Self help DMP techniques discussion

[labman]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - going it alone

Please don't mistake me as someone with a fixed mind, I'm not. Bear in mind the version of Cashflow I'm using is pretty new to me still. I don't process hundreds of clients being a small charity.

I know exactly what you mean about the need for their to be something where people are totally in control of their own destiny. Cashflow, as you know, was introduced because too many people were producing perfectly good DMP offers using templates from the internet, but they were being rejected simply because they had no official backing.

The big problem with Cashflow I openly admit is that if you do your job as an advisor responsibly, you cannot simply just accept the IE statement from the client. This immediately defeats the point of it being self managed. It's self managed once it has been signed off, but not until.

Some people welcome this halfway house, and I actually think there's room for the CAB version, CASHflow and a fully managed DMP. I'm speaking to a client tomorrow who is keen to administer his own and is currently looking at Cashflow. I'll definitely point him at this post, and see if he'd prefer this.

Also for me there's the signing of consent forms etc... to be legally compliant which this seems to circumnavigate.

Very interesting and thought provoking.

[Latch Key Kid]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - going it alone

Please don't mistake me as someone with a fixed mind, I'm not. Bear in mind the version of Cashflow I'm using is pretty new to me still. I don't process hundreds of clients being a small charity.

I know exactly what you mean about the need for their to be something where people are totally in control of their own destiny. Cashflow, as you know, was introduced because too many people were producing perfectly good DMP offers using templates from the internet, but they were being rejected simply because they had no official backing.

The big problem with Cashflow I openly admit is that if you do your job as an advisor responsibly, you cannot simply just accept the IE statement from the client. This immediately defeats the point of it being self managed. It's self managed once it has been signed off, but not until.

Some people welcome this halfway house, and I actually think there's room for the CAB version, CASHflow and a fully managed DMP. I'm speaking to a client tomorrow who is keen to administer his own and is currently looking at Cashflow. I'll definitely point him at this post, and see if he'd prefer this.

Also for me there's the signing of consent forms etc... to be legally compliant which this seems to circumnavigate.

Very interesting and thought provoking.

Hi Labman

Good professioinal discussion.

Very, very interesting and challenging times ahead Labman, trust me.

Anyway, Im off to get down its been a long day

Catch you later

[labman]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - going it alone

Challenging in what way?

Don't actually think future changes will affect me much anyway. Plans and recent events mean there's likely to be substantial change for me in the future which will probably lead to me stopping advising for my charity, I may continue to be a trustee but that may not be feasible. It won't vanish I don't think as I've a couple of interested parties wanting to get involved, so they will probably take over advising while I move on to pastures new.

[Latch Key Kid]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - going it alone

Challenging in what way?

Don't actually think future changes will affect me much anyway. Plans and recent events mean there's likely to be substantial change for me in the future which will probably lead to me stopping advising for my charity, I may continue to be a trustee but that may not be feasible. It won't vanish I don't think as I've a couple of interested parties wanting to get involved, so they will probably take over advising while I move on to pastures new.

Hi

The debt advice sector (both free & profit making) IS currently and will be facing many challenges over the next year and beyond, funding, coping with the ever increasing demand, complexity, partnership working, existing and new initiatives, Money Advice Service (MAS) delivery etc are just a few.

There is change in the air (and anything might happen) along with our old friend....'uncertainty'

The days of complacency are well and truly over (and so are a few other things)

I cannot really comment on your situation as I dont know enough about it or how it works to be honest.

[labman]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - going it alone

Legislative changes will affect us. Funding changes won't as the charity is funded entirely 100% from my own pocket at the moment.

Small charities will never be hit too hard financially as they are essential to the debt advice sector. Demand will be outstripping supply shortly, if it isn't already (it is with mine), and without the likes of us the big players like you in CAB would never cope.

[Latch Key Kid]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - going it alone

Legislative changes will affect us. Funding changes won't as the charity is funded entirely 100% from my own pocket at the moment.

Small charities will never be hit too hard financially as they are essential to the debt advice sector. Demand will be outstripping supply shortly, if it isn't already (it is with mine), and without the likes of us the big players like you in CAB would never cope.

Hi

What legislative changes do you mean?

To be honest I am not talking about the small set ups and I wish them well.

As I have already said I dont know enough about your situation to really comment

If the CAB or any other agency would cope without your charity I could not say due to the above.

I should imagine you refer clients to the big outfits (think you have already stated this elswhere) and you use Cashflow as you have already stated so a strange comment really as it works both ways.

I am not sure what you mean by small charities not being hit hard as cuts are across the board and feed down with many going to the wall. Also CABs are independent branches some larger than others and a number are facing real problems with some closures.

A charity funded by yourself - well that will not be affected by funding cuts by its nature I suppose - not sure how this type of charity works to be honest, maybe you could enlighten me?

[Latch Key Kid]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - going it alone

Hi again Labman

Just to add

Demand has been outstripping supply for some time now and more debt advice agencies are needed not less.

I have no real issues with the small independent ones, the more the merrier really.

[Latch Key Kid]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - Reviewing your DMP

Hi

Prominent CAB branch unveils new FREE ONLINE debt help tool & assisted self help debt management...

http://mymoney.nedcab.org.uk

Hi

Very positive news on this system

New Citizens Advice FREE Online debt help tool and ASSISTED SELF HELP DEBT MANAGEMENT wins the Institute of Money Advisers (IMA) 2012 best new Initaitive Award.

http://mymoney.nedcab.org.uk/moneyadvice/ima-award.asp

http://mymoney.nedcab.org.uk/moneyadvice/dmptour.asp

http://mymoney.nedcab.org.uk/moneyadvice/

Now officially recognised.

Definitely one to watch

[Latch Key Kid]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - going it alone

Hi

CAB Self Help System now officially recognised

The New Citizens Advice FREE Online Debt Tool & Assisted Debt Management Plan System mymoneynedcab mentioned earlier in this thread wins the Institute of Money Advisers (IMA) best new initiative award 2012.

http://mymoney.nedcab.org.uk/moneyadvice/dmptour.asp

http://mymoney.nedcab.org.uk/moneyadvice/index.asp

This FREE system can be used or utilised by anyone or other agencies as long as fees are not charged

Futher development ongoing and much more to come on this I can confirm

Very interesting development indeed and worth a look along with other systems and info

Peoples own choice and decisions at the end of the day

[Crispybacon]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - going it alone

Hi Latch Key Kid

Thanks for posting that up. The more tools the merrier as far as I am concerned.

In fact, I would suggest that if you can use multiple CFS tools, and they all pretty much come up with the same payments, then this gives you more leverage as someone doing a DMP on their own over your creditors.

It would then make it very difficult for a creditor to reasonably reject a payment plan, when several CFS's have been produced by different sources all showing the same calculations and outputs.

The number of creditors I have seen 'insisting' that debtors use the creditors own 'CFS', when these documents omit important outgoings which should be included when analyzing income and expenditure. These 'omissions' then of course contribute to the overinflated monthly payment the creditor demands, which of course, the debtor cannot afford (or if they do agree to, then go on to breach the agreement).

Best
Crispy

[labman]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - going it alone

I would actually go as far as recommending people do not fill in the creditors own I&E, whatever the creditor says, and pay them religiously what it says on a proper I&E -eg- CFS, Cashflow, NEDCABS (in no particular order!) etc....

If they take you to court, I think the judge would side with the debtor in these circumstances.

Nedcabs looks very good. as with any self managed DMP it raises some questions, but they'd apply to most self managed ones, if not all to some extent.

[Latch Key Kid]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - going it alone

Hi Latch Key Kid

Thanks for posting that up. The more tools the merrier as far as I am concerned.

In fact, I would suggest that if you can use multiple CFS tools, and they all pretty much come up with the same payments, then this gives you more leverage as someone doing a DMP on their own over your creditors.

It would then make it very difficult for a creditor to reasonably reject a payment plan, when several CFS's have been produced by different sources all showing the same calculations and outputs.

The number of creditors I have seen 'insisting' that debtors use the creditors own 'CFS', when these documents omit important outgoings which should be included when analyzing income and expenditure. These 'omissions' then of course contribute to the overinflated monthly payment the creditor demands, which of course, the debtor cannot afford (or if they do agree to, then go on to breach the agreement).

Best
Crispy

Hi

Good stuff

I agree with many of your points

The OFT guidelines on expenditure figures are clear and creditors and collection agencies who do not follow, harrass or come up with nonsense self centred figures should be exposed, reported and their licences tossed in the bin if they persist.

People doing their best can only afford what they can and the whole point of the trigger figures is to help people live and pay their everyday essentials, priorities and sustain a payment plan - nothing is gained from plans failing or people falling behind with their priorities such as mortgage, rent, council tax, struggling to pay for car expenses and repairs, food, electric gas as a result of trying to maintain unrealistic non-priority payment arrangements - that is the reality of the economic situation - silly requests or demands only build up more trouble down the line along with piling more unecessary stress and worry on people and for what - to satisy some script reading self interested creditor or others with a financial interest

Common Financial Statement - people, read what it says - they have got it right in my opinion - have you read it DMCs and other so called free DMP providers (some of you have I am quite sure as you mention and promote it in your own business plans - do you use it yourself and if not then why not?

http://www.cfs.moneyadvicetrust.org/

Crispy, there are differences between some of the trigger figures with the CFS more generous overall on food / housekeeping and travel / car costs than others and then there is the even more bizarre situation with the O/R HES guidleine figures in bankruptcy - it is a crazy situation in my opinion and there should basically be one set of figures as you allude (however I accept that trigger figures cannot be an excact science with a certain anmount of flexibility needed to be built in.

The economic situation is on the floor, wage cuts and freezes, benefit and tax credit cuts, spiralling motoring & food costs thats what people are facing, its a fact, people and families need genuine independent, impartial help through this, its not rocket science.

Just my entitled to opinions

[labman]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - going it alone

Totally agree LKK - there's a first on open forum!

The problem then comes, as I'm sure I don't need to poit out to you, but it needs pointing out to other organisations, that they then say these are just 'guidelines' and not law. In the same way they say the same about being subscribed to the Lending Code.

It looks good on their literature to say it; it's great free advertising for them and shows how much they care about their customers......................................... .................................................. .................................................. .......................

until those customers get into trouble, then they're guidelines!

Call me cynical, fine, but I have good reason to be.

[Latch Key Kid]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - going it alone

Totally agree LKK - there's a first on open forum!

The problem then comes, as I'm sure I don't need to poit out to you, but it needs pointing out to other organisations, that they then say these are just 'guidelines' and not law. In the same way they say the same about being subscribed to the Lending Code.

It looks good on their literature to say it; it's great free advertising for them and shows how much they care about their customers......................................... .................................................. .................................................. .......................

until those customers get into trouble, then they're guidelines!

Call me cynical, fine, but I have good reason to be.

Hi

Absolutely right labman.

The OFT and everybody else should be screaming this off the rooftops, including those that have it in their own business plans etc, if not then what is the point of it & them all, and how can you believe anything they say?

I understand there is also consultation going on between a goverment department and reps of the fee charging companies about a proposed DMP protocol sort of thing that may be wrapped up later in the year - universal expenditure trigger figures should feature somewhere in all this you would hope.

PS - I dont think there was ever any real problem between us labman

[mrkelly333]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - going it alone

cheers.useful stuff