CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

[debtisbad]

Re: CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

Hi Amethyst

I got the reeply from CapQuest today and sent you details in a private message!

Al

[Curlyben]

Re: CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

Until they comply with your lawful request they can whistle.
There is no need to respond to them at all until this happens.

You may get a snotty nastygram from their solicitors-for-hire, HL Legal, but you can ignore that as well as CQ bulk purchase template solicitor letters..

[debtisbad]

Re: CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

Hi Curleybean!

Thanks for the comment.

They wrote as follows:

Anyway, let me summarize below. Having read your thread maybe I don't need to reply, as you so clearly state:

1) They acknowledge my letter (I bet!) but say as 1 pound was not paid they are not governed by the timescale set by the Consumer credit Act 1974. Not true, they cashed the original cheque and have failed to send a true copy, etc, just the naff copy, therefore they are goveerned by the timescales.

2) The account is on hold and they have asked Egg for the true copy document. They say in the unlikely event of Egg not producing the document (I don't think they have the info anyway), then the debt still stands, but they could not enforce the debt.

3) They say that they are under no obligation to cease interest on the account nor remove details from their files or from the credit reference agencies. I was thinking of sending the second template letter for unenforecable CCAs which repeats again that they cannot do this

4) Thet say they considered my F+F offer of 500 pounds but are not in a position to accept, they suggest 2500 pounds to be accepted by 30th June. hahaha, yeah sure.

[Curlyben]

Re: CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

Hi Curlybean!

Thanks for the comment. No worries. CQ are "Old Friends" of mine anyway

They wrote as follows:

Anyway, let me summarize below. Having read your thread maybe I don't need to reply, as you so clearly state:

1) They acknowledge my letter (I bet!) but say as 1 pound was not paid they are not governed by the timescale set by the Consumer credit Act 1974. Not true, they cashed the original cheque and have failed to send a true copy, etc, just the naff copy, therefore they are goveerned by the timescales. Well, as you have proof of the check being cashed they are all kinds of burgered.

2) The account is on hold and they have asked Egg for the true copy document. They say in the unlikely event of Egg not producing the document (I don't think they have the info anyway), then the debt still stands, but they could not enforce the debt. While this is indeed true without a compliant agreement they CANNOT take enforcement action of ANY description.

3) They say that they are under no obligation to cease interest on the account nor remove details from their files or from the credit reference agencies. I was thinking of sending the second template letter for unenforecable CCAs which repeats again that they cannot do this Who cares, as without a clear contractual provission and a compliant agreement they can't actually demand payment, now can they. They could add £1m a day for all we care, still goveren by CCA and UTCCR. Charges are charges

4) Thet say they considered my F+F offer of 500 pounds but are not in a position to accept, they suggest 2500 pounds to be accepted by 30th June. hahaha, yeah sure. Tough to them really then isn't it. The whole point of an F&F is the fact it is FINAL. You have tried to be more than reasonable, especially without the agreement, so I hope they can whistle as they'll be doing alot of that soon enough !!

Further comments in BLUE

Ps I'll pay them a visit on your behalf if you'd like as their office is only up the road from me, but last time I said I'd do that they went all panicy on me..

[debtisbad]

Re: CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

Hi Curleybean

Thanks for the explanation, also Amethyst copied your comments on a private message to me.

I've got the message, do nothing! hahaha :beagle:

With them getting confused over the proven one pound cheque cashed, not having a valid CCA and now unlawfully continuing to add interest, let alone turning donw a perfectly fair F+F settlement, they are screwing themselves over, so I will just watch while they drop themselves deeper and deeper in the S**t.

By the way, excuse my ignorance, but what is UTCCR?

Thanks again!

[Curlyben]

Re: CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

UTCCR - Unfair Terms In Consumer Contracts Regulations.
This is the regs that we use for reclaiming bank charges and are currently at the house of Lords with the OFT Test case.

IF CQ do continue with this approach, I have a few contacts we can use to get it dropped in double quick time

They have already seen me a few times in the past and seem to run off once I really get annoyed with them.

I have recently spanked them concerning an unlawful default that they placed on my credit files, but after a well worded letter and the threat of suing them for a bomb, they have yet again crawled back under their rock..

[debtisbad]

Re: CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

Absolutely brilliant! I will let you know if they bother to continue down this route!

[debtisbad]

Re: CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

OK, further to the earlier comments on this thread, I have just received my latest post from Taiwan and update as follows, please comment accordingly (If you need copies of any letters or documents, let me know and I will scan them in).

I have raised questions in bold type to make it easier for anyone to answer.

CapQuest (Ref Egg Loan that they purchased from Egg)

2500 pounds to 4800 pounds depending on which of their figures you take.

The CCA is unenforceable and I sent the first template letter informing them of this. They actually wrote back, unbelievably, accepting that the CCA was not a true copy of the original and said that they were going back to Egg to get a true copy. Well, I don't think one exists. However, today, I received a string of emails saying that they are still asking for money. Should I ignore their requests or write with the second template letter? They are apparently still adding interest which I thought you cannot do to a disputed account.

Egg Credit Card.

Despite a full SARS and CCA request, and yes, they cashed my cheque to pay for this and I have a copy if the statement proving this, they have never complied by sending this info. I have written to remind them of their obligation to send this information.

PPI reclaim. On the 13th May Egg wrote to me to say that they did not accept from the telephone transcripts that the policy was mis sold. On 9th June they somehow changed their minds and wrote as follows-They accept that according to their own telephone recording, a copy of which was given to me, I clearly said that I was working aboard, in Belgium at that time and they should not have proceeded with the PPI policy.

They say, “I have today refunded the premium charges to your account from September 2004 as a gesture of goodwill, together with associated interest charges. The total concerned is 79.45 and this will be credited to your egg account in the next 3-5 working days.”

This does not appear to me to be nearly the correct amount and I suspect “goodwill” means reduced offer. I owed 5000 pounds for 6 months on an interest free deal shortly after that and the charge was 74 pence per one hundred pounds. That alone would have been 222 pounds. Given a balance of at least 500 pounds per month until the present day that would have been 44.40 a year. What should I say and write to them?

However, a letter just a few days later dated 12th June 2009 from ARC (Europe) Ltd in Walton-on-Thames said “this account has been passed to us for collection” by Egg. However, there is no acknowledgement of my living in Taiwan, they simply wrote to my UK postal address. Usual rubbish about County Court Proceedings.

Egg went to the County Court previously even when they knew I was abroad and I had the Judgment set aside (This is for the Egg loan sold toCapQuest) so they appear to heave learned nothing from this. Also balance outstanding according to ARC is 505.34, whereas the Egg site says 504.34. Do I write to Egg or this company? Also, shall I use the bemused letter template or the first none-enforceable letter template? No CCA, no payments, etc.

I also asked for details of my credit card charges, again full payment was made and cashed. This information has still not been given to me and so I am unable to make a claim to get the charges refunded. I have written again to ask for this information.

MBNA/Abbey Credit card.

10521.89 pounds including interest and default charges.

Default charges above 12 pounds: I claimed 563.03 pounds using the full repayment calculator. They have written back saying that they “do not accept the OFT’s position on this” but have offered a “goodwill payment” of 221 pounds, which “effectively reduces all of the fees you have paid, to the reduced level of 12 pounds”. They enclosed a cheque for 221 pounds. However, even taking into account their offer of a refund down to 12 pounds, the total with interest suing the calculator spreadsheet comes to 295.05. Should I pursue the outstanding amount? If I cash their cheque, would that stop me from pursuing the difference?

SARS and CCA request from Lowell Financial. The debt was sold to Lowell some time ago. They sent the SARS info but it did not contain any proof of sale, such as a transfer document. They said there was a delay in getting the CCA from their client, Abbey. A letter dated 1st June 2009 from Lowell says that Abbey have advised Lowell’s that the CCA document is no longer available due to the length of time since the account was opened. Lowell say, “At this time we have closed our file and will not make any further contact with you concerning payment against this account unless the copy of the agreement is received at some point in the future from MBNA/Abbey.” What do i do next....nothing?

PPI reclaim request. They confirm that MBNA took over this credit card account in September 2001 when they were advised by Abbey that the account had active Payment Protection Cover dating back to the time of applying for the card. They also mentioned that they had written to me with changes in the insurance cover and change of insurers in May 2003 and November 2004. The policy remained on the account until the account defaulted and was sold to Lowell’s in September 2005. As I made no previous attempt to cancel the PPI they say that “I am satisfied that the cover was requested and that you have been covered in line with the terms and conditions of the policy. This is our final response. We will not enter into any further correspondence regarding this matter. We note that your complaint relates to a period outside the time-limits for referral to the financial ombudsman service who will be unable to deal with your complain unless there are exceptional circumstances”. Shall I chase further?

Egg personal loan.

2775.98 owing as of their last correspondence to me.

Despite a full SARS and CCA request, and yes, they cashed my cheque to pay for this and I have a copy of the statement proving this, they have never complied by sending the SARS info. However, I did get a copy of the CCA.

However, the CCA dated 2nd April 2003 is very similar to the one covering my other Egg loan sold to CapQuest, dated 26th May 2002. You can see from the secure messages that the CapQuest one is unenforceable, for reasons such as not showing the total charge for interest, not including all of the terms and conditions in a signed format and not including a cooling off period.

The same applies to this CCA (again, I can scan it to you if you need to see it). However, there are three differences.

Firstly, this latest agreement does not have on the front of it a stamp and various initials, whereas the previous agreement did. It has just a couple of initials on it in a space in the middle, not relating to anything. Secondly, this second agreement is very curious on the second, final page. There is a cut half way across the page and the top and bottom are different type fonts, clearly showing this is a cut and paste job. Thirdly, a middle section of the agreement appears to be missing when compared to the previous agreement.

Therefore, shall I dispute the account as unenforceable using the first letter template, similar to the letter I used for the previous CCA?

Many thanks.
__________________

HI, I just joined and immediately found what I was looking for, all the advise about CCA's-well done to the writer(s)!

To keep it brief, I am a UK guy but live and work in Taiwan.

In 2002, I took out an unsecured loan of 6000 pounds with Egg and defaulted when I went abroad to work. However, I made reduced payments and have done since then.

In my absence Egg did the dirty deed and issued a CCJ against me, which I had set aside once I found what had happened while I was away.

The debt was sold to CapQest about a year ago. I have been drip feeding them 1 pound a month, but the original outstanding debt of 2500 pouns, which was sold to CapQuest is now 4800 pounds, allegedly!

Anyway, I just got my CCA from them-it was like pulling teeth.

As far as I can see there are several faults. Firstly it is only two pages long and refers to terms and conditions. As I understand it, these should have been included in the original agreement and signed by me.

Secondly, I see no reference to a cooling off period.

Finaly, it does not mention the total credit to be charged.

Therefore, I consider it to be unenforceable and will write to them with the standard template letter(s) that you so excellently produced for such CCAs.

Question: I use a forwarding address in the UK and also my email for contact from them, but never used my address in Taiwan. Should I continue in this way, or would it help to give the Taiwanese address?

I copy the agreement below for you see.

Any comments would be welcome, especially as I am living and working in Taiwan.

[debtisbad]

Re: CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

Hi

This is what they are like, today I wrote a simple email to give a change of address in Taiwan and this is the abusive string of emails that I received back, plus my replies:

me: Please note my change of address:

XXXXXXXXXXXX (Obviously I cannot give that out on here).
Taiwan


Chinese version:

XXXXXX
My previous postal address was :
XXXXXXXXXXXX
The previous address is no longer in use and any post sent there will be returned. Please use the new Taiwan address above with immediate effect. Many thanks.

CapQuest: Mr X

At your request, all post relevant to the issue has been sent to the address in X. All post has been sent there up to and including 03.07.09 and since this was your instruction I assume you have received it.
Please advise why this address is no longer in use and your proposal for resolving this issue.

May I remind you that I only wish to receive emails from you that are relevant to this issue.

Me: I have clearly stated to you that I live in the republic of China and that all correspondence is to go to my address there, as advised to you in my previous email.

The UK address is no longer available.

CapQuest: I’m aware where you live but you clearly asked us to send the correspondence including copy documents to the UK address. We have that in writing from you. You have also emailed this instruction several times not only my dept but to the Q&A dept too therefore it is not unreasonable to ask why we can’t use this address now.

Also, I await a response from you on the other points I raised..

Me: I refer you to my previous email that clearly explains how to contact me if you wish to send letters rather than emails.

As to the "other points" am am unsure of what you mean.

Capquest: The other points are
What are you proposing to offer to resolve the issue which is your responsibility?
Confirm that I or any of my staff will not receive any other emails from that are not relevant to this issue


CapQuest (again): Please respond.

Me: 1. Which issue are you referring to?
2. Which emails are you referring to? Which staff are you referring to?

CapQuest: I do not intend to continue with this email chain and note you have chosen not to provide the info or acknowledge my request.
Finally the issue which is your responsibility is what we have been in communication with since Oct 2007 and the irrelevant emails with reference to twitter and face book.

me: 1. Which issue are you referring to?

capQuest: Thank you for your clrification.

All I did was send you an update on my mailing address, i did not exepct such a series of emails from you.

I can respond, given that you have clarified your earlier emails, as I truly did not know what you were referring to.

Contrary to what you say, I did send you an email on X clarifying my position, I quote: "Dear X

Please find attached of a copy of a letter being sent to CapQuest debt Recovery Ltd by recorded delivery today, X."

The letter was also received and signed for by a CapQuest staff member.

With regards to social networking emails, these are sent by an automatic system. I suggest that you us e a spam protector if you get any of these, but I am sure that this is a minor incident. You could also block the address.

I understand from your email that you will not be emailing any further.

As advised earlier, there is a new postal address for your convenience.

CapQuest: Please refer to my previous request so as I can pass to the relevant dept.

What is your proposal to progress and put closure to the issue? Please indicate whether or not you are going to address this.

me: As I explained in my previous email to you only a few minutes ago, my position was made extremely clear in an email sent to you on X, also the original letter was sent by recorded delivery to CapQuest. Perhaps you did not read the letter when it arrivedt?

CapQuest: Your letter was read and we responded in accordance with your request including sending the documents to your UK address. Please refer to your email requesting we do that.
We now await your proposal and response to our completing your request.

Me: My proposal is clearly detailed in the letter.

CapQuest: Thank you. If you mean the goodwill gesture, we have already advised that we will not accept.

Please refer to your email X where you acknowledged and agreed what was expected and refer to our previous correspondence (you confirmed receipt of these from your UK address) where our expectations are clear. Now that we have provided all documents please advise how you wish to proceed.
I await you response and proposal.

Me: Actually, I was referring to the whole body of the letter.

CapQuest: We are achieving nothing with this chain. I have been reasonable with my requests for info all of which have been done to try and help you. Your responses to me have been noted and filed for future reference.
Your new address is noted on our systems and all our correspondence will be sent there as requested. With immediate effect and for security reasons please respond in writing only.

me: X 2009


Formal Complaint
Letter before Action

Dear X,

Account In Dispute: X

With reference to my previous letters, I wish to draw you attention to your company's lack of compliance with my legal request.

On X I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8.
You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on X.

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.

As you may not be aware , failure to comply with this request within 12 working days renders the alleged debt UNENFORCEABLE in law.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a compliant credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
* may not add further interest or any charges to the account.
* may not pass the account to a third party.
* may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.
* may not issue a default notice related to the account.

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that your continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40, Protection from harassment Act 1997 section 3 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines.

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.
You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you would prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I await your rapid response by post.

Further comments in BLUE

Ps I'll pay them a visit on your behalf if you'd like as their office is only up the road from me, but last time I said I'd do that they went all panicy on me..

[debtisbad]

Re: CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

Hi Wendy B

I note your comment about not being able to go down the CCA route and get card charges refunded also. However, Abbey just sent me a cheque for a couple of hundered pounds or so, refunding charges down to 12 pounds each. However, the debt had been sold to lowlee's who just wrote to say that there is no copy of the CCA in existance as it is too old and they have written off the debt, which is just over 10 thousand pounds. Do I still cash the cheque, or even chase Abbey for a full refund including the 12 pound fee for each one? Thanks. A

Just another thought, are you planning to come back to the UK at some point, if ever, and can you see yourself ever needing/wanting credit in UK? Because no doubt with all this going on your credit file will be shot to pieces, late markers, defaults etc. Which will stay there until satisfied or 6 years. So if you will be needing credit here at any pint, it will be worth getting it all sorted out.

PPI, bank charges, CCA, and CC charges should be tackled separately as different criteria apply to each one, and some are easier to get back than others. Credit card charges are the most straightforward, IMO, but if you go the CCA route then you can't get the charges back. You need to weigh up how much the charges are in relation to the total debt before you decide which way to play it.
Bank charges are covered by the OFTcase and waiver for the forseeable future.
PPI can be straightforward, and if you have evidence of a phone call which clearly made you an unsuitable candidate then that might be fairly easy too. But again I'm not sure if you could get the PPI back if you went down the CCA route.

[WendyB]

Re: CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

Well thats a result then isn't it

[debtisbad]

Re: CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

Hi Wendy

Yes, great result!

Thanks so much for your help and the rest of the team. I will make a donation very soon to the site.

One tiny question.

Abbey have sent me a cheque for GBP221 for reclaimed bank charges.

This does not include, however a refund of the GBP12, just the difference between the higher charge and the 12 quid.

Is it worth pursuing the 12 pounds as well, or would i be being greedy? Also how would I request the full payment?

Many thanks.

A

Well thats a result then isn't it

[debtisbad]

Re: CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

2) Egg credit card. 584.79 outstanding as of today. This appears to be frozen and reduces as and when I make payments. PPI refund applied for and recorded voicemail they sent me shows clearly a girl selling the PPI to my when i declared that I was abroad, so I have applied for a refund, letter sent 2 days ago.

I have requested listing of charges over 12 pounds and await their reply. Equally, awaiting CCA and DPA info.


You can claim ALL charges back not just those exceeding £12.

Did you do a SAR (subject access request)? This would have then given you all your statements plus info they have on you and should include the phone call re the PPI.

Getting statements out of Egg is proving difficult. I first wrote to them in March and included a cheque for 10 pounds which was cashed. However, I still have no statements or SARS info back from them.

Having chased again today by secure messaging, they are now saying they cannot sent to an address abroad. Is that true? I can still get the whole lot delivered to the UK and forwarded by me but from the secure emails from them, it is quite clear that they are trying to frustrate the whole process.

Equally, I requested a copy of the CCA, which also has not arrived, although the cheque for one pound was cashed in early June.

As I only owe 504 pounds on the account, the refunded credit card charges would pay most of this off. Alternatively, without the CCA the account is in dispute and none collectable anyway. I have Egg card from this era and I suspect mine will be an unenforecable agreement.

[debtisbad]

Re: CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

I am delighted with the help I have got on here.

I had 4 debts and have the following outcomes:

1. Abbey/MBNA did not keep records of the credit card and could not supply a CCA. They have written off the debt.

2. CapQuest sent an unenforceable CCA and sent a letter to me admitting that they cannot enforce it.

3. Egg credit card supplied an unenforcebale CCA.

4. Egg personal loan supplied an unenforecable CCA.

Either way, I work and live abroad and they cannot chase me through the County Courts, even if they tried. I have also received a PPI refund from Egg and a credit card charge refund from Abbey.

Therefore, I have closed all contact with all of them and will disappear into the sunset.

I am so pleased with your help that i have made a donation to your site.

I was also asked by a member of the site team to give a brief summary of what happened.

The 4 debts go back several years. I started to work abroad, Egg found out and cancelled my credit card, despite the fact that it was always paid on time and was up to date. In fact, I had just paid back 5000 pounds, after having it on an interest free offer for 6 months.

Shortly afterwards the newspapers reported the fact that egg was getting rid of unprofitable customers i.e. ones who used the card's benefits and paid it off fully. I was one of those people.

This was like a pack of cards falling, as when they stopped the card it affected the four credit agreements mentioned above.

Nevertheless, being the reasonable person that I am, I sent lower payments each month only to be hounded by dirty tricks. These included, but are not limited to:

Egg, knowing i was abroad, took a County court summons against me that they won by default. When I found out what had happened, I had the judgement set aside. They STILL send letters threatening the same.

Egg sold me a PPI policy on the card account. i just successfully claimed the premiums back from them. They sent me a transcript of the sales conversation in which I clearly stated that i worked abroad and the insurance does not cover you for that.

Lowells, on behalf of MBNA/Abbey tried to get back their money and kept adding interest. as I was abroad , I was still paying monthly to MBNA. When I wrote to Lowells asking if the money was forwarded to them, they said it was up to me to prove it. Actually, I did, but they could easily have confirmed it instead of acting like s**ts.

So when I contacted legal beagles, they explained to me how to reclaim my credit card charges (recieved with thanks from Abbey, still waiting on Egg) and PPI insurance (refund received from Egg).

However, the killer for me was when I used the templates letters for the CCAs. in all 4 cases there were faults. Lowells said Abbey/MBNA never kept records going back to pre 2000 when i took out the card and said that all collections would cease.

CapQuest, trying to collect my Egg loan account they had purchased, wrote to concede that the so called CCA they had sent me was not a true copy of the original.

The other two were missing a whole section of prescribed terms and conditions.

In summary, this means that all 4 agreements were basically invalid and unenforceable. All collections efforts were acting unlawfully.

Some people say that you should keep paying even if the CCA is unanforecable. It's a personal choice, but i disagree. in my book, no CCA or an unenforceable CCA means "bye bye".

The sting in the tail for them all is that i am abroad and cannot take court action against me. Even if they do the same dirty trick as Egg and tr it on when I am knowingly abroad, I shall have the judgement removed, just like before.

So what is my advice? You can get all the info you need here, you do not need to pay a lawyer or claims company. Check you CCA (if they send it). All three of my Egg CCAs were incorrectly drawn up and the MBNA/Abbe one was lost.

I cannot guarantee it for everyone, but it appears on the threads that this is the case for most Egg agreements and also many others prior to 2007.

Don't let them intimidate you. CapQuest have one employee, private message me if you want her name, who emailed me no less than 10 times in a half day asking for money, even after they had written and admitted they did not supply a true copy of the original CCA. She is lucky that I didn't report her dispicable actions to the authorities.

The key to all of this lies within the CCAs, so many are flawed, so get your pen and paper out and ask for your CCAs, using the template letters and guidance on here.

Once again, thanks to legal beagles for saving me 17 000 pounds.

[enaid]

Re: CCA unenforceable+I live in Taiwan!

And thank you for updating us on the outcome, always nice to here the ending especially when it's as good as yours.
Enaid x