DCM Money Solutions - In administration

[Amethyst]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

Post from an MSE user which I hope they won't mind me copying over for people who find this thread first.

Hi all

Just to keep you all posted.

I spoke to the CCCS about half an hour ago; their advice was, according to the figures I gave them, and the amount I now earned, the best advice, FOR ME, was to take a deep breath and resume contractual monthly payments with the creditors. She said they were always there if we needed help, but really a DMP would probably not be the best course of action for me.

I am NOT going to Cleardebt- I can't trust again- no way.

CCCS were lovely- very helpful, very practical, and I advise ANYONE who may be considering Cleardebt- please please speak to the free ones first; I know that Cleardebt are offering the plans free of charge, but just see what's out there first. You'll be glad you did.

Ok. I'll be hitting the phone on Monday then....

[rednelly]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

Hi,

I'm doing this from a clunky smartphone, so apologies if this ends up full of misstypes or if I forget any of the points raised since last I posted.

First, we are completely unconnected with ClearDebt solutions Ltd.

Second, Abacus is a wholly-owned subsidiary of ClearDebt Group and is responsible for the administration of debt management plans.

Then, we always advise on the complete range of solutions and will recommend bankruptcy and DRO if appropriate. We also draw attention to sources of free advice, as does any compliant debt resolution company.

Yes, our fee charging DMPs, are going to be more expensive than those offered by creditor funded or taxpayer-funded organisations. But, we often achieve interest rate freezes (by no means always, I have to admit) and we do make distributions, which some debtors find challenging. We are also there to help at a time when the non fee chargers admit they can only deal with half Britain's demand for debt services.

I would hope (and expect) that if we were approached by someone who could afford to repay all they owe we would tell them so. Certainly, many of our website enquirers are "Solvent but worried".

I am glad people are exercising their cynicism here: my industry needs that as part of the process of establishing public trust that we are going through right now.

But, what's actually wrong with providing good advice and service and attaching a price tag to it?

Remember, a lot of debtors can afford advice (really - I know it sounds odd, but it is true) and they benefit from it (so do their creditors). Why shouldn't they pay for it, leaving taxpayers money to be focussed on those for whom advice and help is completely unaffordable.

That presumes also that free advice is always going to be good advice. Whilst the free sector has specialised, trained advisors, it also has many volunteers who could benefit from the full time experience and 210 hours study held by many advisors employed by fee-charging firms (and all of ours).

Night all

[Amethyst]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

''ABACUS SENIORMANAGEMENT
Darren Bott (aged 31), Operations Director
Darren is the operations director of Abacus with responsibility for the day to day running of Abacus,
including responsibility for training and managing the company’s telesales sta¡ and back-o⁄ce systems. He
has had a number of sales roles, including over four years at debt management company Gregory
Pennington Limited. He founded a debt management company, Understanding Finance Limited, in 2002,
with the help of Daniel Morris. Due to the success of Understanding Finance Limited, its business was
transferred to Abacus in December 2003 and Darren simultaneously became a 50 per cent. shareholder in
Abacus.''


Is that still the case? No offence meant to Mr Bott, as people make mistakes or hook up with the wrong people and then turn themselves around, but he is linked with a couple of firms who haven't had quite the same principles as ClearDebt appear to have, mainly Kerobo and if you have a look at threads on here and MSE you'll see a number of different issues with Kerobo) Then of course theres historics with various companies sprining up from the ruins of failed Claims Management Companies (big example being Grass Roots from the ashes of Cartel Client Review)


Cleardebts announcements on DCM/Apex do not mention Abacus ?

It is things like that which feed the mistrust of the industry.


When a client is in a DMP through cleardebt and a company doesn't accept or accepts for a while and then gets shot of the debt to a DCA or decides to take its own action and a court claim comes through the clients door - what does Cleardebt do/advise the client ?

That appears to be one of the issues a number of clients have experienced with Apex, and other DMCs, including CCCS I might add.

From a personal view CCCS were pretty useless and basically told me to enter an admission and let it get rubberstamped through Northampton court - despite having been making payments on my DMP for a year. Thankfully I was a little more aware that the claimants had no right to just add a near £2k collection charge to the account so successfully defended that part of the claim but still came out with an installment order (same amount I had been paying through CCCS) but secured with a charging order.

The rest of the service from CCCS (have been with them 5 years and have just cleared everything) was excellent. It didn't cost me a bean, 100% of my payments went to the creditors and only that one creditor (out of about 12) took court action.

I'll let Latchkey and Nibbler respond to your comment on the training side of the free advice charities.

[Amethyst]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

25th Feb - IVAs boost profits for ClearDebt | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk


Some useful info.

Debt Management Guidance for DMCs. - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/bus...ces/oft366.pdf

Using a commercial DMC? http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/App...ce/oft1048.pdf

DRF - Debt Resolution Forum - (Cleardebt are members) The Debt Resolution Forum

DEMSA - DEMSA - Debt Managers Standards Association (approved COP http://www.demsa.co.uk/wp-content/up..._no_banner.pdf)

[rednelly]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

[QUOTE=Amethyst;204318]''ABACUS SENIORMANAGEMENT
Darren Bott (aged 31), Operations Director
Darren is the operations director of Abacus with responsibility for the day to day running of Abacus,
including responsibility for training and managing the company’s telesales sta¡ and back-o⁄ce systems. He
has had a number of sales roles, including over four years at debt management company Gregory
Pennington Limited. He founded a debt management company, Understanding Finance Limited, in 2002,
with the help of Daniel Morris. Due to the success of Understanding Finance Limited, its business was
transferred to Abacus in December 2003 and Darren simultaneously became a 50 per cent. shareholder in
Abacus.''

Mr Bott is no longer a director of any company in the ClearDebt Group. He is no longer employed with the ClearDebt Group nor has any association with ClearDebt in any way.

ClearDebt's association with Mr Bott officially terminated on 15 June 2009 - but he had not been working with us for some months prior to that.

[Jacqueline Cohen]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

Hi all

I've seen all the latest threads on the DCM worries and can re-iterate the facts Andrew has been saying.

Clear Debt Solutions are a completely separate company to us.

Regarding Darren Bott - he is no longer connected to Abacus (Financial Consultants) Ltd and hasn't been some time. Andrew will be commenting on this further for you.

Our staff here will always advise on every solution for someone calling in and would never stear someone towards a solution unless it was believed to be the most appropriate one for them. We do not apply pressure selling.

You might want to check out some of our reviews on IVA Comparison Site - Compare IVA Plans & IVA Firms | IVA.com - I know this is ivas as well - but it's a useful site which shows how current clients review us as a company. The site is impartial and we have no connection to it.

Hope this helps.

[rednelly]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

25th Feb - IVAs boost profits for ClearDebt | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk


Some useful info.

Debt Management Guidance for DMCs. - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/bus...ces/oft366.pdf

Using a commercial DMC? http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/App...ce/oft1048.pdf

DRF - Debt Resolution Forum - (Cleardebt are members) The Debt Resolution Forum

DEMSA - DEMSA - Debt Managers Standards Association (approved COP http://www.demsa.co.uk/wp-content/up..._no_banner.pdf)

Can I suggest you also add DRF's standards - which are currently going through the OFT's codes approval process.

And, DRF's consumer complaints process - fully independent, majority of lay members and chaired by the Chief Money Advisor at Advice UK.

[Jacqueline Cohen]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

Hi again

Just another note - I had a catch up with one of our advisors just now - waiting for the kettle to boil in the office kitchen and he has told me that just yesterday there were several cases where callers who were DCM clients were not in a financial position to continue effectively in a DMP or consider an IVA. In those cases, they have been providing advice about bankruptcy and DROs.

I just thought based on the debates going on here - this was information worth sharing with you.

[rednelly]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

''ABACUS SENIORMANAGEMENT

I'll let Latchkey and Nibbler respond to your comment on the training side of the free advice charities.

Love to talk about training (I'm involved in DRF as well as ClearDebt).

The prospectus for CertDR gives an idea of it's scope and depth.

[Jacqueline Cohen]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

Hi there - just coming back to something Amethyst posted last night.
You asked about what happens if someone is in a DMP with us and their debt is passed from the creditor to a DCA - and then the DCA pursues court action?

We do actually have an in house creditor liaison team. This was put in place to create stronger relations with creditors, enabling us to talk with them about client cases and negotiate effectively on repayment agreements.

If a client receives information from a creditor or DCA that court action is being considered, we will always offer advice and support on this. All our staff are CertDR trained and can therefore assist clients in this situation.

[Latch Key Kid]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

Hi,

I'm doing this from a clunky smartphone, so apologies if this ends up full of misstypes or if I forget any of the points raised since last I posted.

First, we are completely unconnected with ClearDebt solutions Ltd.

Second, Abacus is a wholly-owned subsidiary of ClearDebt Group and is responsible for the administration of debt management plans.

Then, we always advise on the complete range of solutions and will recommend bankruptcy and DRO if appropriate. We also draw attention to sources of free advice, as does any compliant debt resolution company.

Yes, our fee charging DMPs, are going to be more expensive than those offered by creditor funded or taxpayer-funded organisations. But, we often achieve interest rate freezes (by no means always, I have to admit) and we do make distributions, which some debtors find challenging. We are also there to help at a time when the non fee chargers admit they can only deal with half Britain's demand for debt services.

I would hope (and expect) that if we were approached by someone who could afford to repay all they owe we would tell them so. Certainly, many of our website enquirers are "Solvent but worried".

I am glad people are exercising their cynicism here: my industry needs that as part of the process of establishing public trust that we are going through right now.

But, what's actually wrong with providing good advice and service and attaching a price tag to it?

Remember, a lot of debtors can afford advice (really - I know it sounds odd, but it is true) and they benefit from it (so do their creditors). Why shouldn't they pay for it, leaving taxpayers money to be focussed on those for whom advice and help is completely unaffordable.

That presumes also that free advice is always going to be good advice. Whilst the free sector has specialised, trained advisors, it also has many volunteers who could benefit from the full time experience and 210 hours study held by many advisors employed by fee-charging firms (and all of ours).

Night all

Hi rednelly

Hope you had a good relaxing nights sleep

I am glad to hear that you also recommend bankruptcy and DROs as one would expect it is just that until I posted there did not seem to be any mention of these other formal solutions...only a fairly robust promotion of IVAs, in my opinion of course (that to be fair did highlight it is 5 years, sometimes more, rarely less, hard work for the debtor) which I did find a little strange taking into account the context of your original post.

Just out of interest what happens to the people where you recommend bankruptcy & Debt Relief Orders?

Also if you dont mind me asking -what happens to clients who have no disposable income where token offers are all they can afford who in turn cannot or do not want to follow one of the formal debt remedies?

It is just that I think I read on another forum that there may be certain DMC's that can only actually assist / take on between 1 or 2 out of 10 of the enquiries they receive - is this really true given your comments on the non fee chargers 'admitting' they can only deal with half britains demand for debt services? I will see if I can find the link somewhere

PS - I am of the opinion that if someone wishes to pay for debt advice and can afford to do so then it should be their choice as long as they do receive the appropriate advice and support and not what is best for the provider so there is no real bias from me there.

Ill give you chance to answer if you wish and will be back later to address any other points and even discuss training issues to the best of my knowledge if you like.

[Latch Key Kid]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

Hi

No reply, and its getting late, so......

Night all

[rednelly]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

Hi rednelly

Hope you had a good relaxing nights sleep

I am glad to hear that you also recommend bankruptcy and DROs as one would expect it is just that until I posted there did not seem to be any mention of these other formal solutions...only a fairly robust promotion of IVAs, in my opinion of course (that to be fair did highlight it is 5 years, sometimes more, rarely less, hard work for the debtor) which I did find a little strange taking into account the context of your original post.

Well, it would be strange if we did not robustly promote IVAs - given that that is where we make our money. However, we find there is no need to pressure anyone into a solution - because there are always going to be enough people who genuinely need what we provide - it's just vital for our long term reputation in the market that we always do our utmost to give appropriate advice - it's, in my opinion, one of the reasons ClearDebt has grown more slowly than some competitors.

Just out of interest what happens to the people where you recommend bankruptcy & Debt Relief Orders?

Well, first, we don't - currently - get many people who are suitable for DROs - the criteria are just too restrictive. Come April, this may change. I think it's a damn shame the last Government decided to enable the DRO (other than that it undoubtedly helps some who can't afford to go bankrupt) - the Enforcement Restriction Order would have been far more helpful and would have encouraged people to deal with money worries at the time they first occur - rather than waiting.

Personally, I wish we had something like Scotland's Debt Arrangement Scheme (DAS) in England and Wales.

OK - back on topic. In all our calls we advise people that there is free advice available (we have to). Where bankruptcy or DRO is advised we specifically signpost sources of help or explain to an individual how they can begin the process themselves. Occasionally, with people who want to choose bankruptcy and who either have some resources, have complex financial situations (some self-employed people for example) and/or feel the process is beyond them we will refer them to a specialist who assists with the form filling for a fee: this is never more than a handful a month.

Also if you dont mind me asking -what happens to clients who have no disposable income where token offers are all they can afford who in turn cannot or do not want to follow one of the formal debt remedies?

This, and your next paragraph - quoted below, raise an interesting point. It's my view that those who can afford debt advice and the administration/execution of a debt resolution scheme should pay, rather than the taxpayer. It's also my view that the creditors (who also benefit from effective debt resolution) should pay too.

ClearDebt set itself out to be the lowest cost IVA provider in the marketplace and we were probably responsible for the IVA gravy train hitting the buffers a few years ago. Since the IVA protocol came in we've always charged fees that are protocol compliant - but we still deal with unsecured debts down to £10,000 in an IVA and sometimes lower - so our IVA book radically overlaps many competitors debt management book.

With people who really cannot afford to pay we do, of course, reiterate the availability of free advice agencies.

People who don't want to follow a formal debt remedy, in my view, fall into two categories - those who are struggling less than they think and who can be advised that belt-tightening will suffice and those who genuinely need help but can't pull their head out of... ... the sand. In the latter case, we signpost all the advice there is, but some of my colleagues in advice think that the chance of the caller doing anything is remarkably small.

It is just that I think I read on another forum that there may be certain DMC's that can only actually assist / take on between 1 or 2 out of 10 of the enquiries they receive - is this really true given your comments on the non fee chargers 'admitting' they can only deal with half britains demand for debt services? I will see if I can find the link somewhere

I don't think we are untypical in the industry and I am told that, of the calls we receive, roughly 50% are people we can help and that people who are worried but solvent represent just over half the remainder and people who we cannot offer our service to (but to whom we will still give initial advice) represent just under half the remainder.


Below is an article setting out Money Advice trust's position on the non fee-charging sectors's capacity issues.

Debt charities overwhelmed by recession - Times Online

It's older than I remember - but I don't think anything material has changed. It continues to be stated in a variety of places and was raised when CA lost face-to-face debt advice funding (and then - rapidly - had it temporarily reinstated) a short while ago.

Publically, they've stressed lack of capacity less - this is from December 2010:

"Joanna Elson OBE, Chief Executive of the Money Advice Trust, which commissioned the research, said: “The last few years have required debt advice charities like ours to bring about a step change in our capacity, not just to help people out of their immediate debt problems, but also to help them back into financial health with longer term planning.

“Should unemployment rise next year to the extent that independent forecasters predict, together with potential interest rate rises, it seems we will face further challenges in meeting new demand for help. However, the research has also unearthed a challenge that exists already — namely that only one in six people with a debt problem seeks advice. It is vital that anyone struggling with debts is able to make informed decisions and understand all of their options; the best way to do that is to seek advice from independent experts."

I think you need to read between the lines here: I am convinced there are still real capacity problems.

PS - I am of the opinion that if someone wishes to pay for debt advice and can afford to do so then it should be their choice as long as they do receive the appropriate advice and support and not what is best for the provider so there is no real bias from me there.

Ill give you chance to answer if you wish and will be back later to address any other points and even discuss training issues to the best of my knowledge if you like.

Thanks for the above - delighted to discuss other issues. And thanks to the forum for listening. I'm afraid I sort of expected knee-jerk hostility and was pleasantly surprised to get robust questioning. We'll take pains to respond whenever we can - but it may not always be immediately.

[leclerc]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

red, am not sure if you have posted this here but I know you have elsewhere:

"Hi, I am pleased to report that we have now received all Apex DCM’s client details from the administrators.
However, PLEASE NOTE, that we will not be in a position to provide details to former APex DCM clients for a couple of days, until we have been able to cleanse the data and register it onto our system, so that is it is available for advisors to use.
However, the data does include fields for creditor identities, account numbers, starting and current balances. However, please note it is data obtained from Apex DCM and, therefore, is only going to be as accurate and as up to date as they were.
This data should be available this week and we will report this as soon as it is. Meanwhile, if anyone wants ta callback when the data is available, they should email apexenquiries@cleardebt.co.uk or telephone 0800 612 3318. Our call volumes our very heavy at the moment and we will respond on a “first come, first served: basis."

Yes I do read your tweets

[Jacqueline Cohen]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

Hi Leclerc

This is right - we are just sorting all the data out so that we can give Apex clients their information.

As soon as it has been put on our system, I'll put another notice on here.