message for bluebottle

[berniel]

Re: message for bluebottle

letsa get back onto the original question

what is the legal standing of a dca who sends a letter preporting to be from the original creditor assigning the debt and a dca welcome letter in the same envelpe.
its obvious both have been typed up by the dca in question and why is the assignment is not sent by registerd post to be legally binding.

the assignment is then inafectiive if the assignment is not sent by recorded mail

There is no reason why it cannot be, it is simply to let you know that the agreement has been assigned in compliance with the act.

Doesnt matter who sent it.

Itr is not purporting to be something it isnt, why would it when either party could have sent it.

Bernie

[labman]

Re: message for bluebottle

the fact of giving a notice of assignment does not, of itself, create an assignment and that there must be an actual assignment in existence. It is the actual Assignment, not just the Section 136 notice, under which the creditor has just cause. the debtor has a legal right to see the actual assignment.

(Van Lynn Developments v Pelias Construction Co Ltd 1968 [3] All ER 824)

i am talking on ABSOLUTE ASSIGNMENTS

In this case you're not talking about the Notice of Assignment, you're talking about the actual Deed of Assignment. Yes, you can get to see this, but only by using the CPR's. It is highly unlikely you will ever get to see the actual deed otherwise.

[berniel]

Re: message for bluebottle

the fact of giving a notice of assignment does not, of itself, create an assignment and that there must be an actual assignment in existence. It is the actual Assignment, not just the Section 136 notice, under which the creditor has just cause. the debtor has a legal right to see the actual assignment.

(Van Lynn Developments v Pelias Construction Co Ltd 1968 [3] All ER 824)

Are you saying that no actual assignment took place?
Do you have any reason to think this.

Bernie

[miliitant]

Re: message for bluebottle

196 (4) Stipulates That A Notice Of Assignment Sent Through The Mail Must Be By Recorded Mail To Be Effective Any notice required or authorised by this Act to be served shall also be sufficiently served

Lets Answer That Question First

[berniel]

Re: message for bluebottle

Just had a look at Section 136, Law of Property Act 1925.

From what I have read, it gives a creditor the right to assign a debt to another party, provided the creditor gives written notice to the debtor of the assignment. This can be done by the creditor or the assignee (DCA) can forward the original Notice of Assignment or a Certified Copy of same to the debtor. If a copy is forwarded that is not a Certified Copy, it can be regarded as a forgery.

HI Can you point out the entry that says anything about sendig a notice of assignment or certified copy to the debtor

136.--(1)

Any absolute assignment by writing under the hand of the assignor (not purporting to be by way of,charge only) of any debt or other legal thing in action, of which express notice in writing has been given to the debtor, trustee or other person from whom the assignor would have been entitled to claim such debt or thing in action, is effectual in law (subject to equities having priority over the right of the assignee) to pass and transfer from the date of such notice

Nothing about a copy certified or otherwise just notice of the assignment.

Bernie

[berniel]

Re: message for bluebottle

196 (4) Stipulates That A Notice Of Assignment Sent Through The Mail Must Be By Recorded Mail To Be Effective Any notice required or authorised by this Act to be served shall also be sufficiently served

Lets Answer That Question First

Ok so lets forget about the forgery thning

The complaint is the way the notice was sent.

Bernie

[bluebottle]

Re: message for bluebottle

letsa get back onto the original question

what is the legal standing of a dca who sends a letter preporting to be from the original creditor assigning the debt and a dca welcome letter in the same envelpe.
its obvious both have been typed up by the dca in question and why is the assignment is not sent by registerd post to be legally binding.

the assignment is then inafectiive if the assignment is not sent by recorded mail

Okay. The Law of Property Act 1925 is still on the Statute Book and in force. If the EU Directive says that a notice does not have to be sent if nothing has changed, so be it. However, if things have changed, then, yes, a Notice of Assignment would be required. Under the circumstances, the debtor would need to be served with an original notice from the creditor, either directly, or by the assignee (DCA). If the assignee wants to hold the original, it is lawful to send a Certified Copy. If a Notice of Assignment is sent by a DCA to a debtor, where the law so requires, that is neither an original of that provided by the creditor or a Certified Copy, it is reasonable to suspect it is a forgery. The debtor has a right to establish whether or not a Notice of Assignment is genuine.

What I have said above is my interpretation of the law as it is written.

[berniel]

Re: message for bluebottle

Okay. The Law of Property Act 1925 is still on the Statute Book and in force. If the EU Directive says that a notice does not have to be sent if nothing has changed, so be it. However, if things have changed, then, yes, a Notice of Assignment would be required. Under the circumstances, the debtor would need to be served with an original notice from the creditor, either directly, or by the assignee (DCA). If the assignee wants to hold the original, it is lawful to send a Certified Copy. If a Notice of Assignment is sent by a DCA to a debtor, where the law so requires, that is neither an original of that provided by the creditor or a Certified Copy, it is reasonable to suspect it is a forgery. The debtor has a right to establish whether or not a Notice of Assignment is genuine.

What I have said above is my interpretation of the law as it is written.

OK

Bernie

[miliitant]

Re: message for bluebottle

The Complaint Was The Way A Dca Sends Out The Notice Of Assigment And Its Legality In Law So Where Does It Stand Then As To 196 (4) If What Ever Notice Was Sent Other Than Recorded Mail To Be A Lawful Assignment

[miliitant]

Re: message for bluebottle

ILL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE BLUBOTTLE ON WhAT HAS AND WHAT HAS NOT CHANGED

take barclaycard
the sell a debt to a dca
the account has then changed because a dca slipps up as it does not offer a credit card facility so it is no longer a running credit account

[labman]

Re: message for bluebottle

Sorry to keep harking back to them, but again the EU Directives are not silent on this topic either. They state:

It is important, however, that notice is given as soon as reasonably possible and in a way that is clearly understandable by the borrower.

[berniel]

Re: message for bluebottle

ILL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE BLUBOTTLE ON WhAT HAS AND WHAT HAS NOT CHANGED

take barclaycard
the sell a debt to a dca
the account has then changed because a dca slipps up as it does not offer a credit card facility so it is no longer a running credit account

Acccounts have to be terminated before they are sold to aDCA dont they.
Upon termination all liabilitirs under the contract become due, this is not a loan of any kind at this point.

Bernie

[miliitant]

Re: message for bluebottle

ill say it again

CAN WE PLEASE ANSWERT MY QUESTION IN POST 24 ON 196 (4) AND SENDING OUT A NOTICE OF ASSIGNMENT BY REGISTERED POST TO BE A LAWFUL ASSIGNMENT

THANK YOU

[bluebottle]

Re: message for bluebottle

The Complaint Was The Way A Dca Sends Out The Notice Of Assigment And Its Legality In Law So Where Does It Stand Then As To 196 (4) If What Ever Notice Was Sent Other Than Recorded Mail To Be A Lawful Assignment

Have got the Law of Property Act 1925 open as a PDF. Section 196(4) states that any notice required to be served under the Act must be sent by Registered Post (Special Delivery) and is regarded as delivered within the period normally allowed by the postal operator for delivery of a Registered Post (Special Delivery) Letter.

If a DCA sent out a Notice of Assignment by Recorded Delivery, as opposed to Special Delivery, it could be argued that the Notice was not served properly.

With regard to a Credit Card Debt, assuming the card issuer has stopped the card from being used, the amount the debtor owes is a straightforward debt. So the usual rules of debt collection would apply. In my experience, credit card issuers usually block a card to prevent it from being used before involving DCAs. I have never known a credit card issuer assign a debt to a DCA whilst a credit card is still active.

The way the EU Directive appears to operate is as in the examples below -

A creditor has a £1000 debt which they assign to a DCA. The debtor has not made any payments to reduce it. Under the Directive, the creditor doesn't have to provide the debtor with a Notice of Assignment.

A creditor has a £1000 debt which they assign to a DCA. The debtor has made payments totalling £150 to try and clear the debt and is continuing to make payments. Under the Directive, the creditor has to provide a Notice of Assignment to the debtor or the DCA, if they follow correct legal procedures, has to provide the original Notice of Assignment or a Certified Copy.

In my experience, where a document is required for some legal purpose, it must either be the original or a Certified Copy if it is to have any force in law.

[miliitant]

Re: message for bluebottle

it must either be the original or a Certified Copy if it is to have any force in law.

totally agree

its the same with reconstructed agreements (carey judgement)

so with reference 196 (4) lop 1925

unless the creditor (dca) can prove the notice of assignment was sent by registered post then the assignment is ineffectual in law and a perfect defense to any claim by a dca