enquiring with the court. I'm gonna take a punt and say it's Next Directory as there seems to have been a lot of activity with their accounts that have been purchased recently.

The only way to properly deal with this is have the judgement set aside.

What the actual legal arguments are to defend the claim if the judgement is successfully set aside are going to depend on the documents the Claimant can produce and what the POC actually says.

At this stage the OP can write to Lowell telling them they have no right under s82A of CCA 1974 and Lowell will just write back saying we have a judgement pay up or else. Nothing the OP says to Lowell will change their stance of having a judgement, so pay up.

If the OP pops up to say it's a Claim Form, then that's different. Without further information we'll never know.

[Jonny28]

Hi all thanks for all the replies they are appreciated This is an active CCJ which I apparently got in January 2015 I wasn’t aware until Lowell Solicitors wrote to me recently stating they have a CCJ I checked my credit profile and can see the CCJ apparently it’s for a mail order account I had in 2012 that defaulted in 2013 I really have no recollection of it and if it is my debt I highly doubt it’s defaulted with an £810 balance plus court costs on top

[warwick65]

Hi
So please forgive me for sounding thick

Are you saying
you never had a mail order account
You might have done but don't recall
You did and you knew it defaulted but think the amount is way too high
Or is there a default on your credit file and you are assuming this is the one that gave you the ccj

While i do remember having a ccj many years ago I do not think my credit file said what it was for

[Jonny28]

Hi I do remember having mail order accounts in 2006 that defaulted but Lowell allege I had one in 2012 that defaulted in 2013 i don’t recall having mail order in 2012 but if I did I HIGHLY disagree with the amount They say I owe, taking my accounts in 2006 into consideration those accounts only had small credit limits ranging from £150-£250

[Brandy1234]

From the sounds of it, it is Lowell who are making allegations based on a CCJ entered against the poster by a firm they bought a debt from.

This is not the same as Lowells saying "they" obtained a CCJ against the poster in a court of Law.

[jaguarsuk]

From the sounds of it, it is Lowell who are making allegations based on a CCJ entered against the poster by a firm they bought a debt from.

This is not the same as Lowells saying "they" obtained a CCJ against the poster in a court of Law.

I don't actually think it matters if they are acting as agent for someone who has obtained a judgement or they have obtained it themselves.

The fact remains that there is a County Court Judgement which the Claimant, whomever that may be could move to enforce at any time.

Pedantically arguing over whom the Claimant is serves no purpose as they are well within their right to employ an agent to trace defendants and enforce their judgements if they wish.