Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

[WendyB]

Re: Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

A SAR isn't £1, its £10. CCA is £1

[Pinky69]

Re: Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

They don't have to default you - it is up to the individual creditor - but then if they do default you at a later stage you have grounds to make a complaint to the ICO that they didn't default you when you were only making a token payment. The judgement of whether £79 was a "low" token payment would be one for the ICO but as it is less than a quarter of the scheduled monthly payment there are grounds to argue you should have been defaulted once the £79 kicked in. There are no alternatives to a default, which is a breakdown in the relationship between the creditor and lender. A DN isn't necessary to enter a default - they can do so after you have missed 3 payments - but they should have sent you a notice of intention to default.

If the agency contacting you is part of Barclays then the account won't have been sold but simply passed to them for collection, in which case repudiation of contract is irrelevant. I would certainly want to see why you still owed over £6000 after all the payments you made and check there are no unlawful charges but my view is that you will have to pay this and should make an arrangement to do so once you have the SAR response.

[The Debt Star]

Re: Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

Hi. No question I have to pay this, thats not the issue. The issue for me is the Default (one with the CRAs) and also unlawful rescission. CDCS may well be owned by the Barclays group but they are, I believe, a separate legal entity and limited company regardless of whether they have a desk in the same building next to the knob jockeys from Barclaycard. To that extent IMO both companies have to follow the procedures. Hence unlawful rescission.

So its the ICO route when the register the Default. I don't suppose I can register a complaint with the ICO until they do the Default registration but my other ICO complaints are now like 6 months old with no further contact at all!

Sorry about spellings on these and other posts - my laptop keyboard is now so old it is completely bald (apart from the Q, Z and X keys!)

DS

[paulb2905]

Re: Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

I understood that to be your position at the outset and wasnt inferring any attempt to "get out of debt" - just to put you in a position to demonstrate that Cdcs (and MLoan) had acted improperly and unreasonably - and consequently enable you to come back to the arrangement you had prior to their cock up!!

The Repudiation/Unlawful Rescission came up only as a possible alternative and which i think you would have to go to court to prove/enforce (im not advocating you do this)

Paul

[The Debt Star]

Re: Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

just to put you in a position to demonstrate that Cdcs (and MLoan) had acted improperly and unreasonably - and consequently enable you to come back to the arrangement you had prior to their cock up!!

Exactly, that's what my campaign objectives are here. I can then make a F&F or enter a repayment plan with Barclays (a) without the Default on my credit files and (b) without CDCS involvement.

Here is my proposed complaint to the ICO:-


I took out a Barclays Masterloan for £19,356.00 with Barclays in May 2003. The original monthly payments were £323.00 over a 60 month period.

I got into financial difficulties and the CCCS negotiated a repayment plan of approximately £79 pm. The reduced repayments were therefore less than a quarter of the original monthly repayment sum and as such were token payments. After seven and a half years I still owe £6,603.00 liability.

When the CCCS took over my payments Barclays registered an “Arrangement to Pay” with the credit reference agencies. They did not register a Default for some reason, despite the token payments being made under the Debt Management Plan.

I left the CCCS when I went to work overseas but continued paying the loan. When I came back to UK I continued paying the token payments. Around August 2009 or thereabouts Barclays stopped collecting the payments from my debit card (that is how they were paid).

I wrote to Barclays on X December 2009 asking what had happened and got a response from them on X February 2010 saying that their system had screwed up and that was why nothing had been collected by them. Could I please then write to such and such department to set up the repayments again etc. I was a bit put out that it was me that had to do the running to pay them, after having made the effort to contact them, so I did not do this and chose to wait for Barclays to contact me instead. I left things as they were and no payments have been made to Barclays since August 2009 or thereabouts. Barclays had a valid postal address for me and which they have used in the past. However, nothing further was received in the post from them.

I received a letter from CDCS and dated X November 2010. This is the first communication I have had concerning the loan since Barclays’ letter in February 2010. CDCS advise me that the account has been closed. A default has been registered with the CRAs by Barclays and that they (CDCS) will take further action if I don't pay the full balance within 7 days etc.

No statements have bee sent by Barclays; no warning letters have been received; no intention to issue a default notice and no default notice were sent. Neither have I received a notice of assignment to CDCS.

As far as the default is concerned, there are sections in the ICO technical guidance on defaults which say (1) Barclays should have given me a notice of intention to default before they did so and (2) they should have defaulted me when started paying through CCCS as I was only making token payments. Barclays did not have to Default me in June 2006 - it is up to the individual creditor - but then as they clearly have Defaulted me now at a later stage I have grounds to make a complaint to the ICO that they did not Default me when I was only making a token payment. The payments of around £79.00 are for less than a quarter of the scheduled monthly payment and I argue that I should have been Defaulted once the £79 reduced payments kicked in, in June 2006.

Furthermore, Barclays should have sent you a notice of intention to Default. They did not.

As far as the Notice of Assignment goes, CDCS may well have bough the debt (you will find the enclosed letter sufficiently obtuse in that regard). If they have bought the debt then the agreement was repudiated at the point of sale because it was sold without prior issue of a default notice.

In short, Barclays have not sent me any of the following statutory documents prior to terminating the account and transferring it to a debt collection agency:

• Default Notice, compliant with the Consumer Credit Act
• Termination Notice
• Notice of Assignment, as prescribed and in the format required by the Law of Property Act 1925. Section 136(1) requires that for the assignment of a debt to be effective, express notice in writing must have been given to the debtor. However, it is Section 196(4) that prescribes the requirements for giving sufficient notice by recorded post.
• Proof of delivery, it is a requirement of the Law of Property Act 1925 that this be sent registered/recorded delivery
• CDCS have also not sent a default notice or a copy of the notice of assignment

I therefore require the removal of the Default registered by Barclays and/or their agents on my credit files.

[paulb2905]

Re: Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

Looks ok from my perspective

[The Debt Star]

Re: Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

Cheers bud. Although BC haven't recorded the Default with the CRAs yet the letter from CDCS says that they already have and, on that basis, I'm gonna fire off the ICO complaint. It'll probbaly get a response by 2012, just in time for the end of the world, eh?

[paulb2905]

Re: Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

If the Mayans are correct then yes - dont worry that will sort all the debt problems of the world!!!

[The Debt Star]

Re: Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

yeah come to think of it my personal debt is so massive its probably mentioned by Nostradamus.

[The Debt Star]

Re: Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

I am getting pestered by CDCS debt collectors, Barclays' in-house debt collection mob.

I received the "hello" letter from CDCS's Head of Debt Collections last month. I then sent him a CCA request and PROVE IT letter as follows:

Dear Mr DCA,

Account: XYZ
Barclaycard Account: 123456789 IN DISPUTE
Your Reference: 123456789

I note from your letter of X November 2010 that the above numbered account “has been closed” and “transferred” to you for collection.

I was very surprised to receive your aforementioned correspondence.

I do not acknowledge any debt with yourselves. If you are indeed the owner of this debt I require you to prove it by providing me with the true copies of the following documents:

Barclaycard Loan Account Number 123456789

1. Original signed executed credit agreement under s. 77 (1) and s. 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (“the Act”)
2. full statement of account. Your obligation extends to providing me with a statement of account
3. the Default Notice your Customer should have sent me to be compliant with the Act
4. the Termination Notice your Customer should have sent me

5. the Notice of Assignment, as prescribed and in the format required, assigning the debt from Barclays Bank to yourselves. This is an obligation, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

6. Proof of delivery of the Notice of Assignment. It is a requirement of the Act that this be sent by registered or recorded delivery.

7. the Prescribed Terms and the Terms & Conditions for the above named loan.

CDCS

1. the Default Notice you sent me, compliant with the Act.

I enclose a £1.00 postal order which represents payment of the statutory fee payable under the Act. A copy of my credit agreement plus the other statutory documents referred to should be supplied within 12 working days from the date of this letter.Some of this information mirrors a Subject Access Request so the enclosed £1.00 made payable to yourselves is in respect of the copy of my credit agreement. The additional documents are legal documents that should have been sent to me in the first place and which you are required to supply as the purported owners of the alleged debt.

I note that you threaten further action if I do not pay the full amount of the purported debt to you within 7 days. I suggest that any further action would be premature and vexatious. This is because you are obliged to refrain from any further action until this dispute is fully resolved and the above documentation supplied.

Until you have provided me with ALL of the documents listed above I will not entertain any idea of making any payments whatsoever.

Yours faithfully,

The Debt Star

I simultaneously wrote to the OC with a SAR and put the account in dispute.

Both letters sent by Special Delivery AND fax - and I have confirmation of delivery to CDCS and Barclaycard (Barclays). All of the the above was received by the DCA and OC early last week. I also sent a complaint to the FOS because of the timescales for the FOS to respond and knowing full well that Barclays won't recall the account and let me negotiate a repayment plan or F&F direct with them.

TODAY, I received this in the post from CDCS (NB all of their letters seem to be timed to arrive on Saturday mornings, to trash my weekends and cause maximum distress):

http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/z...1/07ed4763.jpg

http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/z...1/5d41b07a.jpg

So I have now replied by Fax and Recorded Post to CDCS as follows:

Dear Mr DCA

CEASE AND DESIST

Account: XYZ
Barclaycard Account: 123456789 IN DISPUTE
Your Reference: 123456789
Financial Ombudsman Ref: 123456789

I am disappointed to note that you:

1. State in writing that you “have not yet received a reply or payment of the outstanding balance”; and that
2. You threaten (1) a home visit, (2) a County Court Judgement and (3) further assignment of the account to another Debt Collection Agency.

You are now in SERIOUS BREACH of the OFT Guidance on debt collection activities. CDCS will be reported to the OFT, your local Trading Standards and the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS). Please note the above FOS case adjudication number.

YOU WILL NOTE THAT:

1. I contacted you by FAX and SPECIAL DELIVERY POST on X November 2010. The Post Office tracking service confirmed delivery of my letter to you on X November 2010. I have a valid receipt for service of both this letter and the fax.
2. You have been asked to provide PROOF of your ownership of the account.
3. You have been sent a ss.77-78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 (“CCA”) request for a true copy of my signed credit agreement, together with payment.
4. You have been requested to send me evidence of assignment of the debt to you by Barclays Bank Plc; a copy of the assignment deed; evidence of the Default Notice to which you refer; a full statement of account; and a copy of the prescribed terms for the agreement.

For the avoidance of doubt, the above numbered account has been put in dispute with Barclays Bank Plc.

I am familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

I would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive and unfair methods.

Further to the above, please ensure that any contact by yourselves is made in writing only to the above address. Telephone calls and personal visits will not be accepted and viewed as harassment and will be reported to the police accordingly.

You, Mr DCA [named], Senior Collections Manager for CDCS, are hereby placed on notice that you will be held personally liable for distress caused by unlawful and vexatious debt collection actions by your organisation.

You are hereby required to CEASE AND DESIST from such actions with immediate effect.

Ignoring and disregarding claims that debts have been disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical and psychological harassment.

I would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my liability for the debt in question.

I look forward to hearing from you within the statutory time limit for the CCA request.

Yours sincerely,

The Debt Star


So, the question is, where next? What if they send a hard knock to my front door to terrorise my wife and children? They say they may do that. What iof they go to court?

I'm not too concerned about them sending the account to another DCA as I have registered a dispute and also have a complaint fired off to the FOS..

All I want out of this is for the account to revert to Barclays and for me to offer them a repayment plan or a F&F. But what has happened is that the debt appears to have been passed to CDCS and defaulted without any prior notification this side of 2006 when the original repayment arrangement was entered into, and I have received no prior excess notice warnings whatsover.

I do hope that a fellow LB'er can assist me with this.

DS

[jumper999]

Re: Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

Hi TDS, sorry to hear about your problem.....but if you have registered a complaint against them to the FOS they should put things on hold until the FOS reach their final decision.

A word of advice, when you complain to the FOS make sure you do not leave anything out. Send them every little detail you possibly can. Hopefully that way the FOS will be able to make a proper decision on where to go.

Even though I complained to the FOS who I must admit were not that sympathetic, but IF court proceedings are issued it will prove that you tried to do all you possibly could to try and reach some sort of agreement or settlement prior to any legal action.......so can only look good for you.

You are entitled to refuse any home visits and maybe you should send a separate letter stating that you will not entertain any home or attempted home visit by any of their agents and send it special delivery.

Either way I am sure you will receive some good advice from members on here and from CAG too. I wish you luck however things go mate.

You need to in my opinion highlight all the things that Barclays should not have done and if necessary quotes from the OFT Guidelines highlighting them.

[The Debt Star]

Re: Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

Hi Jumper! ALWAYS a pleasure to hear from you.
Do you think a separate letter regarding the home visits is the right way to go then?
Can I sue the head of debt collection at the DCA personally for harrassment if that happens do you think? It is him that is signing off these letters, making the threats and presumably picking up the 'phone get a door step heavy to come round.

[jumper999]

Re: Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

Hi TDS, I think you should hold fire about suing anyone at the moment and concentrate more on what you are going to do to sort this problem or debt out should I say.

Obviously if you feel that strong about not letting any agent visit you at home home then you are in your legal right and position to refuse this, and therefore to put your mind at rest you could send them a letter. The majority of the times they only write this to put the ****ES up people.

As for this Chris Gates.....is he personally handling your case/complaint..........if so then maybe you could write to him with your concerns and any issues that you have, and also how you are willing or prepared to as you say come to an arrangement/agreement.

What have you got to lose? you are a debtor in a genuine crisis amongst a thousand others in the land and you are trying to do your best to try and come to a compromise. If the other side do not take kindly to anything you have to offer or consider that your concerns and issues are not worth looking at then IF this gets to court it can only look good in your favor as you are the one who is trying to to the responsible and right thing.

Also like me, we are looking to avoid the debt, just trying to find a way to sort this out. Bloody hell I thin it would have better to join the student march a few days ago LOL! Look at what they done.

Talk about trying to reasonable and sensible these days is like hammering nails in your head LOL!

[The Debt Star]

Re: Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

Jumper
Thanks for your post. Have you for that.

Do you think I should write that "appeal to common decency" letter to CDCS now or wait until I have evidence they own the debt?

DS

[jumper999]

Re: Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

Would you title the letter "appeal to common decency"?

because you don't want to write anything that could be turned around on you and may you look like you are taking the pxxx.....if you know what I mean.

You need to keep it simple and to the point and concentrate on the matters that you believe are important to you, no harm in writing. You could wait but it is good to get all you can together as you do not know how far this could go, and one thing I have learned very bitterly is make sure you have everything together an in order.

As these creditors/lenders are like the enemy who like to attack you whilst you are asleep, and even Lord Vader cannot help us out at these times. So prepare for battle and get all your weapons and armor polished and squeaky clean, then after maybe we can have a cuppa tea with Vader in the Def Star canteen LOL!!!!!!!!!!