ppi reclaim and sold debt

[india]

can anyone help

I tried claiming charges of over 1000 from monument earlier this year and so far have got nothing, so am taking it to court.
I then tried claiming the PPI payments due to being mis sold. They wrote and told me i agreed to the PPi during the telephone application. I wrote back saying i didnt and that could they therefore supply the recording of the conversation. They have now respnded saying that they cannot find it due to technical problems)!!!
They also stated trhat they dont offer PPI but its optional payment break plan, and is not insurance and not subject to the GISC private code.
Anyway they are saying as a gesture of goodwill they are prepared to refund 127 of these payments to the account, which is the last 12 months of payments.
They then say that i should also note that the debt was sold to Lowell group on 28th december and any queries should be referred to them!!!!!!
Can they sell a debt that is currently the subject of legal action (i have already sent the letter before action for the reclaim of charges) ??? It seems to me that they knew i was taking them to court for charges and also that i was recliming the PPi payments, so they got rid of the debt as quick as possible.


What should i do?????

thanks

[tifo]

Re: ppi reclaim and sold debt

my own personal experience shows that any refund will go to the debt agency to clear the debt and any remaining amount will be paid to you.

i sent about 10 of these claims to the Ombudsman and they said the same thing. The fact that it is in dispute does not matter to them, even the fact that you may have paid the debt still does not matter or that the agency cannot supply an agreement. They will allow the refund to go to the debt agency.

the alternative that the bank has stated will be to buy the debt back, apply the refund and sell it back to the same agency. Then you can't argue.

[thephoenix]

Re: ppi reclaim and sold debt

as tifo said, they will pass the debt regardless

When did you send the LBA exactly? you say the debt is subject to legal action, yet no claim has been raised with the courts.

it doesn't matter who owns the debt, if the charges were applied by the original creditor then it's then you take to court.

A letter of dispute and pass back will be required for the DCA.

As for the PPI, do you have the original agreements that show the principle loan and PPI??????

[tifo]

Re: ppi reclaim and sold debt

the only way, i have been told, to receive your claim through the court is to raise a claim against both the bank and DCA and use the arguments of set-off and cross-claims to ask for payment to come to you. When in litigation, a DCA won't be able to sell a debt back to the bank and the bank won't be able to buy a debt in litigation.

as i understand it, to have a right of set off against an amount, there must be money owing to the creditor. As you don't owe the bank any money now, they do not have this right anymore. To receive this money which is part of a claim between you and the bank only, the DCA must have a cross claim to your claim, as they are a third party in this. In a cross claim they would have to show why they should receive the money. It therefore becomes a 3-way claim.

[Dougal16T]

Re: ppi reclaim and sold debt

Good morning all,

Just reading these posts about PPI reclaims...it is VERY important to remember this:

The original creditor sold your account 'lock stock and barrel' to the DCA or collection company, and for that the original creditor received a sum of money agreeable to both parties (the original creditor and the DCA etc).

Now then - any claim you have for PPI is against the original creditor only - they took the PPi from you. The original creditor does not have the right to send your money (the PPI reclaim) to the DCA or anyone else they choose. This is an act of Theft, pure and simple.

I strongly recommend a read of the Fraud Act 2006. In 3 of my PPi reclaims the original creditor has 'tried it on' with me in all manner of ways...until I wrote to them and informed them that by sending the PPI reclaim to the DCA etc - they would be committing an act of Theft. I left them in no doubt as to what I would do, and my letter to GE Money says:

First National Tricity Finance
GE Capital Bank Ltd
PO Box 700
Leeds
LS99 2BD


For the personal attention of Carol Reynolds

First Class Recorded delivery June 27th 2008


Dear Miss McKean,

Re: First National Account number XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX
Your ref: XXXXXX

I am writing in response to your letter dated 19th June 2008 with regards the insurance sold with my store card. Your reference is XXXXXX.

I do not accept that your decision is correct or within the terms of current legislation.

Your fourth paragraph is not relevant in this case as the date of the Insurance is irrelevant when considering whether it was mis-sold.

I quote from your letter dated 22/5:

‘...I can confirm payment protection Insurance.....was added on 2nd April 1992, when the account was opened.’

I note that you are unable to provide a copy of my original agreement, and in that event you are in breach of the CCA1974, and will have committed an offence after 30 days from 9th June 2008, the date of my request for this copy.

You have still not answered the question in my letter of 9th June ...... ‘I see that the policy was added to my account – but on whose authority? ‘

In any event when I was first disabled in 2000 and you were aware of my financial difficulties due to this you neglected to inform me that I could claim under the terms of this insurance, in other words you failed to disclose information which was essential to the contract between us.

Matters have now taken a more serious turn, because as you are unable/unwilling to inform me who gave authority for this insurance to be deducted, an offence has been committed under The Fraud Act 2006 .

(The appropriate sections read):

Section 3. makes it an offence to commit fraud by failing to disclose information to another person where there is a legal duty to disclose the information. A legal duty to disclose information may include duties under oral contracts as well as written contracts. This has been expanded to include ‘even if there has been no request for the information’
The concept of "legal duty" is explained in the Law Commission's Report on Fraud, which said at paragraphs 7.28 and 7.29:
"7.28 ..Such a duty may derive from statute (such as the provisions governing company prospectuses), from the fact that the transaction in question is one of the utmost good faith (such as a contract of insurance), from the express or implied terms of a contract, from the custom of a particular trade or market, or from the existence of a fiduciary relationship between the parties (such as that of agent and principal).
7.29 For this purpose there is a legal duty to disclose information not only if the defendant's failure to disclose it gives the victim a cause of action for damages, but also if the law gives the victim a right to set aside any change in his or her legal position to which he or she may consent as a result of the non-disclosure. For example, a person in a fiduciary position has a duty to disclose material information when entering into a contract with his or her beneficiary, in the sense that a failure to make such disclosure will entitle the beneficiary to rescind the contract and to reclaim any property transferred under it."

Section 12 repeats the effect of section 18 of the Theft Act 1968. It provides that if persons who have a specified corporate role are party to the commission of an offence under the Act by their body corporate, they will be liable to be charged for the offence as well as the corporation. By virtue of subsection (2)(a) and (b) this offence applies to directors, managers, secretaries and other similar officers of companies and other bodies corporate. Subsection (3) provides that if the body corporate charged with an offence is managed by its members the members involved in management can be prosecuted too.
I suggest you seek legal advice immediately. I am going to wait 14 days from the date of this letter, and if I have not heard from you in a positive vein by that date I will (a) insitute proceedings for recovery of this amount (This totals £366.41 of which £104.71 is the sum of the interest) together with costs, but I will also visit my local Police station and complete a s.9 statement and file a formal complaint concerning the commission of this Criminal offence.

I await your response.


Yours faithfully,


Now...all I can say is that they sent me a full refund on receipt of this letter!

'The proof of the pudding (as my Gran used to say) is in the eating'

Whilst Consumer Credit Law is good, it lacks the teeth that we as Consumers need to get back our wrongly taken or withheld money. The system I have used works - because the Law in the Fraud Act 2006 is on my side!


Best wishes to everyone
Dougal

[Paule]

Re: ppi reclaim and sold debt

Dougal

Now...all I can say is that they sent me a full refund on receipt of this letter!

Has this worked with ALL your PPI claims.

I only ask because on some accounts GE are just paying back any PPI they sold as they were fined for mis selling

I got my PPI back from them with just one letter requesting it back as i believed they had mis sold it.
I didnt quote any laws, acts etc as you have done

Just dont want you getting your hopes up thats all

PKea

[Dougal16T]

Re: ppi reclaim and sold debt

Hello Pkea

That is a nice thought......as an ex-pc myself I am obliged for your comments!

I did try the 'you've been fined by the FSA already', but they told me to put my claim where the monkey puts his nuts! (where does the monkey put his nuts?? - answers on a postcard.)

To be sensible and answer the question : It works on ALL claims, PPI or otherwise, if they want to be difficult then I can get difficult too, and believe me I haven't even started to do so yet!!

Best wishes to you all
Dougal

[Karada_uk]

Re: ppi reclaim and sold debt

I have a similar problem. I had a Credit Card from RBS Advanta/Mint and in 20066 I started to reclaim the PPI premiums and unfair charges that had been charged.
RBS sold the debt to CapQuest and informed me that CapQuest had full legal title to the account and all matters had to be dealt with by them. RBS refused to discuss the matter further and have never replied to any letters since. CapQuest instructed HL solicitors to start a Court Action at Northampton. HL got a default judgement even though I had filed a defence and the Court had acknowledged the receipt of the defence. I had to apply to Northampton to have the Judgement set aside and have the case transferred to my local Court. In the meantime HL had applied to have the case transferred to Bradford for execution. They applied for a charging order against my property.
Finally I managed to get the case transferred to my local Court where the judgement was set aside and a new hearing arranged.
I counterclaimed against CapQuest for a refund of PPI and for the unfair charges. At the hearing the Judge ruled that under Company Law "a Company can sell the benefit of a debt but not the burden of the debt."
Therefore my claim remained against RBS. CapQuest had their claim struck out in its entirety. I am now having to take RBS to Court and they are now defending the claim saying that it is out of time under the Limitations Act. I am going to claim that as RBS refused to discuss my claim after they had sold it to CapQuest and constantly told me that CapQuest was legally responsible for the account that they deliberately mislead me and therefore Section 32 of the Limitations Act applies and the case should considered by the Court.

Does anyone know of cases that I can refer to in which Clause 32 of the limitations Act has been used successfully against a Bank that uses delaying tactics. So far it has taken nearly 4 years to get this case into Court and it still won't be heard until the middle of June 2011. I have to file a new Statement of Claim by Feb 21st so any advice would be welcome.

[Karada_uk]

Re: ppi reclaim and sold debt

As a follow-up, the Court ordered a pre-trial hearing at which I presented my case as RBS were claiming that it was out of time. The Judge agreed with me and set a Trial Date. RBS immediately offered to settle out of Court and to get CapQuest to remove all filings with the Credit Reference Agencies and to remove the Charge against my property at their expense.
Result!!