Guess who? Yep, Lowell (and friends)

[angel.islington]

Hello, first post

For nearly two years I have been ignoring letters from Lowell/Red/Hamptons Legal/Bryan Carter/Fredrickson and maybe some others I have forgotten . It relates to a disputed Vodaphone debt and is for less than £100.

A few weeks ago I decided to send Lowell a prove it letter as I was getting annoyed at their threats. They replied by providing me with an amount, a phone number it related to and some dates. This was all on Lowell headed paper, not Vodaphone statements. As far as I am concerned this is no proof It also suggested I had 14 days to make payment arragements. TWO days later I get another letter from Red.

I have had various advice, send a SAR, ask for the deed of assignment etc. As you guys seem very experienced in dealing with this bunch I thought I would ask for your advice. I am more than willing to make their life as difficult as possible in terms of complaining to the OFT, trading standards etc however I'm not actually sure what to say to them. I'm also wanting to make a complaint to the relevant authority regarding their threats. They have made a number of threats to 'possibly' take legal action against me, always with a timescale which they have no intention of following through on. If you threaten to take me to court after 14 days but over 18 month later you've not done it then you were never intending to. I don't take kindly to these kinds of threats.

I have not spoken to them on the phone and I have never acknowledged owing them anything. Ignoring them obviously hasn't made it go away so what's the next step?

Thanks for any help in advance.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Guess who? Yep, Lowell (and friends)

Hello, first post

For nearly two years I have been ignoring letters from Lowell/Red/Hamptons Legal/Bryan Carter/Fredrickson and maybe some others I have forgotten . It relates to a disputed Vodaphone debt and is for less than £100.

A few weeks ago I decided to send Lowell a prove it letter as I was getting annoyed at their threats. They replied by providing me with an amount, a phone number it related to and some dates. This was all on Lowell headed paper, not Vodaphone statements. As far as I am concerned this is no proof It also suggested I had 14 days to make payment arragements. TWO days later I get another letter from Red.

I have had various advice, send a SAR, ask for the deed of assignment etc. As you guys seem very experienced in dealing with this bunch I thought I would ask for your advice. I am more than willing to make their life as difficult as possible in terms of complaining to the OFT, trading standards etc however I'm not actually sure what to say to them. I'm also wanting to make a complaint to the relevant authority regarding their threats. They have made a number of threats to 'possibly' take legal action against me, always with a timescale which they have no intention of following through on. If you threaten to take me to court after 14 days but over 18 month later you've not done it then you were never intending to. I don't take kindly to these kinds of threats.

I have not spoken to them on the phone and I have never acknowledged owing them anything. Ignoring them obviously hasn't made it go away so what's the next step?

Thanks for any help in advance.

Welcome, you have come to the right place...we all hate the Lowell Group!!!

You state that the Lowell Group are chasing a telecom purported debt (Vodaphone) of £100.

Have you requested copies of your credit reference agencies credit file?
The above would provide some information about the alleged debt.

It is always best to make a SAR to the original creditor;
you need to gather information if you do not already possess same.

Lowell are chasing many statute barred telecom debts at the moment.
But of course, they do buy a mixed bag of debt past its sell by date...even they are not sure what they are buying, other than it's very cheap!

[labman]

Re: Guess who? Yep, Lowell (and friends)

Lowells, Red and Hamptons are all the same company. Do you actually remember having any phone to which this debt may apply?

You have sent a Prove It Letter, and need to write and tell them that you are not happy with the response. I would put together a strong letter to them using the OFT link below. I'd also report them to the OFT for breaching the guidelines.

Until they prove the debt to your satisfaction, you really have very little to say to them. You could send a SAR, but at this stage I'd be inclined to save my £10.

There is no point in asking for the Deed of Assignment as you will only ever get that by using the CPR's and court procedures which you won't want to do for a small debt.

As regards the threat of legal action, read the latest debt Collection Guidelines from the OFT. They will give you more than enough ammunition to put together a complaint.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/bus.../OFT664Rev.pdf

[bluebottle]

Re: Guess who? Yep, Lowell (and friends)

Hello Angel Islington,

As Angry Cat has said above, we are all paid-up members of the "We Hate The Lowell Group Club".

The advice Angry Cat has given you is, as always, spot on. If I may add to Angry Cat's advice, Lowell have failed to send you proof of a lawful debt and are making threats which, on the face of it, are unwarranted. The letter Lowells sent you is insufficient evidence of a lawful debt and they must supply you with documentary evidence from Vodafone themselves. If they do not, there is no case to answer. Be aware, however, that some firms will lie to save their own backsides. Don't be taken in by any bull or waffle from Lowells, RED or Vodafone.

If you have not already done so, go to the OFT website and download an up to date copy of their Debt Collection Guidelines. This is a very useful weapon to beat DCAs and creditors over the head with (wrapped around an iron bar - only joking!). It is a good idea to quote from it in correspondence with creditors and DCAs or if they phone you. If they give you any bull that the Guidelines say otherwise, I find that saying -

"Oh really? That's funny, because I've got an up to date copy of the Guidelines in front of me. Would you like me to read to you what it actually says about so-and-so?"

normally shuts them up or makes them tread very carefully. Knowing that you can catch them out makes them nervous.

With regard to the legality of what Lowell Group is doing in your case, I have listed potential offences they are committing under the Criminal Law -

Section 20, Theft Act 1968 (Blackmail)[Making Unwarranted Threats with Menaces]
Section 2, Fraud Act 2006 (Fraud by False Misrepresentation)[Claiming you owe money that, potentially, you do not]
Section 2, Protection from Harassment Act 1997 (Harassment) [The repeated demands and threats Lowells are making and Vodafone for putting them up to it]
Data Protection Act 1998 (Potential breaches of Data Protection Act)

Following Angry Cat's advice, the first priority is to obtain an up to date copy of your credit file and serve an SAR on Vodafone under Section 7, Data Protection Act 1998, requesting everything they have on you, including a print-out of every payment you have made to them. If you were on a contract, ask for copies of EVERY bill they have sent you. Once you have copies of your credit file and SAR from Vodafone, get in touch on this thread before taking any further steps.

Bluebottle

[angel.islington]

Re: Guess who? Yep, Lowell (and friends)

Wow. What an amazing, fast, response. Thank you all.

Firstly, I am not intimidated by them. I can see through them from a mile away. I'm aware that they all the same company and I have, on more that one occasion now, laughed at their toilet paper. I am, however, now annoyed by nearly two years of badgering me. I have had about 15 letters from them now.

To answer your questions, I did have an account with Vodaphone, which obviously I closed at the time. It's not six years ago so it's not Statute Barred or even close. I recall having a dispute with Vodaphone at the time about how much my final payment was. I don't believe they ever sent me any letters telling me they were sending the dispute onto DCA's so I presumed they agreed with me and the matter was closed. Then a couple of years later I get the first letter from Lowell.

I haven't looked at my Experian file for a while, so that would be a good start. I presume I can get this for nominal fee?

I have spoken to a couple of free debt advice helplines now and nobody was able to tell me what would be considered as proof of the debt in a court of law. Nobody said "they need to send you statement of accounts from Vodaphone" etc. I do think a judge wouldn't expect me to take their word for it, without providing any paperwork from the original creditor. My instinct is that Lowells simply don't have any.

With regard to the legality of what Lowell Group is doing in your case, I have listed potential offences they are committing under the Criminal Law -

Section 20, Theft Act 1968 (Blackmail)[Making Unwarranted Threats with Menaces]
Section 2, Fraud Act 2006 (Fraud by False Misrepresentation)[Claiming you owe money that, potentially, you do not]
Section 2, Protection from Harassment Act 1997 (Harassment) [The repeated demands and threats Lowells are making and Vodafone for putting them up to it]
Data Protection Act 1998 (Potential breaches of Data Protection Act)

This is fantastic. So helpful. Thank you very much. Exactly what I was looking for. If I was to take this further, I would need to start a court claim for each offence? If I have a strong case I will do this.

If I owe the money then I will pay it. However, I don't believe that I do and I am certainly not paying it unless they can provide proof. That's a normal persons idea of proof, not theirs

[bluebottle]

Re: Guess who? Yep, Lowell (and friends)

Hi Angel Islington,

Thank you for getting back to us.

A couple of points. You say Vodafone never sent you a letter telling you how much your final payment would be. If Vodafone stuck to the Civil Procedures Rules 1998, which it appears they have not, they should have attempted to resolve the dispute with you before passing the matter to a DCA. The fact they did not send you a letter informing you they were passing the matter to a DCA is, in all probability, a breach of the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines.

How would a court view this?

The Civil Procedures Rules 1998 place a statutory obligation upon the parties in a civil dispute to take all proper and reasonable steps to resolve their dispute before resorting to court action. In layman's terms, the parties in a dispute can only take the dispute before a court for adjudication after they have exhausted every other way of trying to resolve the dispute. The rules do not permit either party to use the courts as a first line of attack.

If the DCA involved in your case attempts to issue court proceedings, you could cite that the original creditor failed to comply with the Civil Procedures Rules and failed to advise you of what your final payment would be, knowing that it was in dispute.

The criminal offences I listed in my last post cannot be pursued through the civil courts, only through a criminal court, which would involve police, trading standards and the CPS.

DCAs are chancers, cheats and the lowest form of life. They also conveniently forget or are so brain-dead they don't realise that their actions are in clear breach of the law.

Apart from Harassment, the offences I have listed are, I must stress, potential, not actual, offences. The Fraud offence will only kick in if they cannot provide proof of a lawful debt and the Blackmail offence will only kick in at the same time, too. Please be aware that Blackmail and Fraud both carry custodial sentences (14 years for Blackmail, 5 years for Fraud). I have a feeling you may not have to go to the point of involving the police in this matter unless the DCA does something really silly. The OFT you may, possibly, have to involve if the DCA ignores any letters you send them. However, at the end of the day no DCA is going to risk prosecution, unless its management team harbour a commercial death wish, or its CCA licence being revoked.

I am a retired policeman and look at cases, like your own, from a number of angles and have also dealt with DCAs on behalf of others, in the past.

Let us know how you get on.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Guess who? Yep, Lowell (and friends)

It will cost just £2 to obtain a copy of your Experian credit file.

I believe that in your case it would be of benefit also to make a SAR to Vodaphone, the cost of which is £10.

[ODC]

Re: Guess who? Yep, Lowell (and friends)

Personally I would ignore the Leeds Losers. You have asked them for proof. They have failed to supply it.

As for giving Experian or any other CRA money to check your Credit File I would NEVER do it. You are only updating THEIR records and of course this then becomes readily available to their colleagues in the DCAs. I once used a CRA and gave the number of a PAYG mobile and the next thing I knew I was innundated with calls from the pond life chasing long forgotten debt. CRAs and DCAs are best treated as mushrooms, kept in the dark and fed on shi**

[angel.islington]

Re: Guess who? Yep, Lowell (and friends)

I have paid the £2 to Equifax to view my credit file online and then printed it off. Lowell are on there and registered a default in November 2008. The Vodaphone account shows as settled earlier that year. Nothing from Red or any other form of Lowell. No recent searches from anyone either.

I guess a SAR to Vodaphone is next.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

Personally I would ignore the Leeds Losers. You have asked them for proof. They have failed to supply it.

As for giving Experian or any other CRA money to check your Credit File I would NEVER do it. You are only updating THEIR records and of course this then becomes readily available to their colleagues in the DCAs. I once used a CRA and gave the number of a PAYG mobile and the next thing I knew I was innundated with calls from the pond life chasing long forgotten debt. CRAs and DCAs are best treated as mushrooms, kept in the dark and fed on shi**

I've been ignoring them for nearly two years and they don't appear to have got the hint. How long would they carry on sending me letters? Another two years?

I understand where you are coming from RE CRA's however I gave them as little info as possible and only gave them info that a DCA could obtain from elsewhere anyway. Now that I have the info from my file I can see that Lowell registered a default and can start action to get it resolved.

[bluebottle]

Re: Guess who? Yep, Lowell (and friends)

Hi Angel Islington,

I've just read your last post. What the hell do Vodafone and the Leeds Losers think they're playing at?

The first and most important thing to do is send a Special Delivery letter to the CEO of Vodafone and ask for a full explanation as to what the hell is going on. Only allow them 7 days to respond. Do not entertain any acknowledgment letters, saying they will reply "in due course". Keep them on the shortest leash possible. If the Vodafone account was settled, Lowell Group had no right or business registering a DN on you Credit File. Don't for one minute think Experian are the only CRA who have this on their files. I think you will find every other CRA has it, too.

Once you get an explanation from Vodafone, you can then go about battering the directors of the Lowell Group to death, legally, with the threat of proceedings under the four pieces of legislation I listed in a previous post. I would also report the Lowell Group and CRAs who have the DN on their records to the ICO. Go to the ICO website and download a complaint form. Then, just to rub things in, make a formal complaint against Lowell Group to the OFT Consumer Credit Licensing Department.

When I was a CID officer, we had a name for what I have described in the preceding paragraph - Stitching Them Up Like Kippers. Only, we only ever did that to those who richly deserved to be stitched up like kippers. And remember, Angel, a victory for you is a victory for other consumers as it lets low-life like Lowells know the tide is turning against them and they ignore it at their peril.

Consumers are getting better at hitting back at sharp practices, bullying and cheating by corporate organisations, through forums like Legal Beagles. What would be lovely is for bullies, like Lowells, to cack themselves whenever they hear the name Legal Beagles.

Go get 'em, girl, and the very best of luck!

Bluebottle

[Angry Cat]

Re: Guess who? Yep, Lowell (and friends)

If the account was marked settled by Vodaphone in early 2008, that information will stay on your credit file for 6 years.

Lowell cannot start processing subsequent information;
the account was either settled or, it wasn't.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
I am still of the opinion that you need to gather information.

And the only way that you will get to the bottom of this matter is to make a FULL SAR to Vodaphone.

One you are in receipt of all info/docs. you can then log a formal complaint with the ICO and the OFT.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Guess who? Yep, Lowell (and friends)

Personally I would ignore the Leeds Losers. You have asked them for proof. They have failed to supply it.

As for giving Experian or any other CRA money to check your Credit File I would NEVER do it. You are only updating THEIR records and of course this then becomes readily available to their colleagues in the DCAs. I once used a CRA and gave the number of a PAYG mobile and the next thing I knew I was innundated with calls from the pond life chasing long forgotten debt. CRAs and DCAs are best treated as mushrooms, kept in the dark and fed on shi**

I know where you are coming from ODC.
However, it depends on whether an individual wants to fight back or, hide?
It also depends on the validity of one dispute.

Personally speaking, I have been making regular audits of my CRA credit files for the last 6 years. Due to this,the information that I have archived has enabled me to disprove subsequent information that certain large organisations registered with the 3 CRA's.

Therefore, the ICO told these organisations to remove said information.

The information was removed as I held the proof and still do!:beagle:

[angel.islington]

Re: Guess who? Yep, Lowell (and friends)

I've just gone back and looked at my file again to make sure that I didn't misread it, which I didn't. It shows the Vodafone account as settled in May 2008. As I mentioned, Lowell then registered a default in November the same year. I need to double check the dates on the letters I have received as I am pretty sure that I didn't receive the first letter from Lowell until after the default was registered. I will have to confirm that when I get home from work.

I will SAR Vodafone tomorrow and then when I get that info back I will have a better idea of what's going on, what information they supplied to Lowell etc.

Trust me, I will be kippering them I just need to make sure that I get my info together first. I'm not sure in my mind exactly what has gone on yet, once I do then I can instigate all the action that bluebottle has mentioned.

You might want to keep an eye on this thread, it could make interesting reading.

[angel.islington]

Re: Guess who? Yep, Lowell (and friends)

Just as an addition to the above. I have checked the paperwork I have from Lowell and the first letter is from March 2010. Surely they can't register a default nearly a year and a half before the first correspondence is sent?

[bluebottle]

Re: Guess who? Yep, Lowell (and friends)

Hi Angel,

What I can't understand is why the Leeds Losers registered a default when your credit record clearly showed all debts had been settled and there were none outstanding. This sounds to me like a breach of the Data Protection Act 1998, i.e. Failing to Maintain Accurate Records, Using Personal Data for An Illegal Purpose, Allowing Personal Data for An Illegal Purpose. However, all breaches of the DPA are dealt with by the Information Commissioners Office (ICO). As of 6 April 2010, ICO can impose a Financial Penalty Notice (FPN) of up to £500K on any data controller/user who commits a breach or breaches of the DPA.

It would probably be a good idea to ask Vodafone to confirm, in writing, that the final account they submitted to you was settled in July 2008 and whether or not they instructed Lowells to pursue you subsequent to this. Do not tell Vodafone what Lowells have done in the last two years. If you do that, Vodafone will deny they have anything to do with it. Once you have that letter, send a letter to Lowells and ask them to confirm, in writing, as to when Vodafone instructed them to pursue you, requesting a copy of any correspondence from Vodafone confirming this. The idea is to get Vodafone to incriminate themselves and, in doing so, incriminate Lowells as well. It's a technique used by law enforcement officers to find out exactly what has been going on and who is responsible for what.

Make sure you send in the SAR to Vodafone. It is important to get as much information out of them as possible. The letters I have mentioned above are just as important. It should confirm, once and for all, exactly what has happened.

Keep us here, at LB, informed.

All the best,

Bluebottle