Sainsbury's Bank Credit Card now with DLC

[jax50]

just found this brilliant site...and do I need advice..

I took out a sainsbury's Credit Card December 2002, which I received in January 2003. I have the 'agreement' to which the new card was affixed, but there are no signatures on it and Terms include 'We will review your credit limit from time to time and tell you what it is'. In jan 2003 it was £3,000.

After a rather torrid change in circumstances I had rattled up a balance of £5,650 against an increased credit limit of £6,950 and wrote to sainsbury's to say i was struggling with the repayments. They eventually stopped the interest for one year but either side ofthis added another £2,500 in late fees, over limit feesand interest charges. They defaulted me in May 2008 and Blair, Oliver and Scott , solicitirs and debt collectors contacted me and we agreed I could pay £3 per month. In 2009 I got a letter from DLC demanding payment and threatening bailiffs, house visits, court action etc but I wrote and we've agreed £1 per month as my payment...which remains like that 3 years later with the debt still up at over £8,000.

Thing is, I'm 62 and living on a small pension supplemented by benefits, and I've dallied over this for too long because it worries me..partly because when I get my OAP in 3 years time I'm worried it will all be claimed by DLC to pay this £8,000 off, and also that I'll remain on benefits until I die. So, I want to contest it in any way I can and have it reduced or written off if possible. I have already written to DLC about both these possibilities but they rejected them.

I wrote a letter last week (I wish I'd seen this site first) telling them I wanted the 'deed of assignment', and a copy of the signed contract which validates thier claim against me. I've told them I've suspended payment until they reply, that I consider this in dispute and they are to contact me only in writing ..I didn't quote any Acts or anything other than those dealing with harrassment (OFT)..i sent the letter recorded delivery last week.

So, what is my best course of action ? Do I have any rights under CCA 74, what should I do ? Any help will be gratefully received

[Sapphire]

Re: Sainsbury's Bank Credit Card now with DLC

Bumping for you x

[legalese]

Re: Sainsbury's Bank Credit Card now with DLC

just found this brilliant site...and do I need advice..

I took out a sainsbury's Credit Card December 2002, which I received in January 2003. I have the 'agreement' to which the new card was affixed, but there are no signatures on it and Terms include 'We will review your credit limit from time to time and tell you what it is'. In jan 2003 it was £3,000.

After a rather torrid change in circumstances I had rattled up a balance of £5,650 against an increased credit limit of £6,950 and wrote to sainsbury's to say i was struggling with the repayments. They eventually stopped the interest for one year but either side ofthis added another £2,500 in late fees, over limit feesand interest charges. They defaulted me in May 2008 and Blair, Oliver and Scott , solicitirs and debt collectors contacted me and we agreed I could pay £3 per month. In 2009 I got a letter from DLC demanding payment and threatening bailiffs, house visits, court action etc but I wrote and we've agreed £1 per month as my payment...which remains like that 3 years later with the debt still up at over £8,000.

Thing is, I'm 62 and living on a small pension supplemented by benefits, and I've dallied over this for too long because it worries me..partly because when I get my OAP in 3 years time I'm worried it will all be claimed by DLC to pay this £8,000 off, and also that I'll remain on benefits until I die. So, I want to contest it in any way I can and have it reduced or written off if possible. I have already written to DLC about both these possibilities but they rejected them.

I wrote a letter last week (I wish I'd seen this site first) telling them I wanted the 'deed of assignment', and a copy of the signed contract which validates thier claim against me. I've told them I've suspended payment until they reply, that I consider this in dispute and they are to contact me only in writing ..I didn't quote any Acts or anything other than those dealing with harrassment (OFT)..i sent the letter recorded delivery last week.

So, what is my best course of action ? Do I have any rights under CCA 74, what should I do ? Any help will be gratefully received

You have done the right thing by asking for the agreement/contract that shows 2 singned signatures yours and theirs. As you have a copy with no signature showing then their is not much they can do. However, they will blacklist you as they say, thats about it. You should of added in the letter that you conditionally accept that you owe them on condition they send you the agreement signed by you both.

[jax50]

Re: Sainsbury's Bank Credit Card now with DLC

You have done the right thing by asking for the agreement/contract that shows 2 singned signatures yours and theirs. As you have a copy with no signature showing then their is not much they can do. However, they will blacklist you as they say, thats about it. You should of added in the letter that you conditionally accept that you owe them on condition they send you the agreement signed by you both.

Thank you for that..what a relief I've started on the right track. I said in my letter, which incidentally didn't give them any fixed time period to reply (but they would know this I expect) that I would recommence payments and pay any arrears if they can validate their claim and the amount. So am I ok suspending payments...Sainsbury's have already marked my credit file in default but can DLC do that too for the same debt ? Also, I have told them if they can not validate this debt I will be claiming a refund of the payments I've made, plus interest, plus my 'fees'...am I being a bit too 'clever' here ? If they haven't replied by the 31st August should I then send the CCA letter which CurleyBen posted ?

[Nic]

Re: Sainsbury's Bank Credit Card now with DLC

As far as I am aware although no expert you can notmhave 2 defaults for the same debt

[jax50]

Re: Sainsbury's Bank Credit Card now with DLC

Bumping for you x

Thank you...I so need some support with this. It seems, from what I've read on this site, that as judgements are made the 'rules' are continually changing and I wondered is there a definitive place where all the 'up to date' processes are gathered ? Not knowing the law at all, does one Judges decision then become 'law' nationally thereafter or is it on a case by case, judge by judge basis ?

[legalese]

Re: Sainsbury's Bank Credit Card now with DLC

Yes if you are not worried about your credit file being marked which would unable you or make it more difficult for you to obtain credit elsewhere then it is your right to stop all payments as there is no contract.

[dogtired]

Re: Sainsbury's Bank Credit Card now with DLC

sub with interest as almost a year with a similar dispute with same card!

[legalese]

Re: Sainsbury's Bank Credit Card now with DLC

Your main priority is to get that evidence of the signed contract, the dca you can get rid of them simple.

[Bill-K]

Re: Sainsbury's Bank Credit Card now with DLC

Hi Jax. As I understand it, judgements made in lower courts do not in themselves set 'precedents,' but they can be referred to in claims. Judgements in the higher courts are the ones that usually set precedents - but even these can be overturned by appeal. Also - just as in any 'field of combat,' strategies are constantly being changed - so what was a sure-fire method last year becomes 'old hat' this year.

I agree with Legalese, in that your liability depends on the existence of the signed agreement. Unfortunately, if the copy sent to you in response to a CCA s.77-79 request is not fully compliant, then it is still NOT proof that there is no agreement. It is usually expected that the ORIGINAL executed agreement must be made available to a court, if a debt is to be legally pursued, and I believe there have been cases where a copy of this was not supplied in response to a CCA request, but the original was eventually found when the case went to court.

I have also heard of cases where there was no original agreement produced in court, but the evidence provided by the lender (ie., payment records, correspondence, etc.) was sufficient to show that an agreement existed - even if there was no written contract to prove this. A contract can still exist, even if there is no written version of it.

So - there is no hard and fast method or central knowledge base for all this stuff. It is like a vast ocean with hidden dangers and treacherous currents. Knowing how to steer a ship is good, but a sailor's experience is what really matters. Likewise, knowing the law is important - but implementing it effectively is a totally different skill.

[jax50]

Re: Sainsbury's Bank Credit Card now with DLC

Your main priority is to get that evidence of the signed contract, the dca you can get rid of them simple.

Okay, will see what DLC come up with..just to be clear, for me, is this an agreement between me and DLC we're talking of, or is it between me and Sainsbury's Bank ? If it's the latter (which I guess it is) do DLC need to then prove they have taken over the contract from Sainsbury's and have inherited legal rights to pursue me for the full amount o/s even though they may well have only paid 3s 6d for it ? How will I know what rights DLC have, is this what I've effectively asked for already ?

[legalese]

Re: Sainsbury's Bank Credit Card now with DLC

Its between you and sainsburys bank dlc have no power unless you give it to them

[Bill-K]

Re: Sainsbury's Bank Credit Card now with DLC

I agree with legalese, but would add that DLC have power if Sainsbury's have given it to them.

There are others here who know more about this than I do, Jax, but the agreement we're talking about is the ORIGINAL agreement between you and Sainsburys (the Original Creditor - or 'OC.') If DLC are acting as collection agents for the OC, then they will not be in possession of the agreement - but should be able to produce it if they are lawfully pursuing the debt. If they have actually BOUGHT the debt from the OC (for 3/6d !!!), then they should have possession of that agreement. Either way, it should be proven to exist for the debt to be lawfully pursued.

I believe it used to be a legal requirement for the OC to directly inform the borrower that the debt had been passed to a DCA, but I'm told that this is no longer the case - BUT a 'letter of assignment' or 'deed of assignment' still needs to be properly and formally issued by the DCA before they can proceed. Unfortunately, this means that any number of Tom, Dick or Harry's can try and pursue you for a debt without the OC's knowledge or consent. But their legitimacy can be verified by contacting the OC.

There is a letter (thanks to Labman) which can be used here, which puts the ball firmly in the DCA's court, and might help:-

" This is a formal request under the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations (CPUTR) 2008.

I require your organisation to provide written confirmation that states clearly whether you currently hold an original signed Consumer Credit Agreement, or whether you do not hold an original signed Consumer Credit Agreement pertaining to myself.


For the avoidance of doubt, an original signed Consumer Credit Agreement is just that; not an application for credit and not a reconstructed or microfiched document from other sources.


Please note that until such time as a legally enforceable, original Consumer Credit Agreement can be produced and a copy sent to me by return, then this letter is not an acknowledgement of debt.


Please also note that failure to provide a direct answer to this request will be brought before the court, should you decide to ignore this letter and instruct solicitors to pursue enforcement action regardless. "

[legalese]

Re: Sainsbury's Bank Credit Card now with DLC

Another thing to take into consideration is the sale of your debt, if they have purchased your debt then you do not have a debt it is paid off.

[Bill-K]

Re: Sainsbury's Bank Credit Card now with DLC

...if they have purchased your debt then you do not have a debt it is paid off.

I've never thought of it like that, L. But surely, if a debt is purchased, then the legal right to pursue it is a part of the sale, isn't it ?