Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

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I received the above DCA letter in the post this morning.

I took out a Masterloan for about £19K with Barclays in about 2003. I got into financial difficulties around 2005/6 and CCCS negotiated a repaymenbt plan of £79 pm.

I left the CCCS DMP when I went to work overseas but continued paying the Masterloan. Now owe £6,600.

Came back to UK, continued paying. Around August/September 2009 Masterloan stopped collecting the payments from my debit card (that is how they were paid).

I wrote to them in October 2009 asking what had happened and got a response saying their system had screwed up and that was why nothing had been collected. Could I please weitw to such and such to set up a repayments etc. I was a bit put out that it was me that had to do the running to pay them, afer having made the effort to contact them, so I didn't do this. I left things as they were and no payments have been made to Masterloan since that point. They had a valid address but nothing has ever been received in the post from them - ever - since that acknowledgement letter of late 2009.

Today I received the attached letter from CDCS. The account has been closed. A default has been registered. CDCS will tale further action if I don't pay the b/l of £6,600.00.

No warning letters have been received; no default notice has been received. Just this CDCS letter.

What should I do?

[The Debt Star]

Re: Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

Anyone?!

[paulb2905]

Re: Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

Looks like your typical kind of situation really.....

Write to them with prove it letter, along with request for copy of Masterloan's DN, TN, NOA (inc proof of recorded delivery/signature), and CDCS introductory letter/payment request details plus their DN.

[The Debt Star]

Re: Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

Hi Paul and thanks.

Who do I write to, CDCS or the OC (Barclaycard)?

[The Debt Star]

Re: Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

Also do I offer to pay CDCS and send them an ie sheet at this point? They have threatened this 7 day "or else".

[Pinky69]

Re: Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

I would want to see statements before I agreed to pay anything. As far as the default is concerned, there are sections in the ICO technical guidance on defaults which say 1) they should have given you a notice of intention to default before they did so and 2) they should have defaulted you when you started paying through CCCS as you were only making token payments. You will find the technical guidance on defaults on the ICO's website. As far as a DN goes, you obviously haven't received one so you need to find out from CDCS if they have bought the debt or are just collecting on behalf of Barclays. If they have bought the debt then the agreement was repudiated at the point of sale because it was sold without prior issue of a DN. That means they lose the right to all future payments and all they can claim from you are the arrears. Don't mention this to them - just ask them of they bought it and ask Barclays for a copy of their NOA as you didn't receive one form them. If the agreement was repudiated then you need to write to Barclays and tell them you accept the repudiation of agreement which occurred when they sold the aggrement without prior issue of a DN then tell CDCS that they are only entitled to collect the arrears.

[paulb2905]

Re: Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

I would say write to Cdcs for ALL the info as they claim to be the owner of the debt now - dont offer any payment as yet.

Mark the letter as in DISPUTE untill ALL the requested information is supplied, consequently any further action at this point would be vexatious and premature.

Make sure you tell them that a) you wont be accepting any phonecalls and b) point out that a bailiff has to make an appointment to come and see you (in writing)

Something like;

Dear Sirs
Account No: xxxxx IN DISPUTE

I was very suprised to receive your correspondence of the XX

I do not acknowledge any debt with yourselves, but if you are indeed the owner of this debt i require you to prove it by providing me with the true copies of the following documents;

Masterloan

Agreement - signed
Default Notice, compliant with the Consumer Credit Act
Termination Notice
Notice of Assignment, as prescribed and in the format required by the Law of Property Act 1925 (i think thats the one)
Proof of delivery, it is a requirement of the Act that this be sent registered/recorded delivery

CDCS
Your introductory letter with details where i can contact you and make payments to.
Default Notice, compliant with the Consumer Credit Act

I note that you threaten further action if i do not pay the full amount of the purported debt to you within 7 days. I suggest that any further action would be premature and vexatious and until you have provided me with ALL of the documents listed above I will not entertain any idea of making payments whatsoever.

I am only prepared to correspond with yourselves in writing, any phonecalls will be deemed as harassment and possibly as fraudulent as you have not yet proved that you are the legal owner of any alleged debt.

Incidentally you should note that it is a requirement for bailiffs to make an appointment to visit me at my home. Should any bailiffs turn up without a prior appointment (this should be made in writing) I will have no option but to call the police to report harassment by both them and yourselves.

I look forward to receiving the information above.........

I agree with Pinky re the repudiated/unlawful rescission - but its much debated and not aware of anyone actually testing this in court yet with the CCA, plenty of case law for repudiation tho.

So its worth a cheeky registered delivery letter to Masterloan/Barclays accepting the repudiation (but you may have to see this one out in court if you want to try it)

[The Debt Star]

Pinky and Paul
I am indebted to you both.

Couple of queries:
1. From memory, the SAR does not have to include a copy of the alleged DNs does it? Just a record of when it was sent? It's their word against the consumers presumably? My experience of B'card is that they use every dirty trick in the book.

2. What documents are they obliged to send recorded?

[The Debt Star]

Re: Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

CDCS appear to be a division of Barclays Bank and so an in-house DCA.
Their "hello" letter also refers to Barclays Bank as "Our client" so do I need to send the Prove It & CCA to CDCS, and the SAR with specific reference to the copy NOA to Barclaycard?

[paulb2905]

Re: Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

DS, dont think this needs to be an SAR really - u could send £1 i guess and cover your bases.

Cdcs, from that letter, appear to be saying that they "own" the debt not Masterloan/Barclays.

The docs are listed in order, the NOA should be sent be registered (recorded) post.
(theres a recent thread on the site around equitable assignments, saw it the other day worth having a look), you are required by law to have been sent a DN, so its reasonable to request a copy of the one you should have received.

I think its reasonable to request the docs as its a bit like me sending you a letter saying "debtstar" owes me £10,000 payup within 7 days or im sending the bailiffs............ if you get my drift.

Maybe add in the line, "some of this information mirrors a SAR77/78/79 request so i enclose £1 made payable to yourselves in respect of this. Any documents outside of a SAR are legal documents that should have been sent to me in the first place with the remainder being reasonable documents reasonably expected to have been sent to myself". You could also then request copies of the Prescribed Terms and the Terms & Conditions to the Masterloan documents.

[The Debt Star]

Re: Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

Cheers dude. Appreciated.
You ok to follow this thread? I'll post up their responses when I hear from them.
DS

[paulb2905]

Re: Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

Yeah sure.

Heres some of the info relating to NOA pinched from another thread

You may want to add this to your defence, it's something that I did for somebody else some time age. It explains the whole background to assignments:-

20. The Law of Property Act 1925 is the relevant act that deals with the assignment of debts. Section 136(1) requires that for the assignment of a debt to be effective, express notice in writing must have been given to the debtor:-

136. Legal assignments of things in action.
— (1) Any absolute assignment by writing under the hand of the assignor (not purporting to be by way of charge only) of any debt or other legal thing in action, of which express notice in writing has been given to the debtor, trustee or other person from whom the assignor would have been entitled to claim such debt or thing in action, is effectual in law (subject to equities having priority over the right of the assignee) to pass and transfer from the date of such notice—

21. However, it is Section 196(4) that prescribes the requirements for giving sufficient notice by post:-

196. Regulations respecting notices.
(4) Any notice required or authorised by this Act to be served shall also be sufficiently served, if it is sent by post in a registered letter addressed to the lessee, lessor, mortgagee, mortgagor, or other person to be served, by name, at the aforesaid place of abode or business, office, or counting-house, and if that letter is not returned [by the postal operator (within the meaning of the Postal Services Act 2000) concerned] undelivered; and that service shall be deemed to be made at the time at which the registered letter would in the ordinary course be delivered.

22. It is noted that by the Recorded Delivery Service Act 1962 a recorded delivery letter is equivalent to a registered letter and that under the Postal Services Act 2000 Schedule 8 any reference to registered post is to be construed as meaning a registered postal service (eg Royal Mail recorded delivery or special delivery).


23. For the assignment of a debt to be effective and so giving the Claimant a right of action a valid Notice of Assignment must have been sufficiently served on me using a registered postal service pursuant to s196(4) before proceedings were commenced. The Claimant is put to strict proof that any notice of assignment was sufficiently served on me before proceedings were commenced. Without this proof, the Claimant has no right of action.


24. Further, it is submitted that the mere fact of giving a notice does not, of itself, create an assignment and that there must be an actual assignment in existence. It is the actual Assignment, not just the Section 136 notice, under which the Claimant derives title to bring the claim and the Claimant is put to strict proof that such Assignment exists. It is further averred that I am entitled, in any event, to view the document of assignment as a matter of law (Van Lynn Developments v Pelias Construction Co Ltd 1968 [3] All ER 824)

25. It is further averred that to be valid the the alleged notice of assignment must accurately describe the assignment including the date (W F Harrison & Co Ltd v Burke & another [1956] 2 ALL ER 169).

Read more at: Help needed with LCS and 1st credit Claim - possible fraudulent documents - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

[Pinky69]

Re: Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

You won't get a copy of a DN. Banks don't keep them - they just do them on templates and use the same templates over and over again. It is simply a case of you knowing that you didn't get one and arguing on that basis. In a court you could ask for strict proof of postage. I have stopped banks in their tracks just telling them they sold the disputed account without prior issue of a DN.

[The Debt Star]

Re: Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

You won't get a copy of a DN. Banks don't keep them - they just do them on templates and use the same templates over and over again. It is simply a case of you knowing that you didn't get one and arguing on that basis. In a court you could ask for strict proof of postage. I have stopped banks in their tracks just telling them they sold the disputed account without prior issue of a DN.

That's what I thought. However its very reassuring to hear its not a show stopper. Barclays/Barclaycard being what they are will say they sent a DN even though they haven't. Infact, they haven't sent a statement or chased any money any ar all for over 18 months now. Then this in-house DCA letter turns up.

I suspect my complaint against Barclaycard ref my Credit Card with them (a separate thread on here) either alerted them to this loan or else rattled someone there to do what they have done.

BC stopped collecting payments mysteriously in August 2009. In December 2009 I myself wrote to them asking what was going on (I didn't want a Default, any grief etc and besides it was in my pre LB / CAG days). In February 2010 (2 months later!) they responded saying their system had an error and asked me to contact their recoveries team. I didn't. I felt they should contact me first as the error was their fault. Then a further 9 months passed without a whisper from them until this letter on Saturday morning.

[The Debt Star]

Re: Masterloan - Help & Advice Please

2) they should have defaulted you when you started paying through CCCS as you were only making token payments. .

Am interested in this point. Have just taken a look at Equifax.

When CCCS got on board in June 2006 Barclaycard didn't register a Default instead they registered an "AP."

In 2003 when I took out this loan I was paying £320 pm. Under CCCS (and long afterwards) I paid Barclays £79 pm. Does this count as a "token payment"? The original loan was for £19K.

Under the ICO guidelines, did they HAVE to default me or was it an option for them? ie is an AP an alternative to a Default?