Help needed please - Wrong Default Date

[chrisnecca]

I'm new to the site and found it through Google, so it would be rude not to say "Hello" on my first post.

I would really like some help and advice please, I am having a nightmare with Lowell at the moment claiming I currently owe them £2592.

I will give you some background. I had taken out car finance with Blackhorse in 2004 for approximately £6000 a year later the car was stolen and the insurance paid the finance company direct (in full) or so I was lead to believe.

I then got a job abroad for around 5 years and my parents moved however I am now in the back in the UK and registered on the voters role. Since I registered on the voters role I have started getting letters from Lowell demanding I pay the money back. I have tried to contact Blackhorse but they advise me I have to deal with Lowell and Lowell are demanding proof of payment.

I have now obtained a copy of my credit reports and sure enough I have a default on the account however what is strange is it is showing a start date of 26/06/2005 and a default date of 11/12/2009 (is this allowed?).

Now the problem I have is it now 8 years old I have no paperwork or supporting documents. Can anyone here point me in the right direction or give me some advice.

(I can upload my credit file if needed)

Thanks
Chris

[labman]

Re: Help needed please - Wrong Default Date

Have you acknowledged the debt in writing or by making a payment?

Do you know when you made your last payment?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Help needed please - Wrong Default Date

Hi and welcome!

You've certainly come to the right place, Celestine, the Site Owner has beat Lowells quite a few times! :yo:

From the timescales above, it is possible that any outstanding balance (should there be one) is Statute Barred by now, if there's been no payment or written acknowledgment in 6 years (5 in Scotland).

I would be tempted to send the Lowlifes a 'prove it' letter and see what they come up with: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...9479#post59479 If they are asking for money, they should be able to prove they have the right to ask in the first place.

To obtain paperwork, you could try sending a SAR to the finance company (not Lowell because they are just debt purchasers and wouldn't have the data), however, some companies will argue they don't have records older than 6 years.

Even without proof of payment, it sounds like any outstanding amount is SBd by now, so the Lowlifes won't be able to do much. :thumb:

[chrisnecca]

Re: Help needed please - Wrong Default Date

Have you acknowledged the debt in writing or by making a payment?

Do you know when you made your last payment?

I don't know exactly when the insurance company paid Blackhorse direct no and I have no paperwork as it is that old.

I did contact Lowell to advise them that they are in the wrong (on the phone) and I also mentioned that it looked as if the default and start date were wrong and it looked like conditions had been broken but they simply replied "send us the proof it was paid".

I then got credit expert involved and surprisingly they were very helpful however I had an email of them stating the below.

"Dear Mr Measor

*Lowell Portfolio I Ltd Account started 23/06/2005

I have received a reply to the query we raised on your behalf.

Lowell Portfolio I Ltd confirm they cannot amend/delete the entry at this time. They have asked that you contact them directly using the contact details below.

They have provided us with the following information:

?We have queried this account with Blackhorse and they have advised that the payment they received from insurance did not cover the full balance owed and the customer was aware that their was a short fall. Therefore the balance owed is legitimate.?

I cannot change this information without their authorisation.

Their contact details are:

Lowell Portfolio I Ltd,
Lowell Financial Ltd,
PO Box 172,
Leeds,
LS11 9WS

Tel: 08448444716

Email: post@lowellgroup.co.uk

You may want to provide documents to the company directly to support your comments as this can help them to resolve your dispute.

Please be assured that should the company send us any further instructions regarding this matter, we will act upon them accordingly.

I am deleting the following Notice of Dispute from this information:

"The consumer has disputed the accuracy of this entry and we have therefore asked the provider to investigate it. Given that this data is disputed, please take care if making an assessment of any kind that may include this data."

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Help needed please - Wrong Default Date

There are two issues here: one is the default on your credit file, the other are their demands for payment. Presumably if the account was 'started' with Lowell in 2005, that's when it got sold to them, which would make it well and truly Statute Barred. :whoo:

Even if the insurance payment did not cover the full balance, it's still SBd, and the default should have been recorded when they sold the account to Lowell, who are debt purchasers, not lenders, so the account would have already been defaulted when it was sold to them, and if that was in 2005, it should have been defaulted at that time, and the default should have dropped off by now. I would write to Lowell saying exactly that, regardless of whether there was an outstanding balance, whatever balance there was is now SBd AND it should have been defaulted in 2005, not in 2005. :nod:

The OFT guidance states defaults should be recorded between 3 and 6 months after the first missed payment, or, in this case, after the allegedly incomplete payment left an oustanding balance. There is no reason why they should have waited 4 years! :rant:

[chrisnecca]

Re: Help needed please - Wrong Default Date

Hi and welcome!

You've certainly come to the right place, Celestine, the Site Owner has beat Lowells quite a few times! :yo:

From the timescales above, it is possible that any outstanding balance (should there be one) is Statute Barred by now, if there's been no payment or written acknowledgment in 6 years (5 in Scotland).

I would be tempted to send the Lowlifes a 'prove it' letter and see what they come up with: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...9479#post59479 If they are asking for money, they should be able to prove they have the right to ask in the first place.

To obtain paperwork, you could try sending a SAR to the finance company (not Lowell because they are just debt purchasers and wouldn't have the data), however, some companies will argue they don't have records older than 6 years.

Even without proof of payment, it sounds like any outstanding amount is SBd by now, so the Lowlifes won't be able to do much. :thumb:

Hi Flamingparrot,

I did question the fact the the start date said 2005 to credit expert but the lady said it goes on the actual default date so it got me rather confused.

The prove it letter sounds like a good start and I don't believe the credit company has anything on record because I asked them if I could have copys of the agreement and the advisor said none where available.

Another point that may be helpful is when I got back into the UK I got another car through blackhorse finance and, wouldn't I have just got refused if I was a bad customer or owed money? and that one is showing as satisfied on my credit history.

Anyway I can prove the default date that is on the credit report is wrong ?

[ncf355]

Re: Help needed please - Wrong Default Date

There are two issues here: one is the default on your credit file, the other are their demands for payment. Presumably if the account was 'started' with Lowell in 2005, that's when it got sold to them, which would make it well and truly Statute Barred. :whoo:

Even if the insurance payment did not cover the full balance, it's still SBd, and the default should have been recorded when they sold the account to Lowell, who are debt purchasers, not lenders, so the account would have already been defaulted when it was sold to them, and if that was in 2005, it should have been defaulted at that time, and the default should have dropped off by now. I would write to Lowell saying exactly that, regardless of whether there was an outstanding balance, whatever balance there was is now SBd AND it should have been defaulted in 2005, not in 2005. :nod:

The OFT guidance states defaults should be recorded between 3 and 6 months after the first missed payment, or, in this case, after the allegedly incomplete payment left an oustanding balance. There is no reason why they should have waited 4 years! :rant:

Just a check here (as OFT may have commented on this as well) but do you mean ICO rather than OFT?

[ncf355]

Re: Help needed please - Wrong Default Date

Another point is how much is the default registered for?

You need to try and get paperwork to find out if when the insurance company paid the claim to them, whether they made allowance for early repayment in their calculations (such as deducting interest charges)

In one of my agreements it actually stated if it was a write off, the insurance co's payout would be recognised as full settlement - would be interesting to get the agreement

Another point of the ICO is that they must be able to show evidence of the balance of any default reported - if they cant show you the original agreement along with transaction data (original payment, then payments made by you to the account) how can they prove the amount recorded is correct?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Help needed please - Wrong Default Date

Just a check here (as OFT may have commented on this as well) but do you mean ICO rather than OFT?

I do, sorry, got them mixed up with the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines. I'm not much of a morning person and they are all guidance/guidelines rather than anything having the force of law...

[ncf355]

Re: Help needed please - Wrong Default Date

......
The OFT guidance states defaults should be recorded between 3 and 6 months after the first missed payment, or, in this case, after the allegedly incomplete payment left an oustanding balance. There is no reason why they should have waited 4 years! :rant:

I have sent a letter to one of my creditors recently - they stated in their first reply they sent me a notice of their intention to consider default within 28 days in May 2007, but it was stated as being registered by a letter from their solicitors in October 2007 as "it can take up to 6 months for an account o paas to our internal collection department"

I made clear 6 months from the last payment shoulde be the latest point at which the D should be registered and sent them a copy of the ICO tech guidance - will be interesting to see the result!

[labman]

Re: Help needed please - Wrong Default Date

Here's a Prove It letter should you wish to send one:

Dear Sir/Madam

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to [insert company name.]

I am/we are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

I/we look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully

[ncf355]

Re: Help needed please - Wrong Default Date

Oh, another point for you -

NEVER, EVER, call them (or answer when they call you) - they can sieze the opportunity to turn your words against you

Keep EVERYTHING in writing - where possible sned any letters or requests via recorded post and keep clear records of everything you send to them


(I know you have already, but make that the LAST time)

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Help needed please - Wrong Default Date

Oh, another point for you -

NEVER, EVER, call them (or answer when they call you) - they can sieze the opportunity to turn your words against you

Keep EVERYTHING in writing - where possible sned any letters or requests via recorded post and keep clear records of everything you send to them

(I know you have already, but make that the LAST time)

...or make false statements like saying "OK, that settles it", then they keep asking for the balance, as happened to me a few years ago, before I knew any better: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...r-settlement-( :rant: :mad2:

[chrisnecca]

Re: Help needed please - Wrong Default Date

Can't believe how helpful everyone has been on here.

I have written a letter using the above template and added that under OFT rules/procedures the alleged default should be statute barred. I will keep you updated.

How long do lowell have to get back to me?

Chris

[chrisnecca]

Re: Help needed please - Wrong Default Date

Here's a Prove It letter should you wish to send one:

Dear Sir/Madam

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to [insert company name.]

I am/we are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

I/we look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully

I sent them a letter recorded delivery and I have attached a picture of the response I have received, doesn't really move me any further forward.

Sound like they want me to ring them rather than letters, don' think that will be happening.

Also they didn't include a copy of the internal complaints procedure, they probably don't want me to read it.[IMG][/IMG]