Self help DMP techniques discussion

[Latch Key Kid]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - Reviewing your DMP

Hi

Interesting thread first time I have really read through it.

News on Assisted Self Help Debt Management Plans imminent - early next week I hear.

The MAS might like it.

Will keep you posted

[Latch Key Kid]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - Reviewing your DMP

Hi

Prominent CAB branch unveils new FREE ONLINE debt help tool & assisted self help debt management...

http://mymoney.nedcab.org.uk

[labman]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - Reviewing your DMP

CAB have been slow to implement this. I have done five. Four have been 100% successful and the fifth was only completed today, so obviously we have not had any responses from creditors yet. I'm confident this one will also be 100% successful.

Of more relevance in a way is that if an offer is not accepted, then at present the MAT will intervene directly on your behalf. You should also, of course, be able to go back to the person who signed it off for further support. The backing of the OFT and the Lending Code make it pretty powerful.

[Latch Key Kid]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - Reviewing your DMP

CAB have been slow to implement this. I have done five. Four have been 100% successful and the fifth was only completed today, so obviously we have not had any responses from creditors yet. I'm confident this one will also be 100% successful.

Of more relevance in a way is that if an offer is not accepted, then at present the MAT will intervene directly on your behalf. You should also, of course, be able to go back to the person who signed it off for further support. The backing of the OFT and the Lending Code make it pretty powerful.

Hi labman

I think you are right that the CAB may have been slow to impliment this.

There could be a number of reasons, have you looked through the CASHFLOW evaluation reports....

Phase 1
http://www.moneyadvicetrust.org/imag...01%20FINAL.pdf


Phase 2
http://www.moneyadvicetrust.org/imag...02%20FINAL.pdf


I know the people who have put the new CAB system together http://mymoney.nedcab.org.uk have and do use Cashflow but still felt that maybe things needed taking further, for example built in advice, info, budgeting & educational also a remedy / solution tool and perhaps more ease of access for both the adviser, debtor and perhaps other support agencies.

Another issue with face to face advice and Debt Management Plans is where vulnerable people are concerned especially where current and ongoing support is involved, for example - illness, mental health issues and social services back up.

The thinking is that the new CAB system can be accessed anywhere via the internet - for example the debtors own home, GP surgery & other outreach work, other support agencies offices etc - support workers doing home visits - advisers should be able to liaise & support via the telephone and maybe even add or update clients debt management plans etc for them with their permiission.

It is also designed to combine as a learning tool and is still basically work in progress as far as I understand.

The new updated OFT guidelines as far as Debt Management Plans are concerned also are a real step in the right direction especially to those conducting their own.

In my opinion advisers, agencies and those in debt need to drive the OFT message home where creditors and debt collection agencies are concerned.

Have you had a good look through the new CAB system labman, maybe put some trial data through.

I have it on good authority that the early feedback is very positive indeed.

http://mymoney.nedcab.org.uk

[labman]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - Reviewing your DMP

I think an awful lot depends on how Cashflow is done. If an adviser takes it as it is and just e-mails an invitation, signs it off after a quick look through then leaves it to the debtor they are heading for problems.

Training and common sense dictate thi should not be done.

I've always talked in depth to the person first to find out about their situation, then sent the invitation and looked at the completed form from a well informed position. To me this not only makes common sense, but also means I'm doing my job properly. How far one goes into defining 'checking' the information depends on the person you're dealing with.

So far, all of mine have been accepted without a problem. Ease of access has not been an issue, though there are things which need to be changed -eg- the person doing the DMP needs to be able to see the adviser's comments before it is signed off - at present they can't. Again, issues like that shouldn't stop it being done effectively as I add my comments to theirs, then put them in the adviser's box at the very end. Everything then is open and transparent as it should be.

Totally agree on an editing tool - the ability to go back after one has been signed off and 'unsign it' would be handy. I haven't needed this yet, but I can envisage a situation where a mistake could be made, and at present it cannot be remedied without going through th entire process again with a different e-mail address.

[Latch Key Kid]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - Reviewing your DMP

I think an awful lot depends on how Cashflow is done. If an adviser takes it as it is and just e-mails an invitation, signs it off after a quick look through then leaves it to the debtor they are heading for problems.

Training and common sense dictate thi should not be done.

I've always talked in depth to the person first to find out about their situation, then sent the invitation and looked at the completed form from a well informed position. To me this not only makes common sense, but also means I'm doing my job properly. How far one goes into defining 'checking' the information depends on the person you're dealing with.

So far, all of mine have been accepted without a problem. Ease of access has not been an issue, though there are things which need to be changed -eg- the person doing the DMP needs to be able to see the adviser's comments before it is signed off - at present they can't. Again, issues like that shouldn't stop it being done effectively as I add my comments to theirs, then put them in the adviser's box at the very end. Everything then is open and transparent as it should be.

Totally agree on an editing tool - the ability to go back after one has been signed off and 'unsign it' would be handy. I haven't needed this yet, but I can envisage a situation where a mistake could be made, and at present it cannot be remedied without going through th entire process again with a different e-mail address.

Hi

Yes, fair comments.

Debt Management Plans have been put together by trained advisers for umpteen years without the need for e-mail invitations, adding comments and signing things off etc, but creditors have not always excactly played the game with all that goes with that ( refusing offers, making silly demands and harassment if you like)

I understand the idea of the new CAB system is to make things easier for everybody concerned while combining as an advice, information & budgeting & educational tool.

In my experience not all cases are simple and straightforward and creditors (both priority & non -priority) do not always play the game.

There are many people in debt who need much more advice and support than others often involving other support agencies.

There are many vulnerable people in the above category who also may not have any disposable income or cannot always provide full information as to their overall circumstances (eg further debts come up down the line or cannot handle a change in collection agency or department or change in income)

There are people capable of conducting their own debt management plans without the need for adviser intervention and others that cannot.

The latest OFT guidelines are quite clear about what creditors and collection agencies should be looking at with regard to offers of payment etc and have in my opinion potentially overhauled the game for the better at least and as far as Debt Management Plans are concerned and perhaps further.

The key is to make things as easy as possible for those in debt (and anyone in a supporting role) to manage them and perhaps more important actually understand their situation both with budgeting and actual advice and information etc on debt.

As good as it is, my opinion is that perhaps the Cashflow system does not go far enough and is not easy accessible taking some of the points I have made into account and maybe this is why it has not been used as to its possible full potential by some.

Debt and money advice and finance in general never stands still and seems to get ever more complex.

Mind you nothing and no - one can ever be perfect and the sands do shift from time to time.

PS - have you given the new CAB system a try yet Labman?

[labman]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - Reviewing your DMP

My issue with the CAB model is that it is impossible to decide which route is best for someone by them answering a few simple questions.

Debt solutions vary massively, and what is right for one, may not be right for another. I am not a great believer in having rigidly fixed levels of debt for moving through the various levels and types of debt solution. I am a great believer in spending time getting to really know and understand your client and their individual circumstances before recommending any particular course of action.

[Latch Key Kid]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - Reviewing your DMP

My issue with the CAB model is that it is impossible to decide which route is best for someone by them answering a few simple questions.

Debt solutions vary massively, and what is right for one, may not be right for another. I am not a great believer in having rigidly fixed levels of debt for moving through the various levels and types of debt solution. I am a great believer in spending time getting to really know and understand your client and their individual circumstances before recommending any particular course of action.

Hi

Yes, absoluteley agree, always best to get full advice if you are not sure about anything or combine the two.

I think the CAB system it is more of a introduction guide, similar in some ways to the CCCS debt remedy maybe.

Have you tried or looked at the Online Debt Management System example link here http://mymoney.nedcab.org.uk/moneyadvice/dmptour.asp

[labman]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - Reviewing your DMP

I would have thought a CFS or Cashflow would be of more use, though I really like the bit where it lets you record responses.

The thing with that is it seems to me to be reinventing the wheel. The figures given are, I suspect, the trigger figures. Given something is already in existence, admitedly still needing a bit of work, I still think those with some backing are better.

However, if someone really wants to do a DMP totally independently, tis looks a good model to use.:beagle:

[Latch Key Kid]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - Reviewing your DMP

I would have thought a CFS or Cashflow would be of more use, though I really like the bit where it lets you record responses.

The thing with that is it seems to me to be reinventing the wheel. The figures given are, I suspect, the trigger figures. Given something is already in existence, admitedly still needing a bit of work, I still think those with some backing are better.

However, if someone really wants to do a DMP totally independently, tis looks a good model to use.:beagle:

Hi

Thanks for the reply and fair points

Perhaps an attempt at improving the balance and smooth running of the wheel would be a better description and it has got backing - its a CAB

Like I have said on a couple of occasions it may have numerous applications and uses to benefit people in debt.

The advisers at the bureau involved have already started using I have been told.

I will pass on your feedback

Off out for few now

[banksaretwats]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - going it alone

Hi,

Im in a DMP with CCCS & am in the process of getting all the info together to claim/sue all the charges back. Do I keep paying the DMP while I m doing this?

Also, have you had any problems with loan companies front loading all the interest on to a loan when they hand it over to a collection company?

Thank you in anticipation, any help is greatfully recieved.

Cheers

[labman]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - going it alone

Yes and yes!:beagle:

However, if you are still in financial difficulties and especially if you are suffering financial hardship, if the companies start to be silly with you, cut your payment down, if necessary cut them from your DMP (CCCS may cancel the whole thing anyway), I wouldn't worry, you can always redo it later either through a reputable FREE debt management company, or CASHflow is brilliant. It gives you a lot of freedom in self-managing the DMP, the only real 'intrusion' is at the start where a licensed debt advisor, such as Payplan, National Debtline, CCCS, my charity - there is a list of ALL of them on the CASHflow site, as the DMP has to be signed off, and you have to be invited by a licensed person in the forst place to join it.

[Latch Key Kid]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - going it alone

Hi Banks

Along with what Labman has put, there is also the new CAB online debt resource / DMP system, its saves all your details, has guideline allowance figures to follow (if you wish) you dont have to be invited, just log in and YOU are in control with a follow up & change in circumstance facility included, its completely free for anyone, anywhere to use (see below)

http://mymoney.nedcab.org.uk/moneyadvice/

http://mymoney.nedcab.org.uk/moneyadvice/dmptour.asp (example of a completed DMP)

I understand that the new CAB system is receiving rave reviews from debt professionals and is set for the up.

Very easy to access and use with many more developments to come they tell me.

Your choice though at the end of the day (CAB also can administer CAshflow)

I can speak from experience as I use the new CAB system and I have been a registered user of Cashflow for approx 18 months now.

Again though it has to be your choice and if in any doubts always make sure you get genuine FREE independent impartial advice on all your options.

PS - nothing to stop you using the new CAB system Labman if you wish, its really good, trust me.

[labman]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - going it alone

Cheers LKK,

It's not the system I worry about, it's the fact I've had very good results with CASHflow and I don't want to use a client as a guinea pig with an unknown method.

I'd like to talk to someone who's been through that process and ask them about their experiences of it.

It is clear a vast amount of thought has gone into it. :beagle:

[Latch Key Kid]

Re: A guide to self managed DMP's - going it alone

Cheers LKK,

It's not the system I worry about, it's the fact I've had very good results with CASHflow and I don't want to use a client as a guinea pig with an unknown method.

I'd like to talk to someone who's been through that process and ask them about their experiences of it.

It is clear a vast amount of thought has gone into it. :beagle:

Hi Labman

To be fair, I can see your points, there has been a couple of minor glitches that have since been put right, but could not the same be said about any system including Cashflow especially when it first started. There was the the phase one and phase two reports for Cashflow, worth a read through and you may see what I mean.

There are also advisers who dont really rate the Cashflow system that highly as they say it has not really made the transition to full self help, maybe thats why it has not been used that much by certain agencies. depends what sort of agency you work in really. I first tried Cashflow around 18 months ago with some of the same thoughts as you have raised with the CAB system.

Contrary to what some people say there are CABs that do actually administer there own debt management plans for their clients using various systems including PG Debt & Case and have been doing so for time and memorial so they are pretty experienced people - I have been using PG Debt for over ten years and still do to this day (today included).

One of the many advantages and uses of the new CAB system is that when CAB and and other advisers have set up a Debt Management Plan by using the PG Debt system their client can have the choice of then using the new online system and running their own DMPs from then onwards (if they are confident to do so of course)

It is basically an Assisted self help debt management process, nothing really complicated for those who feel confident enough to use it of course and it has built in advice etc.

The new CAB system did seem to come out of nowhere though and I know it took many by surprise and to put it diplomatically.. maybe they are a little cautious of it, but it will not be going away and is most definitely still being developed further you can take my word on that one.

Nothing stays the same Labman with agencies having to adapt if they are to survive and if things are made better and easier for those in debt then its got to be a good thing, I hope you agree.

There are some in the CAB who have had enough and thought it was time to have their own independent system, time will tell in the long run though and people have the choice its as simple as that.

The much publicised revised guidelines on debt collection had the capacity to change things for the better as far as people in debt management plans are concerned, may be more than many people first realised.

You never know Labman, you might change your mind one day.