DCA Just sent a copy of t & c's for CCA request? Thoughts please!

[The Tinkerman]

Re: DCA Just sent a copy of t & c's for CCA request? Thoughts please!

Hi AC
she is in the process of turning her house upside down in order to find the PPI insurance document and the answer to 99.9% of the questions you asked is no to each of them, and from what she can remember she had to take PPI out in order to get the loan.

Just a quick question though

Although she has not made any acknowledgement so to speak re: the alleged debt, she has been making token payments for the past 9 years up to when she sent her dispute letter off to them recently, but if she does find the PPI Insurance document and they do take it to court without a copy of the CCA and they just present the T & C'S were does she stand then.

[The Tinkerman]

Re: DCA Just sent a copy of t & c's for CCA request? Thoughts please!

Sorry no TUTTSI

she is not self employed

[Angry Cat]

Re: DCA Just sent a copy of t & c's for CCA request? Thoughts please!

Hi AC
she is in the process of turning her house upside down in order to find the PPI insurance document and the answer to 99.9% of the questions you asked is no to each of them, and from what she can remember she had to take PPI out in order to get the loan.

Has 'she' found the PPI documents, yet?

[Amethyst]

Re: DCA Just sent a copy of t & c's for CCA request? Thoughts please!

The SAR was to find out if she had PPI, regardless of whether they could find the original agreements they will have screen notes of opening balances and distribution of the funds etc and also payments made against the account etc.

I really wouldnt stop paying unless she particularly wants to go to court. Keep the token payments up till she gets the SAR response back and reclaim the PPI to pay off the debt.

[WendyB]

Re: DCA Just sent a copy of t & c's for CCA request? Thoughts please!

also, if she stops paying and goes down the unenforceable route, wouldn't this stuff up any claim on the PPI? As in, if the debt effectively doesn't exist, so to speak, how could you make a claim against any part of it? Can't have it both ways. I think her idea of using the PPI refund to clear the balance is the right one, if it can be sorted. In the meantime, keep paying the token amount, no point in walking to Court yourself is there? Wait for them to drag you there lol.

[The Tinkerman]

Re: DCA Just sent a copy of t & c's for CCA request? Thoughts please!

Sorry AC I am afraid not, but still looking
been in hospital all night back home thank goodness.

Have advised her to send off for a SAR anyway

What my thinking was Wendy B the reason she asked for the CCA request was to find out is she had PPI and how had it been applied,but they state that they have not got it, so if she finds out one way or another that she definitely had PPI then surely that's good enough reason for her to stop making the token payments and puts the ball firmly back in their Court
(Court being the operative word here)

The question here is if they wont play ball regarding the PPI If proved, do you think they would ever take this to Court because she has ceased payment, knowing 1, they have not got a copy of the CCA and 2, she had got unjustified PPI added to the loan therefore like you said does she then just wait for them to drag her there:tinysmile_grin_t:

[paulb2905]

Re: DCA Just sent a copy of t & c's for CCA request? Thoughts please!

Guys, how about a CPR31.16 Request rather than SAR or maybe in addition to it? and perhaps the wording "token payments will continue without prejudice until the timescales allowed for you to produce the documents requested/required have elapsed"????

Just a thought.....

[Amethyst]

Re: DCA Just sent a copy of t & c's for CCA request? Thoughts please!

Paul - http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Comm/2010/1900.html - just for info

[WendyB]

Re: DCA Just sent a copy of t & c's for CCA request? Thoughts please!

What I meant was that if she stops paying they will no doubt take her to court so that would be like opening the door to the courtroom and asking to be let in. If they did take her to court it would be up to you to prove unenforceability which is dodgy ground at the minute. The fact that PPI may or may not be missold is nothing to do with it. After all if you can't prove PPI was on the agreement anyway then they wouldn't care would they? On the other hand, if she finds the proof of PPI then make a claim for a refund of it. But if it were me I'd treat the two issues separately.

[The Tinkerman]

Re: DCA Just sent a copy of t & c's for CCA request? Thoughts please!

Hi Wendy B
so what your saying is that even though they have stated that that they have not got the Original CCA they MAY not be able to pursue this debt through the courts yet they will still pursue the debt so to speak that they would still take her to Court if she stopped paying them with just a Copy of the T&C's.

[paulb2905]

Re: DCA Just sent a copy of t & c's for CCA request? Thoughts please!

Ame's i read the case, however in presenting an alternative reading of the case and further to Carey v HSBC i think the following applies.

SAR78 request does not, carey v hsbc, require the Creditor to supply a true copy of the CCA and prescribed terms and therefore puts you onto dodgy ground to challange enforceability as this "reproduction" does not in and of itself satisfy the "proof purpose". Therefore you are left with limited recourse to obtain a copy that would enable you to bring and evidence your case in court. ergo if you make an SAR78 request for the statements but at the same time a CPR31.16 request for true copies of the original signed CCA & prescribed terms you have clearly defined, and limited, your CPR request to 2 documents. Allow them 40 days to comply in line with SAR78 and send the relevant fee (and perhaps offer to reimburse the reasonable costs of providing the true copies).
I admit you have to state that you have a "reason" to request this under CPR - eg further to recent developments in cases which you have seen on the internet in cases involving the Creditor you have reasonable doubt that they infact have a right to enforce the recovery of the debt.

I appreciate its only my interpretation, but otherwise you have no way whatsoever to obtain copies to fight your claim in court. Which is surely unfair in the eyes of the law as it must be applied equally to everyone???

[The Tinkerman]

Re: DCA Just sent a copy of t & c's for CCA request? Thoughts please!

BINGO!!!! she has just found the documents concerning the PPI, PLUS other documents appertaining to PPI for two previous loans she had with the same company, looks like they were top up loans paid off with the one in question.

PLUS wait for it! also an Original Agreement from one of the previous loans but not the one in question: which shows the PPI figure has been added to the loan figure for interest purposes what does she do next?

does she just carry on making the token payments and see what their next step is
or does she make them aware of her findings or does she stop making payments and see what their next step is.

[Amethyst]

Re: DCA Just sent a copy of t & c's for CCA request? Thoughts please!

Excellent

The PPI, is it on the current loan in question ? (or was the current loan to pay off a previous loan which had ppi)

Obviously you can claim the PPI back across all three loans and need to go through and check the rebate figures etc and what was carried on to the next loan. Might be worth getting all the figures down for some clever person to look at before you devise your plan of action.

Shame the original agreement is for a previous loan not the one you are currently having troubles with.

[The Tinkerman]

Re: DCA Just sent a copy of t & c's for CCA request? Thoughts please!

Cheers Amethyst

From what she tells me she has all 3 PPI insurance documents including the one in question

Once the rebate figures are all in order does she apply through robbersway for this or does she leave them out of the equation and apply to the OC AVCO TRUST, CITIGROUP or is their a different way of doing this.

[Amethyst]

Re: DCA Just sent a copy of t & c's for CCA request? Thoughts please!

For the refunds of PPI, I'll let the PPI experts help you (assuming the damn regulators don't let the banks get complaints handling waivers with this Judicial Review going on) Will bump a few peeps to pop in.