debt handling firms

[Guest]

Hi
In my first post I want to examine the role of the debt management company in the consumer credit scene.
Recently Bye Buy Credit a debt management firm was closed down leaving hundreds of punters out of pocket as they lost their up front payments.
Horror stories of impossible promises being made by both them and their solicitors are reported.
I think we have to be very careful and examine Culrybens first post on this forum.
I believe the purpose of a forum like this is to help redress the balance that is so heavily stacked in the creditors favour.
I do not believe that it is for a gathering of people whose only aim is to avoid paying there bills.
Constant vigilance is required to prevent the incursion of touts from these industries integrating you ranks, you must always be sure that no one person is put into a position where he can direct the thoughts and actions of others without fear of question.
I hope your process of moderation ensures that all arguments are heard, without excuse or privilege.
Peter

[Amethyst]

Re: debt handling firms

Hi Peter, welcome to Beagles

Hi

I think we have to be very careful and examine Culrybens first post on this forum.

Which post do you mean? ~~~ Consumer Credit Agreements - A Guide ~~~~ inc. Letters - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum that one or another ?

I believe the purpose of a forum like this is to help redress the balance that is so heavily stacked in the creditors favour.

I do not believe that it is for a gathering of people whose only aim is to avoid paying there bills.

Precisely.

The arguments you have had previously with PT are between the two of you and we would be grateful if they could not encroach on here, and we can start afresh. LB have never encouraged unecessary debt avoidance, and as shown by the guidance posted by Curly (linked above) you can see our general stance.

Bye Buy Credit I don't believe were a debt management company (by this I think more of people like Churchwood, Greg Penn and Kensington etc. who run DMPs for people and charge exhorbitant fees for doing so when CCCS / Payplan would do just as well if not better) but were a Claims Management Company (aka Cartel / Cancelyourloan etc). I think you need to differentiate between those types of business.

Ame
xx

[Zazen.Warrior]

Re: debt handling firms

These types of companies don't do anything you cannot do for yourself given some time and effort and for very little personal outlay.

I can never understand why people use them; they charge a percentage of the alleged debt up front for demonstrating it is unenforceable, that is how they make their profits.

Parasites really.

[LuggerBugs]

Re: debt handling firms

Am I allowed a little sarcasm when this is the poor guy's first post?

Ach, of course I am...

[Guest]

Re: debt handling firms

Hi Peter, welcome to Beagles

Which post do you mean? ~~~ Consumer Credit Agreements - A Guide ~~~~ inc. Letters - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum that one or another ?

Precisely.

The arguments you have had previously with PT are between the two of you and we would be grateful if they could not encroach on here, and we can start afresh. LB have never encouraged unecessary debt avoidance, and as shown by the guidance posted by Curly (linked above) you can see our general stance.

Bye Buy Credit I don't believe were a debt management company (by this I think more of people like Churchwood, Greg Penn and Kensington etc. who run DMPs for people and charge exhorbitant fees for doing so when CCCS / Payplan would do just as well if not better) but were a Claims Management Company (aka Cartel / Cancelyourloan etc). I think you need to differentiate between those types of business.

Ame
xx

Hi not a DMC a CMC, there you are i have learned someting already

Loved the cartoon laughed so much had to tighten my belt to stop my sides from splitting.

Seriously though what may be obvious to an obvious smarty pants like your self may not be to others.

Not the rapturous welcome i would have liked but hey.

Peter

[TUTTSI]

Re: debt handling firms

Hi Peter

Welcome to LB, although we have met before on CCS.

As you know I am very keen to see the back of CMC's but whilst the MOJ hand out these authorisations willy nilly there is not much hope.

Tuttsi

[Guest]

Re: debt handling firms

These types of companies don't do anything you cannot do for yourself given some time and effort and for very little personal outlay.

I can never understand why people use them; they charge a percentage of the alleged debt up front for demonstrating it is unenforceable, that is how they make their profits.

Parasites really.

Hi
Yes , problem is a lot of people who use these forums don’t really have the capability to understand fully what is being discussed, then you run the risk of giving advice that you know the poster will not be capable of presenting against a hostile creditor.
I find this frustrating, really I like to specialise in agreements that are unenforceable due to errors in the Tcc, APR, repayment calculations
This is a tried and tested route and has the advantage that there is no interpretation of the legislation needed you can prove your case with a pocket calculator.
Bit you do need to understand what TCC is .
I have declined to advise on a number of agreements that were clearly unenforceable, because I could see that the person would not be able to present the case to a possibly hostile judge.
The point I am trying to make in my clumsy way is that we must not just tell people to take a paticular course of action blindly and leave them to it I believe that if we are to truly help the only way is through discussion, mutual education and on going support.
Peter

[Guest]

Re: debt handling firms

Hi Peter

Welcome to LB, although we have met before on CCS.

As you know I am very keen to see the back of CMC's but whilst the MOJ hand out these authorisations willy nilly there is not much hope.

Tuttsi

Hi Tutsi

Yes i remember hope you are well.

Yes fortunately the MOJ are also closing a lot of these down as in the case of Bye Buy Credit, usually howevver their is a number of unfortunate customers left in the wake who have paid out advance fees.

I have seen a number of agrement s that have been judged to be unenforceable by this and other companies and really there was IMO ,no way a court would fail to enforce.They must know this yet they still take the money.

Makes me a tad annoyed

Peter

[Amethyst]

Re: debt handling firms

Peter, Have a read about this forum (Debt Management and Claims Management Companies) which should give you an idea how we stand on this industry. There have been discussions at length, especially regarding Mr Wright and Mr Rankine and co which you will probably find of interest. Of course the upfront fee charging companies take the money enforceable or not, they are preying on vulnerable peoples fantasies, then a lot of the time, vanishing into the night with pockets of cash leaving those people to pick up the peices of previously manageable debts now being defaulted and facing court action over.

There is a massive difference between that, and assisting people who have unscrupulous companies claiming against individuals with excessive charges and interest rates, misstated insurances and hidden commission, defend themselves, and in many cases their homes, over debts which has the agreements been fair and sound, would already have been repaid.

You are very knowledgeable on the CCA and I have read a lot of your work and am pleased you are here to help folks

Ame
xxx

[BillandBen]

Re: debt handling firms

Hi
Yes , problem is a lot of people who use these forums don’t really have the capability to understand fully what is being discussed,

I find this a little patronising - how do you know unless you try?

The point I am trying to make in my clumsy way is that we must not just tell people to take a paticular course of action blindly and leave them to it I believe that if we are to truly help the only way is through discussion, mutual education and on going support.
Peter

I'm not aware on any of the forums I help on that people are just left to follow things blindly?

[Guest]

Re: debt handling firms

I'm not aware on any of the forums I help on that people are just left to follow things blindly?

Hi Peter

Welcome to LB, although we have met before on CCS.

As you know I am very keen to see the back of CMC's but whilst the MOJ hand out these authorisations willy nilly there is not much hope.

Tuttsi

Hi Tutsi

Yes i remember hope you are well.

Yes fortunately the MOJ are also closing a lot of these down as in the case of Bye Buy Credit, usually howevver their is a number of unfortunate customers left in the wake who have paid out advance fees.

I have seen a number of agrement s that have been judged to be unenforceable by this and other companies and really there was IMO ,no way a court would fail to enforce.They must know this yet they still take the money.

Makes me a tad annoyed

Peter
Hi
Dont mean to be patronising ,people have different abilities thats all.

Do i sense hostility here already

Peter

[BillandBen]

Re: debt handling firms

No, no hostility on my part. I'm willing to learn and before you ask I'm not from CAG either.

I just think that everyone has a starting point. I never knew anything about how to help myself a year ago and now I do. If you were talking to the year ago me now, rather than the today, me I wouldn't have had a scooby do as to where to start.

Someone however listened to my rambling first post and pointed me in the right direction. They didn't give me all the answers, but told me where to find them, educate myself and start to fight back.

What I'm trying to say is that I came from a very, very low point and at the time probably wouldn't have had the abilities that you describe as needed, but without that one person taking the time to read and help and everyone that has helped me since, I shudder to think where I would be now.

By helping others it's my way of giving back what others have given me.

[Guest]

Re: debt handling firms

No, no hostility on my part. I'm willing to learn and before you ask I'm not from CAG either.

I just think that everyone has a starting point. I never knew anything about how to help myself a year ago and now I do. If you were talking to the year ago me now, rather than the today, me I wouldn't have had a scooby do as to where to start.

Someone however listened to my rambling first post and pointed me in the right direction. They didn't give me all the answers, but told me where to find them, educate myself and start to fight back.

What I'm trying to say is that I came from a very, very low point and at the time probably wouldn't have had the abilities that you describe as needed, but without that one person taking the time to read and help and everyone that has helped me since, I shudder to think where I would be now.

By helping others it's my way of giving back what others have given me.

Hi

Perfect discription of how i think it should be done
Peter

[TUTTSI]

Re: debt handling firms

Thanks Peter,

I am well and still fighting peeps corner's with the CMC's.

Kerobo is just one CMC that was recently suspended and now they are authorised again, leaving loads of peeps trying get through to them and cannot. It is a complete mess tbvh.

Tuttsi

Hi Tutsi

Yes i remember hope you are well.

Yes fortunately the MOJ are also closing a lot of these down as in the case of Bye Buy Credit, usually howevver their is a number of unfortunate customers left in the wake who have paid out advance fees.

I have seen a number of agrement s that have been judged to be unenforceable by this and other companies and really there was IMO ,no way a court would fail to enforce.They must know this yet they still take the money.

Makes me a tad annoyed

Peter

[LuggerBugs]

Re: debt handling firms

Not the rapturous welcome i would have liked but hey.

Peter

Hardly surprising really, given that you have seen fit to vent your spleen elsewhere, for reasons known only to yourself. I do hope that you will be able to contain youself while you are here, however.

Having been unable to take your temper out on your target in CAG, you must admit my scepticism in regards to your reasons for joining us might have a little merit when I see this personal attack by you, posted recently on a highly respected Industry forum...

Hi

I am afraid I agree. I used to be a contributor to CAG in the earlier years and at that point it was pretty much a discussion forum ,it was possible to glean bits of information and a lot of users found it very helpful. At that point I do not believe it offered advice as such it was as I say a discussion group.

Now however the site has been taken over by so called "Legal experts", Some of which as you say even claim to be solicitors.

I am unsure of the motivation of these people, one are two are I believe involved in the business, perhaps it is in there interest to perpetuate the myth. More likely these are people who are bathing in the praise from the people they are" helping "and the status that they lack in their real life

Here is very little discussion now one of these luminaries will give information on why a particular agreement is unenforceable and every one else just agrees and thinks they don’t have to honour there commitments to the creditor.

I have been excluded from that site now simply because I challenged some of the assertions made there.

In my day job I have seen many people who have come into our office and asked us to intervene with lenders, they have followed advice given on the CAG site and ended up with a CCJ.

The problem is that these forums can be very attractive to people who are in financial difficulties ,offering a quick fix. The idea is introduced that the agreement they have is unenforceable so they do not have to pay at all.

When this advice comes from someone purporting to be a solicitor ,many take it to be true ,and basically stop paying their debts.
By the time they find out it is all nonsense they have lost the window of opportunity to negotiate with the creditor or make alternative payment agreements.

And here...

Hi
One of the main offenders has the screen name PT257.
Currently he is on the Egg thread of the forum on the legal issues section.

There he is advising people not to pay there egg credit card agreements pending a "Test Case" he is involved in on June the 4th.
I belive he is employed by one of the debt cancelling firms.

This particular thread has created no end of problems for us with people following the advice and then coming to us when the creditors enforce.

Needles to say I can find no record of any such hearing.

The thread is called " Egg agreements and what I think is wrong with them"

I have complained to the site and tried to post contrary arguments on thread but they are moderated and just do not appear.

P

Perhaps your true thoughts regarding the existence of forums such as this and CAG, have been plainly enough spelled out, both in your first post here, and in your rant on Credit Today, to explain why I am a little concerned about your true intentions?