court date yesterday for house repossession, how do i know outcome??

[FlamingParrot]

Re: court date yesterday for house repossession, how do i know outcome??

I'd go for this and NOT strip the property, to give your complaint a better chance of being heard properly. Take some photos so you can prove you DIDN'T wreck it before leaving. The pics will also show the difficulties you were suffering with the structure, and if on top of this your lender was treating you unfairly, the ombudsman will see how life has been for you.

That way, you get shot of the nightmare property, the nightmare lender, presumably the nightmare debts, and as planb says, maybe get some money in 4 months.

<phew!>

That wouldn't be relevant in this case because the OP bought the property as opposed to renting it. It's up to the landlord to ensure the property is in a habitable state but it's not up to the lender to do the same, the condition of the property is not their responsibility.

The complaint would be about the way the lender handled the mortgage up to the point of repossession, which has nothing to do with the condition of the property afterwards. The lender didn't issue possession proceedings as a result of the condition of the property and the OP is not expecting to get a penny back from the lender as would be the case when you've paid a deposit to a landlord.

[Inca]

Re: court date yesterday for house repossession, how do i know outcome??

Firstly,Laurie,check with the court that BOI did actually get a possession order,you never know,it may have been a sensible judge who thought 2k wasn't a big enough debt?
Secondly,,don't do anything daft (i know you won't)like wreck the place,,it's not worth the aggro
Thirdly..Human Rights chat really doesn't help the OP,,she wanted advice,not basically false hopes,I've watched the videos those FMOL's have posted,they don't show the ending where the eviction takes place anyway,,they buy a bit of time that's all.

[IanM]

Re: court date yesterday for house repossession, how do i know outcome??

I think maybe I will try a complaint after im discharged, who knows ah?! Thanks for all the advise will keep you posted on route i take! The silly thing is they are repossessing property for £2000
I have mortgage interest payments from governement four weekly direct to my mortgage company which is £320 towards the £565 payment I need to make, I havent been able to make the top ups hence the date has accumilated. I bought this property for £120k and in todays market with the damage, they will probably get £80k - £90k for it! So its more fool them really as I would take a £2000 debt over a £40,000 debt any day!

Why did you go bankrupt?

[CleverClogs]

Re: court date yesterday for house repossession, how do i know outcome??

You could be accused of converting* the lender's property - for what?
A few quid?
Wood laminate, duff carpets, all cut a certain way?

If the OP laid the laminate and hung the chandeliers, how could those be the lender's property?

[UnitedFront]

Re: court date yesterday for house repossession, how do i know outcome??

Human Rights arguments simply don't fit here in the context in which they have been suggested.

As to stripping things out - anything that is a 'fixture' becomes part of the land and cannot be removed. This has been held to be items such a fireplaces, recessed lighting and even stone garden statues that were heavy and part of an overall design.

The issue is how firmly items are fixed to the land and, more importantly, the purpose for which they were affixed to the land. The more damage removal does, the more likely it is to be a fixture, although in some cases something that could be removed with zero damage might be a fixture.

Slates on the roof - part of the land.
Copper pipe - part of the land.
Carpets - possibly not part of the land (but questionable).

Fridges/freezers/washing machine etc - personal property not part of the land.

Nothing I say is advice. I'm not an expert and I'm not liable for any damage caused by any use of any of my opinions or information contained therein.

[CleverClogs]

Re: court date yesterday for house repossession, how do i know outcome??

Laminate flooring is rarely secured directly (or even indirectly) to the underlying surface.

Light fittings which are plastered onto a wall would certainly be "fixtures", but expensive pendant light fittings could surely be replaced by something less expensive that could fulfil the same purpose. even if that is only a basic ceiling rose, a bit of flex and a bulb holder.

[PlanB]

Re: court date yesterday for house repossession, how do i know outcome??

As to stripping things out - anything that is a 'fixture' becomes part of the land and cannot be removed. This has been held to be items such a fireplaces, recessed lighting and even stone garden statues that were heavy and part of an overall design.

The issue is how firmly items are fixed to the land and, more importantly, the purpose for which they were affixed to the land. The more damage removal does, the more likely it is to be a fixture, although in some cases something that could be removed with zero damage might be a fixture.

Slates on the roof - part of the land.
Copper pipe - part of the land.
Carpets - possibly not part of the land (but questionable).

Fridges/freezers/washing machine etc - personal property not part of the land.

Nothing I say is advice. I'm not an expert and I'm not liable for any damage caused by any use of any of my opinions or information contained therein.

Who says recessed lighting is "part of the land" ? And how could carpets possibly be "questionably part of the land"? Perhaps you're confusing this with the difference between what is and what isn't covered under the terms of buildings and contents insurance policies.

When you sell a property you complete a Seller's Questionnaire to define exactly what is and isn't staying (carpets and garden statues are often are excluded) because the law isn't precise on this issue. I would say that at this moment in time everything in the property is still owned by the OP until the date the lender has been granted possession which will be specified in the court Order.

No one is suggesting that the OP should dismantle the house brick by brick and sell them so there's nothing left but a hole in the ground when the bailiffs call eep:

[IanM]

Re: court date yesterday for house repossession, how do i know outcome??

Copper pipe- part of the land- only as far as the stopcock inside the property, everything alse after that is questionable!

[PlanB]

Re: court date yesterday for house repossession, how do i know outcome??

Copper pipe- part of the land- only as far as the stopcock inside the property, everything alse after that is questionable!

In fact how would anyone even know what was in the property since the OP purchased it 5 years ago and says it was in dire condition then. All the improvements since have been made and paid for by the OP.

Years ago I had a tenant nick all my brass light-switches and sockets and replaced them with plastic ones and I didn't have a leg to stand on since I couldn't prove they were there in the first place. That soon taught me the lesson to have digital photos added to any inventory. In this case the bank would have absolutely no idea whether the OP chose to live their life by candle light and go outside in the rain to shower

[FlamingParrot]

Re: court date yesterday for house repossession, how do i know outcome??

No one is suggesting that the OP should dismantle the house brick by brick and sell them so there's nothing left but a hole in the ground when the bailiffs call eep:

Under the circumstances, I would! :okay:Perhaps that would teach the lenders to be less aggressive and hasty! :boom: After all it's THEIR fault that many people are in this mess in the first place! :rant: :rant:

By the sounds of it, in this case, they won't even be getting all of their money back and the OP is BR so they can't chase for 12 years for the shortfall either! :nono: A line has to be drawn somewhere: fair enough to exercise their right to repossess a property if the borrower simply doesn't pay the mortgage, but from what I've seen above, it's just a matter of £2k in this case! £2k could easily be swallowed up in estate agents commission alone so you have to ask whether there REALLY is a point to repossess!

[CleverClogs]

Re: court date yesterday for house repossession, how do i know outcome??

No one is suggesting that the OP should dismantle the house brick by brick and sell them so there's nothing left but a whole in the ground when the bailiffs call

Well, certainly not a whole hole...

How about half a hole?

[CleverClogs]

Re: court date yesterday for house repossession, how do i know outcome??

Copper pipe- part of the land- only as far as the stopcock inside the property, everything alse after that is questionable!

It could be replaced by plastic pipe.

[UnitedFront]

Re: court date yesterday for house repossession, how do i know outcome??

Who says recessed lighting is "part of the land" ? And how could carpets possibly be "questionably part of the land"? Perhaps you're confusing this with the difference between what is and what isn't covered under the terms of buildings and contents insurance policies.

When you sell a property you complete a Seller's Questionnaire to define exactly what is and isn't staying (carpets and garden statues are often are excluded) because the law isn't precise on this issue. I would say that at this moment in time everything in the property is still owned by the OP until the date the lender has been granted possession which will be specified in the court Order.

No one is suggesting that the OP should dismantle the house brick by brick and sell them so there's nothing left but a whole in the ground when the bailiffs call eep:

I didn't say that recessed lighting IS part of the land. Simply that it has, in certain circumstances, been held to be so - see the case of TSB Bank v Botham for example.

With the greatest of respect, I am not mistaken. Carpets are probably not part of the land - but in certain circumstances they can be. The reason you complete seller's questionnaires is to avoid confusion and arguments - but the law is clear that unless otherwise stated, anything that is in law a fixture 'becomes part of the land' and passes with the land.

In the Botham case, the issue was whether certain items which had been removed were or were not fixtures and therefore whether they should or should not have remained in the property at repossession.

Things that are firmly attached to the property with the intention of effecting an improvement to the property as a property rather than for enjoyment as a chattel, is a fixture and therefore part of the land. This being said, it is subject to the mortgage charge.

Just to add that, in certain circumsrances, things don't even need to be physically attached to the land to be considered in law to be fixtures.

I take your point, however, about the bank not knowing what was in the house - but stripping out all pipe, cable etc I don't think would be advisable. Some things, possibly even light switches etc if you take Botham on face value, one would probably get away with.

[PlanB]

Re: court date yesterday for house repossession, how do i know outcome??

But what would the sanction be? Would the lender sue the OP who is bankrupt for any loss in value of the property with its pipes missing compared to its value with the pipes in situ, which would be impossible to quantify considering that the house will be sold at auction for below market value in any event?

And how could the lender identify its loss if it didn't know what was there in the first place (so can't say what should still be there) since they've not seen the property for five years when it was purchased in a worse state then it is now :grin:

[UnitedFront]

Re: court date yesterday for house repossession, how do i know outcome??

No I quite agree with you that, in the circumstances, there would quite possibly be little (certainly of any value) that the lender could do; but I still think that stripping things such as pipes (without at least replacing them with cheaper plastic ones as has been suggested) that are clearly fixtures could still cause more trouble than it's worth.

I definitely take the point, though.